why are we blaming Ford and not the dealers?

[Bronco wannabe]

Sorry, it blows my mind that folks are ignoring what is right there in front of you. The post you're quoting from was from 2020, right from the beginning. So, this quote is from the beginning.

"Dealer allocation will depend on a retailer's market size, previous SUV sales performance, the number of reservations tied to their store and competitive off-road registrations in their market, LaNeve said."

So, nothing has changed. FROM THE BEGINNING, Ford said the allocation would be tied to market size and previous sales, as well as Bronco orders. You and others keep saying that Ford changed the allocation system, and they didn't. The best evidence is right in the quote that YOU posted. Again, you keep arguing with me, and every post you make supports my point. So, what are we actually discussing?

Listen, I'm not defending Ford. I'm not making excuses for Ford. Ford doesn't need me to defend them. I'm responding to incorrect information that is so easily thrown around on this forum. It seems as long as enough people say the same thing, it becomes fact, even if the information is incorrect. Consensus doesn't change fact.

I get it, people need to blow off steam. But frustrated venting also doesn't change fact, it's just frustrated venting. Seriously, I wish a whole bunch of you folks would cancel your Bronco orders since life is so bad for you and Ford is shitting on you. Why on earth would you buy anything from them? Move on. Let the rest of us get our Broncos.

I had several conversations with multiple dealers here way back letting them know what I was hearing from Ford and that I thought it would be a disservice to their customers when the real allocation number was going to be announced....and that was for the 2021 formula. I was told by them repeatedly that they expected their allocation for 2021 to be in the 4-500 range. I already knew that was never going to happen based on preliminary estimates Ford gave me very early on. And then the even better deals were offered further compounding the problem. I tried to have civil discussions with people and was basically told to worry about my own customers and they'd worry about theirs. True story.....

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[Wanted33]

Read this, and you'll see why me, and many others are pissed. Ford said, reserve your Bronco with any dealer, and we did. Ford said, we'll go by your date/time stamp, and we beleved them. Ford said we'll build your Bronco before any dealer stock, and we believed them. Supply constraints came along, and Ford told us you're Bronco may not be built by the time stamp but we will get everyone's Bronco by Q4 of '22 and we told Ford we understood. Ford said we have a problem with the MIC top, and if you change to a soft you could get your Bronco sooner. But we'll still get everyone's Bronco by Q4 of '22. Some did, some didn't, but we told Ford we understood. Saturday that all went to shit when Ford leaked the new allocation formula that favors mega dealer by giving them dealer stock before myself, and many more get our Broncos. Now, my October reservation that would have shown up by at least late summer of '22 will be a 2024 model, possible a 2025 model. Now you want to come along, and ask me why I'm pissed. Well, there ya go buddy, that's why.

 

[Wanted33]

Right. And 99% (if not more) will be.

Did those dealers check with Ford to make sure they could go forward with their business model? Sticking your head in the sand and hoping something works out isn't an excuse.

Henry Ford V is that you? Son, you need to understand the new allocation better before making a comment like that. Do you even realize that all of the reservations were made under the '21 allocation formula? Do you understand that Ford changed the formula for '22? I'm beginning to think not.

And one more question, What possible reasoning do you have to think my dealer would lie to me when he told me that my once '22 build date may now be a '24 build date. I can't think for the life of me what good it would be for him to tell me that, and it not be true.

 

[Bison]

Sorry, it blows my mind that folks are ignoring what is right there in front of you. The post you're quoting from was from 2020, right from the beginning. So, this quote is from the beginning.

"Dealer allocation will depend on a retailer's market size, previous SUV sales performance, the number of reservations tied to their store and competitive off-road registrations in their market, LaNeve said."

So, nothing has changed. FROM THE BEGINNING, Ford said the allocation would be tied to market size and previous sales, as well as Bronco orders. You and others keep saying that Ford changed the allocation system, and they didn't. The best evidence is right in the quote that YOU posted. Again, you keep arguing with me, and every post you make supports my point. So, what are we actually discussing?

