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why are we blaming Ford and not the dealers?

PowPow

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ok, 1st, sorry for the long post.

2nd, I've seen this forum blowing up over the weekend over this whole allocation ordeal, but I'd like to apply some logic to it, and not just point fingers. I know this is probably going to stir up some emotions, but I'm going to play a little devil's advocate.

Here we go!

I don't understand why people are blaming this all on Ford and not the dealers.

Hear me out.

Dealers are in the business of making money. Right? These 'deals' aren't out of the goodness of their hearts. They're making money. I don't know for fact, but at least in my simple mind, if I sell 10 broncos at $1000 profit, or if I sell 30 broncos at $500 profit, I'm making more money by sheer volume. (And these dealers increased by much more than triple from what I've read) Nevermind whatever else they're making on whatever deals they have with whatever banks on doing financing through them. Also selling trade-ins, extended warranties, insurance, etc...

Dealers were aware of allocations. This isn't new to them. They tried gaming the system and Ford didn't play.

The dealerships used people and passed it off as 'deals'. And some people probably saved money, it was a two way street for a bit. But now dealerships are trying to blame Ford. Bc now they're probably not going to make the margins they were forecasting. And they're trying to use this forum to get people on their side.

plus how about the innocent local, original reservation holder, at these dealers? They could've been 15 or 20 in line with like a Sept 2020 reservation, but bc of everyone flocking they got pushed into what could now be 2023. But no one cares about them, right? Just as long as you were getting a good deal. That's all that mattered.

if everyone ordered from their local dealer and other's didn't boost their numbers, allocations wouldn't even be a problem. In fact, Ford has over 3000 dealerships, I'm willing to bet at the other 3000 dealerships, allocation isn't a problem and they'll fill every order they have next year. (quick math, 150,000 orders into 3000 dealerships in only 50 per)(yes I know not all things are created equal, but it gives you an idea, or should how the distribution organically falls into place)

If you're super upset about possibly getting pushed into 2023, then just change your order to a different dealer. I'm sure once most folks (not all, before anyone starts attacking) actually did some math on how much they're saving compared to how much they're spending to drive half way across the country, they'll realize the savings wasn't there to begin with.

Or maybe all this is just the cynic in me.

But if I were one of those people, I'd be pissed at the dealer who promised me something they can't deliver on. The dealerships own the relationship with Ford. Not us. Maybe they should've ran their business model by Ford first to see if i they'd be able to meet demand? Before they went making promises they can't keep.

we were all quick to blame Ford for their supplier Webasto. Shouldn't we then blame the dealers for their supplier Ford?

I've seen the statement 'ford is catering to the big dealers'. Why wouldn't they? Those are the dealers that sell the most Fords year over year. And last time I checked Ford is in the business of selling cars... After all this reservation craziness dies down, these small dealers will go back to selling like 50 Broncos a year, if that. Why should Ford change their business model to cater to a small few that exploited a loophole? Again, allocations aren't new, and they exist for a reason.

Now, with that said, Ford isn't totally innocent here. They tried the Tesla sales model, but didn't account for the dealer loophole and didn't expect some dealerships to do what they're doing. So while a lot on here think it's a big deal, it's maybe, what? 1% (if that) of all orders that will fall into 2023. You're pissed, but Ford isn't losing any sleep over it.

And hey, good for these dealers. They saw a loophole and tried to exploit it to make money. But it caught up to them... let's not make them into heroes, and hold them accountable.

Or hey, maybe I'm wrong and these dealerships did run their business model by Ford and Ford blessed it, and now Ford is going back on their word. However, I doubt that'll be the case. If it is, then I'll gladly eat crow. but none of us will ever really know if that's the truth or not.
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Snowdogyyz

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Based on my reading of the hundreds of posts on it, people are blaming huge dealers AND Ford for this debacle. This is Fords baby- they control the roll out and launch and even some of the biggest fan boys on here can now see the incompetence of Ford in this matter. They’ve backtracked on promises to please their biggest dealers- early reservers be damned. You can’t sugar coat or give passes. It is what it is.
 

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if everyone ordered from their local dealer and other's didn't boost their numbers, allocations wouldn't even be a problem. In fact, Ford has over 3000 dealerships, I'm willing to bet at the other 3000 dealerships, allocation isn't a problem and they'll fill every order they have next year. (quick math, 150,000 orders into 3000 dealerships in only 50 per)(yes I know not all things are created equal, but it gives you an idea, or should how the distribution organically falls into place)

If local dealers knew what they were selling I believe the majority would be ordering from locals and not big-name franchises like the one's existed here.

