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MnLakeBum

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Many Americans spend too much of their income on cars. I saw a lot of that from my neighbors living in California for 20 years. We always had the least expensive cars in our neighborhood until we paid off our house at age 47.

Inflation is a huge problem and fuel expenses are a big part of the inflation story. Our Bronco is costing $27 in fuel for every 100 miles we drive it which has added up to $500 per month the last 3 months. This weekend we didnā€™t take it to our cabin as it costs $81 to make the trip compared to our 2015 Tesla that needs only $8 worth of electricity to cover the same 300 miles.
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Sherminiator

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A square job and a capable truck shouldn't be an aspiration, it should be the norm.
The problem is defining that-to some people it means one thing and to others it means something else.

Some people are basically content with a few year old car that is new them and living in an apartment or whatever.

Others want the latest and greatest and a huge house and hustle their asses off work wise.

And there are lots of shades in-between.

But people also have to be realistic with their money. I don't go on vacation that much or costs that much, so I "save" money that way that goes to a car payment or something around the house.

The economy goes in cycles-what is going to happen/happening now hasn't happened since 2008 or so-will it get as "bad" as what happened then? Prob not/hopefully.

I know I'm in "good" shape job wise-Investments not as much, but they will recover as time goes on.
 

vrtical

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As to trying to understand everyone else, I'll just point out the fact that financial periodicals routinely run surveys/articles that >half the population can not handle a $400 unexpected expense, yet most people are spending money like the world will end before the bill arrives. :)
Last month I had an unexpected bill. I had to replace my house HVAC system to the tune of $13k. In general I dont think people realize how prices have shifted in the last 2 years.
 

Sherminiator

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Last month I had an unexpected bill. I had to replace my house HVAC system to the tune of $13k. In general I dont think people realize how prices have shifted in the last 2 years.
Right-

I got estimates for my HVAC pre covid and it was around 10K and when we got it done, it went up to $13K last year.

Here is an even more stupid example-coffee creamer...its gone up 1/3 its price from $6 to $9 bucks in its largest size that my house uses.

Meat prices are crazy too-a decent cut of meat two years ago was about $13 per pound..its 27 now and the cuts are smaller.
 

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MadMan4BamaNATL

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The problem is defining that-to some people it means one thing and to others it means something else.

Some people are basically content with a few year old car that is new them and living in an apartment or whatever.

Others want the latest and greatest and a huge house and hustle their asses off work wise.

And there are lots of shades in-between.

But people also have to be realistic with their money. I don't go on vacation that much or costs that much, so I "save" money that way that goes to a car payment or something around the house.

The economy goes in cycles-what is going to happen/happening now hasn't happened since 2008 or so-will it get as "bad" as what happened then? Prob not/hopefully.

I know I'm in "good" shape job wise-Investments not as much, but they will recover as time goes on.
A normal person with a normal salary used to be able to have the latest and greatest, so I said earlier, it shouldnā€™t be reserved just for the rich.

Wanting a damn Ford isnā€™t any kind of luxury, so fine if the BMWs and Benz are for the so called rich.

Having a decently equipped F-150 or Bronco (not a Raptor) should be within reach of every person in this country with a decent job (less than $70K) without stretching and getting criticized for wanting or owning it.

This has been my only point.
 

Sherminiator

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A normal person with a normal salary used to be able to have the latest and greatest, so I said earlier, it shouldnā€™t be reserved just for the rich.

Wanting a damn Ford isnā€™t any kind of luxury, so fine if the BMWs and Benz are for the so called rich.

Having a decently equipped F-150 or Bronco (not a Raptor) should be within reach of every person in this country with a decent job (less than $70K) without stretching and getting criticized for wanting or owning it.

This has been my only point.
But that is the problem-that is YOUR definition of what someone should have.

Once again define decently equipped...a base Bronco might be the ticket for some people others its not good enough.

Using that as a metric, both a Base model Bronco and F-150 start at 30K. The average cost of a new car has been over 32K since 2015! Back 20 years ago the starting price of a "luxury" car was in the 30-40K range. The average cost of new car is $47K as of 2022.

The Latest and Greatest has ALWAS costed more then what the average person could "afford"...that is why they are called LUXURIES.

I think your Conflating luxury and needs.

Why are car costs so high? Because people are overbuying vehicles based on wants instead of needs and extended financing. There are perfectly "practical" vehicles that are around the 30K range (I'm thinking decently equipped Escape/Bronco Sport/Maverick) that would meet the needs of 90-95% of buyers out there.
 
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Carolina Jim

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Why are car costs so high?
My 2 cents:

Similar to "one-size-fits-all" clothing, today's vehicles are ONE SILVER BULLET does it all...from a quick trip to grab a 6-pack...to hauling 8 kids to the sports match...to 500-mile round trips to the shore. Neighborhood jaunts @40mph...to dodging semis at 80mph. And all with surround-sound, gps, a dozen other nannies, and crash-ratings to survive the apocalypse.

One of the common concepts I've read in 'futuring' articles is evolution toward task-specific vehicles.
 

Gizmo

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I would guess that 75% of the population is ignorant to what interest rates are and how loan structure can effect the total amount they pay on something.

People thought we were nuts going to a 15 year mortgage but we went from paying close to $140K in interest on our initial 30 year mortgage to right around $30K on our current mortgage structure.

