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why are we blaming Ford and not the dealers?

cowman

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Huh...I got $100 back from Ford, not my dealer. It's almost like you can't trust that FAQ.
Were you in process or had you already ordered from the dealer
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Lashedup

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I'm not here going to deny, the way they set up the system is flawed. And I'm not saying Ford isn't wrong on some aspects. I'm just not sure why more people aren't bothered with the dealers? I'll say it again, they own the relationship with Ford. Not us. They know how allocations work and how Ford delivers cars, etc... we don't. It's their business. I'd like to think they understand how it works.
I'm at a loss as to why the percentage of blame here matters in the least. I've worked on the corporate side of the automotive industry my entire life. I know the inside baseball and all the warts that go with it. 98% of consumers don't.

Customers went to the Ford Motor Company website, gave $100 in exchange for a reservation and were instructed to choose a dealership to do business with. No reasonable consumer would have any other expectation than to complete that process with the dealer they selected.

Ford knew in the first 24 hours if they had created a problem with supply and demand as it relates to the allocation process. Instead of pulling the dealer selection process off the reservation website, they let it ride and continued to set customer expectations. Meanwhile they quietly changed the Terms and Conditions on the backend to protect themselves. Ford could have easily looked at the reservations for a given dealership and sent an email to anyone that ordered a Bronco through that dealership to let them know that due to supply constraints and allocations they may not be able to purchase their car through that dealership. Instead they let it ride again. Not for 1-3 months. Not for 6-12 months. But for over a year while more people paid money to make a reservation and choose a dealer.

All of that is on Ford Motor Company.




As a side note, Chevy allocates Corvettes based on a given dealer's past number of Corvette sales. So if your dealership sells a lot of Corvettes, you get more Corvettes. The top two in the nation sell at MSRP, communicate transparently, take care of customers and sell exponentially more Corvettes than any of the rest of the 3000+ dealers in the network. Anyone can choose to compete with that if they want. Chevy is one example of a manufacturer that decided it was time to reward dealerships that take care of customers. Creme rises to the top. And that's on a product that sells a whole lot less than the Bronco's potential numbers. Ford could easily fix this and still keep dealers happy. There are a whole lot more Bronco's to go around than Corvettes.
 

Bronc-O

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Top 150 Dealers in the country see if you can find Granger...

71040 Galpin Ford
48048 Suburban Ford of Sterling Heights
48032 Bill Brown Ford Inc
48426 Varsity Ford
52020 Five Star Ford
52032 Planet Ford
74748 AutoNation Ford Katy
48024 Pat Milliken Ford, Inc.
52023 Joe Myers Ford Lincoln
53507 Woodhouse Ford, Inc.
48030 Tom Holzer Ford, Inc.
24222 Brandon Ford
71152 Sunrise Ford
71179 Peoria Ford
48044 Taylor Ford
47035 Ricart Ford
52031 Mac Haik Ford
52024 AutoNation Ford Gulf Freeway
71171 Don Sanderson Ford
52302 Covert Ford, Inc.
13301 Dana Ford Lincoln
21019 Capital Ford Inc
52204 Mac Haik's Southway Ford
48026 Southgate Ford
44120 West Herr Ford Inc
52055 Tomball Ford, Inc.
48003 Mike Dorian Ford, Inc
71089 Ken Grody Ford
72206 Future Ford Lincoln
48028 Avis Ford, Inc.
71018 South Bay Ford Lincoln
11010 Quirk Ford 1593 305
27042 Ted Britt Fairfax Ford
52018 Grapevine Ford Lincoln
52752 Bluebonnet Motors
52146 Mac Haik Ford Lincoln
48016 Jack Demmer Ford, Inc.
71182 San Tan Ford
52046 Randall Reed's Planet Ford
52007 Sam Pack's Five Star Ford of Lewisville
13147 All American Ford Inc
58020 Apple Ford Lincoln Apple Valley
48022 Gorno Bros Inc
71019 Sunrise Ford of North Hollywood
71169 Gaudin Ford
21026 Crossroads Ford, Inc.
71168 Ford Country
52056 Red McCombs Ford
52014 Sam Pack's Five Star Ford
13058 All American Ford of Old Bridge
56002 Phil Long Ford of Denver, LLC
56301 Rich Ford Sales, Inc.
27044 Koons Sterling Ford
58015 AutoNation Ford White Bear Lake
48051 Huntington Ford, Inc.
72403 The Ford Store Morgan Hill
48411 Hines Park Ford, Inc.
71080 Penske Ford
52057 McCombs Ford West
48005 Royal Oak Ford
48050 Suburban Ford of Waterford, LLC
27016 Lindsay Ford, LLC
24461 Gary Yeomans Ford
52058 Jordan Ford, Ltd.
53201 Rusty Eck Ford, Inc.
48027 Village Ford Inc
48040 Russ Milne Ford, Inc.
52104 Hacienda Ford
71167 Team Ford Lincoln
53792 Joe Machens Ford, Inc.
47136 Andy Mohr Ford, Inc.
27007 Ted Britt Chantilly Ford Lincoln
52008 David McDavid Ford Ft. Worth
52017 North Central Ford
71084 Kearny Pearson Ford
58016 North Country Ford Lincoln
24009 Sawgrass Ford
41066 Golf Mill Motor Sales, Inc.
52509 Bob Tomes Ford
56009 AutoNation Ford Littleton
21441 Mall of Georgia Ford
24480 Sam Galloway Ford Lincoln
21225 Crown Ford
48508 Brighton Ford, Inc.
72205 Future Ford
52525 AutoNation Ford Frisco
21480 Akins Ford
52166 Gullo Ford of Conroe
71170 Friendly Ford
13465 Schultz Ford Lincoln, Inc.
47022 Bill Collins Ford Lincoln of Louisville
52212 Shamaley Ford
21111 Long-Lewis Ford Lincoln
13143 Paramus Ford, Inc.
71439 Jim Burke Ford
47014 Mike Castrucci Ford Sales, Inc.
71176 Earnhardt Ford
52210 Casa Ford Lincoln
52097 Boggus Motor Sales II, LLC
44117 West Herr Ford of Amherst, LLC
24002 AutoNation Ford Miami
52063 Northside Ford
24408 Bartow Ford Co
24413 Bozard Ford-Lincoln
53116 Olathe Ford Lincoln
53032 Charles Gabus Ford
48039 Dean Sellers Inc
53049 Bommarito Ford
53203 Mel Hambelton Ford, Inc.
71178 AutoNation Ford Scottsdale
27547 Preston Ford Lincoln
48017 Jorgensen Ford Sales, Inc.
27048 Cowles Parkway Ford, Inc.
53014 Gary Crossley Ford, Inc.
27020 Sheehy Ford of Gaithersburg LC
53080 Dave Sinclair Ford, Inc.
27047 Waldorf Ford, Inc.
71155 Fritts Ford
44083 Klaben Ford Lincoln, Inc.
44115 C. Basil Ford, Inc.
52012 Randall Reed's Prestige Ford
71053 David Wilson's Villa Ford
27037 Koons Ford of Baltimore Inc
52572 Sewell Ford-Lincoln
13033 Ford Lincoln of Queens Boulevard
52303 Maxwell Ford
44605 Mike Bass Ford, Inc.
13507 Healey Ford Lincoln, LLC
52182 Helfman Ford Inc
24203 Bill Currie Ford
27030 Apple Ford Lincoln
47313 Ray Skillman Ford, Inc.
52408 Southwest Ford, Inc.
72207 Folsom Lake Ford, Inc.
27054 Beach Ford Inc
52241 Tommie Vaughn Motors, Inc.
44119 Towne Ford Inc
21015 Long-Lewis Ford Lincoln
48010 Roy O'Brien, Inc.
52758 Spikes Motor Company, Inc.
56593 Lithia Ford Lincoln of Boise
27027 Al Packer's White Marsh Ford LLC
24224 Greenway Ford, Inc.
21209 J.C. Lewis Ford, LLC
58716 Sioux Falls Ford Lincoln
11023 Tasca Ford Lincoln
52005 Park Cities Ford Lincoln
74009 Ford of Kirkland
24402 Sarasota Ford
72208 Elk Grove Ford
There are 2 dealers on this list that are within 10 miles of me. One of them is the one I do business with. I don't think it's the footprint of the dealership that means much. It's how many vehicles they sell.
 