Listen, I'm not defending Ford. I'm not making excuses for Ford. Ford doesn't need me to defend them. I'm responding to incorrect information that is so easily thrown around on this forum. It seems as long as enough people say the same thing, it becomes fact, even if the information is incorrect. Consensus doesn't change fact.

I get it, people need to blow off steam. But frustrated venting also doesn't change fact, it's just frustrated venting. Seriously, I wish a whole bunch of you folks would cancel your Bronco orders since life is so bad for you and Ford is shitting on you. Why on earth would you buy anything from them? Move on. Let the rest of us get our Broncos.

From September I believe it said not July 13th when reservations were placed so false not from the beginning. It also stated in the article 75% of the Broncos would be delivered in 2021 with the rest going into 2022. Mind Blown!! Facts my friend facts.

 

[Bison]

Read this, and you'll see why me, and many others are pissed. Ford said, reserve your Bronco with any dealer, and we did. Ford said, we'll go by your date/time stamp, and we beleved them. Ford said we'll build your Bronco before any dealer stock, and we believed them. Supply constraints came along, and Ford told us you're Bronco may not be built be the time stamp but we will get everyone's Bronco by Q4 of '22 and we told Ford we understood. Ford said we have a problem with the MIC top, and if you change to a soft you could get your Bronco sooner. But we'll still get everyone's Bronco by Q4 of '22. Some did, some didn't, but we told Ford we understood. Saturday that all went to shit when Ford leaked the new allocation formula that favors mega dealer by giving them dealer stock before I get my Bronco. Now, my October reservation that would have shown up by at least late summer of '22 will be a 2024 model, possible a 2025 model. Now you want to come along, and ask me why I'm pissed. Well, there ya go buddy, that's why.

Mind blown!!!

 

[cowman]

From September I believe it said not July 13th when reservations were placed so false not from the beginning. It also stated in the article 75% of the Broncos would be delivered in 2021 with the rest going into 2022. Mind Blown!! Facts my friend facts.

Mark LaNeve, Ford's vice president of U.S. marketing, sales and service, told Automotive News he initially expects "over 75 percent" of the roughly 165,000 refundable deposits will be converted to sales, although that conversion rate is likely to fall for customers who have to wait longer for their Bronco. He said Ford will "definitely" be filling reservations into 2022.

Would be converted to sales not delivered.... he even states they will definitely be filling reservations into 2022

 

[PowPow]

[

You are only reading what you want to. I see what you see but you have a problem seeing what other people see and you almost had it. It says most reservations will be converted but it will drift into 2022 not 2026. Is that the dealers fault too?

Right. And things have changed A LOT from Sept 2020 till now. Ford wanted to produce way more Bronco's then they did this year. That is a fact. I'd love for someone to tell me otherwise. Ford had to eat shit on the MIC.

Also by that time (Sept 2020), I'm sure there weren't these dealers with crazy numbers yet. So they made that statement not being able to see into the future. Shocker. If they could, I'm sure they would've done a lot of things differently.

With what we're reading from Sept 2020, one could say Ford didn't change anything. The dealers just charged forward ignoring what Ford had said.

In the end, Ford did was is best for their interests. They're not losing any money on this. It's the dealers responsibility to work with Ford. Ford sets the rules, the dealers have to play within them.

And let's be honest here, these dealers that did this are getting a lot more allocation then they would have gotten. So it's not like Ford isn't throwing them Broncos. It's just not enough to fill every order. But from the looks of it, Ford gave them a heads up back in Sept 2020 that allocation was going to play a part. Maybe they should've listened? Or at least questioned that a bit more?

Now I can only speak to my experience with Granger as that is who I am going with. Through out the whole process they have been extremely up front and honest about when things are happening. never once did they say at least to my knowledge, you will get your bronco on this date.

I believe it was in one of the first threads Zach made on their first deal that allocation and parts constraints would effect delivery. So granger made it well known that allocations in addition to time stamp and build would determine when it arrives. Then when they made the October special, they made it clear for those people it would be most likely end of 22 before they saw their vehicles. Again up front an honest. Working off of the information they had from Ford.