When I ordered mine, I called every dealer in San Diego County, believe it or not, only 2 out of 6 or 7 know what the Bronco was, no one wanted to commit to any price, the majority in California at first wanted to charge ADM, so why we blamed FORD? we do because they did a huge disservice to those great dealers who were there for us the customers and instead will be rewarding those with $20k or $30k ADMs by giving them as many cars as others, those who give your car to the highest bidder without you knowing.

Creating a reservation system then not following with that system, that's why we blame Ford.
 

RagnarKon

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The problem is Ford changed the rules at halftime.

They released an allocation formula for the Bronco in 2020/2021, and dealers altered their sales strategies to maximize their allocations. Then Ford comes along in 2022 and changes the allocation formula. Under normal circumstances that would be no problem... just change your sales strategies.

BUT... Ford couldn't deliver most of the 2021 orders. So now you have orders that the dealers themselves sold back in 2020 and 2021 that are impacted by a new allocation formula that wasn't even known until after those orders were placed. There is just no way for the dealers to plan for that.

Are the dealers 100% blameless? No... if you look at Ford's traditional allocation formulas, it is usually based on the total number of vehicle sales. The dealers should know this and they should alter their sales strategies accordingly. But the reservation is a relatively new system, so it's hard to know exactly what Ford will do. In my opinion this is like 90% on Ford themselves and 10% on the dealer community.
 

balucipher

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Ford in 2020: Trust the reservation system process, we'll build reservations before dealer stock. We love our reservation holders and you can definitely choose whichever one of our 3000+ dealers you like!

Ford through 2020 and 2021: We love our reservation holders. Hey media, look we have over 150k+ reservations! Here's hammocks and stickers for our valued reservation holders. Hang in there!

Ford last week: Okay yeah reservations were cool but you should have known that we have obligations to our largest dealers and we're enforcing an allocation system. Your reservation is nice but we're giving your exact build to this giant dealer to sell on their lot first because your specific dealership isn't as high value of a dealership to us. You should have known this and you should violently kill yourself for not knowing this. Dealers who can't even come close to matching our name match policy are forgiven and we're relaxing that rule despite other dealers hitting 100% name match. Stay pumped!

You can see why people are upset.
 

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Dealers were aware of allocations. This isn't new to them. They tried gaming the system and Ford didn't play.
I'll be honest, I stopped reading right here.

Ford said IN WRITING that they would build reservation units BEFORE any dealer stock units. It was on their website.

Yes, the Granger/Chapman/SACs are gaming the system because they want to make more money. It's a business. They also had the novel idea that they could use Ford's guarantee's to their end users AND their 2021 allocation formula to create a system where the dealerships make more money WHILE saving their customers money. That's called smart business.

"When dealerships compete, customers win" is the oft cited quote relating to why the dealership model still exists (don't mind the fact they have a powerful lobbying group fighting to make laws friendly to their business. If customers were really winning they wouldn't need laws to protect their model to begin with). What we have here is an example of 3 dealers ACTUALLY competing, and their competition throwing a fit.

Why not blame the dealers? They simply created a program based on what Ford said.

Why blame Ford? They've gone back on their word. Pretty simple.
 

XCR440

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Some issues on here I'd like to comment on.

It's been being said that this is to hurt the small dealer, and this isn't true. Allocation is normally done this way and yes, big dealers will get more, but they sell more and sell more units that aren't hard to get. If a vehicle has history, Ford usually uses sales history (60%) and availability (40%), but since there was no sales history for Bronco, this doesn't work. What this means is all dealers won't have enough Broncos, big dealer might get 200, small dealer might get 20, but big dealer could sell 2,000, small dealer 200, still the same mix, neither has an advantage over the other. It often appears this way since the larger dealers sell off the lot where as the smaller dealers tend to be more into selling orders and will presell. After the chip shortages, I expect this difference will narrow some as most large dealers are learning how to sell orders.

One place the small dealer has a disadvantage is in the math, rounding effects small numbers more than large ones, still makes the difference on 1 unit if you get rounded down, but one on 20 is a lot worse than 1 on 200.

As to the Bronco Sport portion, this was announced last year when Bronco Sport came out and was an incentive to push them, at that time no one realized the hit the Sport would be, but we were told that they would count toward 22 Bronco allocations, so this has been ongoing. Not really much a dealer can do to gain here as Bronco Sports have been allocated and hard to get since launch. They do fill sold orders without allocation, so a dealer can gain slightly. But it was promised last year so nothing new here except now there is a % to go with it.