Blows my mind that there is now a 40 year mortgage option where the first ten years are interest only with the interest rate locked in for the entire loan at the time of loan generation. A lot of people are gonna get wrecked by that structure.
Reminds me of the 08-09 market crash, how quickly some forget
 

Sherminiator

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My 2 cents:

Similar to "one-size-fits-all" clothing, today's vehicles are ONE SILVER BULLET does it all...from a quick trip to grab a 6-pack...to hauling 8 kids to the sports match...to 500-mile round trips to the shore. Neighborhood jaunts @40mph...to dodging semis at 80mph. And all with surround-sound, gps, a dozen other nannies, and crash-ratings to survive the apocalypse.

One of the common concepts I've read in 'futuring' articles is evolution toward task-specific vehicles.
You are 100% correct-that is why Trucks and C/SUVs are so popular with buyers.

But why is this the case and it pours water on the task specific vehicles in the future? Because vehicles are so damn expensive to start with.

The Sedan form factor, which has been so popular over the past 70 year or so is dying off because all it is good at is moving passengers and maybe getting decent/good gas mileage. What happens if you need to buy a microwave (I had this personally happen to me when I had my Mustang-Had to call my then GF now wife, to get it home LOL) or get lawn stuff from Home Depot?

A crew cab truck/SUV/CUV can haul around your family and get almost as good MPGs as a Sedan these days. Manufactures like them because they haven't become commodities yet like sedans have and command a pricing that helps increase their profits.

The future trend I've read was ride sharing or not owning a vehicle and having lets say a Pod like vehicle come pick you up and get you places. Of course this was pre covid and I think that is going to be an extremely hard sell to the American public...but the younger generations that aren't as interested in getting a car, it might be appealing, so we might be 20-30 years out before that happens. But also it sounds like a complete cluster requiring 2-3x the amount of vehicles on the road to make everyone happy.
 

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Carolina Jim

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The future trend I've read was ride sharing or not owning a vehicle
As they say across the pond, "different horses for different courses". I expect lifestyle differences in urban/suburban/rural settings will become much more pronounced in an energy-scarce future.
 

Mud Dawg

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A normal person with a normal salary used to be able to have the latest and greatest, so I said earlier, it shouldnā€™t be reserved just for the rich.

Wanting a damn Ford isnā€™t any kind of luxury, so fine if the BMWs and Benz are for the so called rich.

Having a decently equipped F-150 or Bronco (not a Raptor) should be within reach of every person in this country with a decent job (less than $70K) without stretching and getting criticized for wanting or owning it.

This has been my only point.
The CEO of GM is on the record as saying that the only factor that enters into (at least GM's) vehicle pricing is "what people are willing to pay." If people convince themselves that they need the latest and greatest and they are willing to take out a 6 year loan to buy it....prices will go up. The people selling the cars and making the loans absolutely don't care about the remainder of your financial situation if they are satisfied there is a decent chance you will make the payments you've signed up for.

Like I said above, they will never stop thinking of ways to separate you from your money. Regardless of what a person who makes $70K should be able to afford, every person has to stop and consider the big picture if they want to avoid the dynamics that keep people broke.
 

MadMan4BamaNATL

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But that is the problem-that is YOUR definition of what someone should have.

Once again define decently equipped...a base Bronco might be the ticket for some people others its not good enough.

Using that as a metric, both a Base model Bronco and F-150 start at 30K. The average cost of a new car has been over 32K since 2015! Back 20 years ago the starting price of a "luxury" car was in the 30-40K range. The average cost of new car is $47K as of 2022.

The Latest and Greatest has ALWAS costed more then what the average person could "afford"...that is why they are called LUXURIES.

I think your Conflating luxury and needs.

Why are car costs so high? Because people are overbuying vehicles based on wants instead of needs and extended financing. There are perfectly "practical" vehicles that are around the 30K range (I'm thinking decently equipped Escape/Bronco Sport/Maverick) that would meet the needs of 90-95% of buyers out there.
I assure you that i'm not "conflating" anything and think that both my education and job show that I understand the dynamics of economics more than most; much more actually.

You're also intentionally making a circular argument, which is something done only for the purpose of argument. When I say, "nicely equipped", I"m speaking in general terms on purpose; it's in the perspective of the reader. However, there is a "normal" Ford has tried to make that level as dynamic as possible with the Bronco, but there still is one; it's called Mid. You may not agree with what or where "Mid" is, but Ford has done it for you.

My Bronco build is in the clouds, so my build is definitely considered above average; actually, it's called "Lux" and it probably better matches my income. However, most people aren't at my income, nor should most people need to be to get a decently equipped Bronco to go off-roading on the exact same trails that I will run.

I remember when a base F-150 was around $19K or so. Sure it was bare, but it was ok. Add $5-$7K in options and you'd have a nice truck. Now, as you've pointed to, $30K is that same bare bones truck from maybe 20 years ago. Incomes haven't increased with that level of inflation, so this is the problem that I've pointed out along with the problems this new reality has created.
 

guest001

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The future trend I've read was ride sharing or not owning a vehicle and having lets say a Pod like vehicle come pick you up and get you places. Of course this was pre covid and I think that is going to be an extremely hard sell to the American public...but the younger generations that aren't as interested in getting a car,
Anecdotal evidence collected from talking to people with teenagers suggests that there is a growing trend amongst teenagers to not even learn to drive a car. With the availability of ride share companies (uber, lyft, etc) the amount of people actually buying cars may decrease in the future.
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