Then you add in the parts constraints, hard top problems and all sorts of random builds start getting assigned build dates like mine did somehow, that's not on the dealer that's on Ford.

So now you have some early reservation holders still not scheduled, whether it was MIC tops, parts constraints or whatever - that is on Ford. So now those people get bumped into MY2022. But wait now Ford also decides to change how the allocation formula will work for MY22 and a dealer like Granger is going to receive less than what they anticipated based on previous information supplied to them from Ford. So you could have someone who got bumped a year because of Fords own issues, get bumped even further because Ford decided to change how vehicles get allocated.

None of that to me is on the dealer, that is on Ford and why people are mad at Ford not the dealer. They can only operate off of the info they are given, and IMO granger has been fantastic at sharing that. Ford is the one who kept moving the goal posts, changing things on the fly

But what, from what Ford has said, made them think they'd get 1000's of allocations? From what I'm reading. Nothing... They probably should've cut themselves off at some point.

as the saying goes "pigs get slaughtered".

 

[Bison]

Mark LaNeve, Ford's vice president of U.S. marketing, sales and service, told Automotive News he initially expects "over 75 percent" of the roughly 165,000 refundable deposits will be converted to sales, although that conversion rate is likely to fall for customers who have to wait longer for their Bronco. He said Ford will "definitely" be filling reservations into 2022.

Would be converted to sales not delivered.... he even states they will definitely be filling reservations into 2022

What does converted to sales mean to you? It doesn’t say converted to orders. Sales to me means money has exchanged as in I have a vehicle now.

 

[Bison]

Right. And things have changed A LOT from Sept 2020 till now. Ford wanted to produce way more Bronco's then they did this year. That is a fact. I'd love for someone to tell me otherwise. Ford had to eat shit on the MIC.

Also by that time (Sept 2020), I'm sure there weren't these dealers with crazy numbers yet. So they made that statement not being able to see into the future. Shocker. If they could, I'm sure they would've done a lot of things differently.

With what we're reading from Sept 2020, one could say Ford didn't change anything. The dealers just charged forward ignoring what Ford had said.

In the end, Ford did was is best for their interests. They're not losing any money on this. It's the dealers responsibility to work with Ford. Ford sets the rules, the dealers have to play within them.

And let's be honest here, these dealers that did this are getting a lot more allocation then they would have gotten. So it's not like Ford isn't throwing them Broncos. It's just not enough to fill every order. But from the looks of it, Ford gave them a heads up back in Sept 2020 that allocation was going to play a part. Maybe they should've listened? Or at least questioned that a bit more?


But what, from what Ford has said, made them think they'd get 1000's of allocations? From what I'm reading. Nothing... They probably should've cut themselves off at some point.

as the saying goes "pigs get slaughtered".

Your back on the same bullshit. Have you talked to granger to see if they had communication with Ford or are just assuming they didn’t? Then you say Ford did what was in their best interest ( which isn’t in my best interest). Yet you say don’t blame ford. Which is it? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

 

[dejones64]

I see people say this a lot in reference to the new allocation formula, but Ford sent everyone an email June 25th reneging on this. So this isn't something new.

I read this as an issue with the hard tops, mic or otherwise. So those reservations holders will have a delay because of the hard top. You want it earlier order the soft top.

This has nothing to do with Fords recent allocation debacle of trying to screw all reservation holders that aren't at the dealers they're in bed with.

 

[cowman]

What does converted to sales mean to you? It doesn’t say converted to orders. Sales to me means money has exchanged as in I have a vehicle now.

75 percent" of the roughly 165,000 refundable deposits will be converted to sales,... simple 75% of the deposits will be converted to sale.... here is my 100.00.... here is my order.... now I wait for it to be built.... or I want my deposit back don't build it.... now you are the 25% no build... no sale... At this time Sept.2020 they had 165,000 deposits... there had been no sales because they had not been built..... he is talking about the deposits on orders not the delivered sales of Broncos.... which I think ended up being about 125,000 converted orders not delivery of Broncos...