I think you'll find that other than a couple dealers this allocation system will have very little effect in delivery time than if Ford went in reservation order. Yes, if a dealer went out and conquest tons of sales and they are in a jam with this system, on the opposite side, some small dealers didn't accept reservations, and therefore got no allocations for 21, now for 22, they will get some as they should, they have to pay for the tools and equipment to repair them, they should get to sell them. Granted both examples are likely a number of dealers you can count on your fingers.

I know this will upset some people, but at the same time, is it reasonable if you're a dealer that sold 500 Fords total last year to expect to get 1000 Broncos this year? Also, I haven't read a Ford sales and service agreement in quite some time, but it used to also require that you have service to support your sales, meaning you should have the bays and techs to match this number, and if still the case, I don't know what the legal issues for Ford would be if they allowed a dealer to get a crazy number of Broncos, but I suspect there are some.

That said I understand the complaints with the reservation systems presentation on launch, so I see both sides, and in my mind, both are right, but I think many on here only see things their way and I'd hope they'd understand a little better even if they don't like or agree with it, and for 98% of buyers it will make little difference in when they get their Bronco.

As for 2023, I expect allocations to turn into normal vehicle where they do a 60/40 (or another %, this often changes based on the market) split based on sales and availability as was traditional, since there will be sales history at that point, but this is just my guess, then whenever Ford gets caught up, Bronco to go to OTD where a retail order automatically generates an allocation (like Escape/Edge/Bronco Sport and 22 Explorer), but I'm afraid this might be many years down the road.
 

Tonka1

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Ford is to blame because they changed the rules after 1.5 years of misleading consumers that they would generally build in order of reservation time stamp. Ford is capable of satisfying all reservation holders next year with the exception of special tops. Ford will be building dealer stock for several years before filling current reservations according to recent estimates. Im well aware of allocations and was skeptical of the advertised deals but unfortunately actually believed that Ford would honor what they said numerous times to members of this forum. From my perspective, you're critiquing me for not having the hindsight of knowing that Ford would never actual do what they promised. Granger has developed a loyal following on this forum and has earned my business.
 

WatchYourSix

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@PowPow I see what you're getting at but I'm not sure the dealerships "promised" anything. The good dealerships have tried to provide as much transparency as possible but this whole process has been rather opaque from the jump.
 

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ok, 1st, sorry for the long post.

2nd, I've seen this forum blowing up over the weekend over this whole allocation ordeal, but I'd like to apply some logic to it, and not just point fingers. I know this is probably going to stir up some emotions, but I'm going to play a little devil's advocate.

Here we go!

I don't understand why people are blaming this all on Ford and not the dealers.

Hear me out.

Dealers are in the business of making money. Right? These 'deals' aren't out of the goodness of their hearts. They're making money. I don't know for fact, but at least in my simple mind, if I sell 10 broncos at $1000 profit, or if I sell 30 broncos at $500 profit, I'm making more money by sheer volume. (And these dealers increased by much more than triple from what I've read) Nevermind whatever else they're making on whatever deals they have with whatever banks on doing financing through them. Also selling trade-ins, extended warranties, insurance, etc...

Dealers were aware of allocations. This isn't new to them. They tried gaming the system and Ford didn't play.

The dealerships used people and passed it off as 'deals'. And some people probably saved money, it was a two way street for a bit. But now dealerships are trying to blame Ford. Bc now they're probably not going to make the margins they were forecasting. And they're trying to use this forum to get people on their side.

plus how about the innocent local, original reservation holder, at these dealers? They could've been 15 or 20 in line with like a Sept 2020 reservation, but bc of everyone flocking they got pushed into what could now be 2023. But no one cares about them, right? Just as long as you were getting a good deal. That's all that mattered.

if everyone ordered from their local dealer and other's didn't boost their numbers, allocations wouldn't even be a problem. In fact, Ford has over 3000 dealerships, I'm willing to bet at the other 3000 dealerships, allocation isn't a problem and they'll fill every order they have next year. (quick math, 150,000 orders into 3000 dealerships in only 50 per)(yes I know not all things are created equal, but it gives you an idea, or should how the distribution organically falls into place)

If you're super upset about possibly getting pushed into 2023, then just change your order to a different dealer. I'm sure once most folks (not all, before anyone starts attacking) actually did some math on how much they're saving compared to how much they're spending to drive half way across the country, they'll realize the savings wasn't there to begin with.

Or maybe all this is just the cynic in me.