 

[PowPow]

Your back on the same bullshit. Have you talked to granger to see if they had communication with Ford or are just assuming they didn’t? Then you say Ford did what was in their best interest ( which isn’t in my best interest). Yet you say don’t blame ford. Which is it? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.

I'm not going after any specific dealers. There's more than just one.

If you can assume they did, and blame Ford, I can assume they didn't, and blame them. Since we're all just assuming.

But there's more signs pointing to they didn't. And it looks like other's have been able to produce proof that Ford stated in Sept 2020 that allocations mattered. So based on the information I have, I can't help but look in the direction of the dealer...

 

[goatman]

From September I believe it said not July 13th when reservations were placed so false not from the beginning. It also stated in the article 75% of the Broncos would be delivered in 2021 with the rest going into 2022. Mind Blown!! Facts my friend facts.

Again, you are making my point. While reservations were already open, orders were not open. So, when the dealers that chose to market at below invoice made their decisions, and started to take orders, the allocation information was out there. And, yes, it was said from the beginning that all Bronco orders would not be able to be fulfilled in 2021. 75% is an estimate with info available at that time. Things happened, it just is what it is. It is a fact that dealers who chose to market way below invoice knew that their allocations would be tied to previous sales and market size. They knew it! They chose to take a chance on orders being filled outside of the allocation. They took a chance.

 

[PowPow]

Again, you are making my point. While reservations were already open, orders were not open. So, when the dealers that chose to market at below invoice made their decisions, and started to take orders, the allocation information was out there. And, yes, it was said from the beginning that all Bronco orders would not be able to be fulfilled in 2021. 75% is an estimate with info available at that time. Things happened, it just is what it is. It is a fact that dealers who chose to market way below invoice knew that their allocations would be tied to previous sales and market size. They knew it! They chose to take a chance on orders being filled outside of the allocation. They took a chance.

Exactly! And got burnt.

To use another common saying, high risk, high reward. Unfortunately this risk didn't work out that way.

 

[RBF 1401]

Sorry, it blows my mind that folks are ignoring what is right there in front of you. The post you're quoting from was from 2020, right from the beginning. So, this quote is from the beginning.

"Dealer allocation will depend on a retailer's market size, previous SUV sales performance, the number of reservations tied to their store and competitive off-road registrations in their market, LaNeve said."

So, nothing has changed. FROM THE BEGINNING, Ford said the allocation would be tied to market size and previous sales, as well as Bronco orders. You and others keep saying that Ford changed the allocation system, and they didn't. The best evidence is right in the quote that YOU posted. Again, you keep arguing with me, and every post you make supports my point. So, what are we actually discussing?

And with your post, "The best evidence is right in the quote that YOU posted."

"Dealer allocation will depend on a retailer's market size, previous SUV sales performance, the number of reservations tied to their store and competitive off-road registrations in their market, LaNeve said."

1.) 25% of the new 2022 formula is tied to specifically "Bronco Sport" sales, not "previous SUV" sales as stated in your reposted quote of the description of the 2021 allocation formula.

2.) The "number of reservations tied to their store" is all but completely gone from the new formula.

3.) And "competitive off-road registrations in their market" the extra allocations that were funnelled toward areas of the country with lots of Jeep owners, is also no longer part of the formula.

It looks to me like the quote you reposted shows exact evidence that the allocation formula has changed drastically for 2022.

Now, add to that...

I just got off the phone with Ford Customer Service. The woman I spoke with is going to have a meeting with her supervisor because they have been told to tell us that all the reservations will be filled in 2022 AND that people who converted reservations to orders in 2021 but got pushed to 2022 would get their Broncos built first before newly converted 2022 orders. (Accounting for commodity constraints of course.)

They will also be looking at what Mr. Levine has been tweeting these last few days since it seems to contradict what they were told to say.

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