But if I were one of those people, I'd be pissed at the dealer who promised me something they can't deliver on. The dealerships own the relationship with Ford. Not us. Maybe they should've ran their business model by Ford first to see if i they'd be able to meet demand? Before they went making promises they can't keep.

we were all quick to blame Ford for their supplier Webasto. Shouldn't we then blame the dealers for their supplier Ford?

I've seen the statement 'ford is catering to the big dealers'. Why wouldn't they? Those are the dealers that sell the most Fords year over year. And last time I checked Ford is in the business of selling cars... After all this reservation craziness dies down, these small dealers will go back to selling like 50 Broncos a year, if that. Why should Ford change their business model to cater to a small few that exploited a loophole? Again, allocations aren't new, and they exist for a reason.

Now, with that said, Ford isn't totally innocent here. They tried the Tesla sales model, but didn't account for the dealer loophole and didn't expect some dealerships to do what they're doing. So while a lot on here think it's a big deal, it's maybe, what? 1% (if that) of all orders that will fall into 2023. You're pissed, but Ford isn't losing any sleep over it.

And hey, good for these dealers. They saw a loophole and tried to exploit it to make money. But it caught up to them... let's not make them into heroes, and hold them accountable.

Or hey, maybe I'm wrong and these dealerships did run their business model by Ford and Ford blessed it, and now Ford is going back on their word. However, I doubt that'll be the case. If it is, then I'll gladly eat crow. but none of us will ever really know if that's the truth or not.
You exceeded your word allotment...

Please read the many pages of the forums on this subject and not try to make a new strawman argument.

This is about FORD changing the MY22 allocation calculation to favor mega dealers. It's NOTHING to do specifically with Granger, but SPECIFICALLY with ALL small dealers around the country getting the collective shaft. -Period!

No need to make up fake arguments to try and skew a single dealership that has been the most up front about allocations and customer expectations from the start.

This is ALL on Ford. -period.
 

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Ford in 2020: Trust the reservation system process, we'll build reservations before dealer stock. We love our reservation holders and you can definitely choose whichever one of our 3000+ dealers you like!

Ford through 2020 and 2021: We love our reservation holders. Hey media, look we have over 150k+ reservations! Here's hammocks and stickers for our valued reservation holders. Hang in there!

Ford last week: Okay yeah reservations were cool but you should have known that we have obligations to our largest dealers and we're enforcing an allocation system. Your reservation is nice but we're giving your exact build to this giant dealer to sell on their lot first because your specific dealership isn't as high value of a dealership to us. You should have known this and you should violently kill yourself for not knowing this. Dealers who can't even come close to matching our name match policy are forgiven and we're relaxing that rule despite other dealers hitting 100% name match. Stay pumped!

You can see why people are upset.
Well stated!

I'll also add that dealers were incentivized to convert reservations to orders. I forgot the exact wording but if a dealership pushed more Broncos through their ordering system, they had a higher percentage of allocation.

So... they did just that. Many even converted people's orders without their consent to live up to that. There's no wrongdoing in what Granger did in my honest opinion
 
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Monster1926

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Initially it was supposed to go by reservation and availiable commodities. Ford threw in the allocation formula once the dealership council went crying to them. I am assuming because of the deals that Granger, Chapman and Stevens offered to people. Essentially those dealerships cornered the market by offering the percentage under invoice. There’s zero incentive to stay with the dealer besides location convenience. Also add in the fact that ford let you could change dealerships. I completely feel that it’s unfair for the smaller dealerships. Take a dealership like AutoNation they’re going to have all the Broncos because they own a massive chain of stores.
 

Compta38

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Why are people on this board making threads kissing Ford's ass when at the end of the day the customer will be the one who suffers from this?

Ford were the ones that changes their allocation system between model years. Ford were the ones that said the would follow reservation timestamps.

Why is it so difficult to follow timestamp order if the parts are available? Why do people here support dealers getting stock units ahead of customers that reserved OVER ONE YEAR AGO?
 

Bradley Thornton

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Dude FORD told us we could use who we wanted and that we would get it based on when we placed our reservation. Now they are telling us this isn't true.

Now they are telling us not only can we not use the dealer we want but we have to hope the big dealer that we go with doesn't try and mark it up or steal it as we have seen some of these dealers do.

So I can use a Forum dealer that I get it $3k under price that I can trust (Was told I could get it based on timestamp) or I can hope the big dealer just gives me MSRP $3k More and hope they doesn't mark it up higher. You may say make them sign LOL why would they now they have you by the balls.

This is 100% wrong on FORDs end.
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