phocion

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I'm less concerned with who to blame and more concerned about who can fix it.

The small dealers can't get Ford to change the formula. The big dealers don't want Ford to change the formula.

Only Ford can fix this, if properly incentivized by customer outrage. After all, it's Ford's name on the Bronco and Ford's reputation that is going to take a hit if the customers feel burned. No customer is sitting around feeling wronged by an honest dealer that gave them a below invoice deal.
 

Bronc-O

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[

You are only reading what you want to. I see what you see but you have a problem seeing what other people see and you almost had it. It says most reservations will be converted but it will drift into 2022 not 2026. Is that the dealers fault too?
I think it is partly the dealers fault. They've been in business for a long time and should have a pretty good idea of what they could expect to see. Ford took them to task early on and none of know what went on behind the scenes. Dealer said everything was fine and the offers continued. Way back then when I converted my reservation, my dealer already had more orders than they expected allocations to cover. I reserved on day 2. My dealer is on that top 150 list and knew they were already over their head.
 

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fergthulhu

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I'm gonna bite again.

I don't have anything against Ford up until now. I put off the purchase of a ZR2 or Gladiator (hadn't decided yet) to wait for the new Bronco. When production was going to take too long, I bought a new Ranger (at MSRP no less) and have been super happy with it so far.

But...

Even ignoring all the missteps and misleading that I believe were done by Ford, do you really want to know why Ford is getting all the heat? You've heard all the reasoning and believe the dealers own half the blame. I get it. I'm not on board, but I get it. Here's the thing though, there's only one entity in this situation that has the ability to find a good solution.

Ford.

Even if I placed all the blame on the dealer, that's still a Ford problem. Ford isn't powerless. Ford is still stamped on every car they make (although barely on the Bronco/Mach-E). They made the agreements with the dealerships and decided how to incentivize them, so they don't just get to pass the buck. If I complain to the dealer, where does that get me? If I complain to Ford about the dealer, does that solve my problem?

Who has the data to know where a reservation could be moved to be filled? Ford. Who could have sent an email similar to the commodity restraint email warning people about dealer allocations? Ford. Who saw this coming as reservations and orders started flowing in? Ford.

I suppose myself as the end consumer could play dealership roulette and hope I picked the right number. But without any guidance from Ford (again) to determine that, I'm probably going to be out of luck again. So it comes back to who can actually solve the problem and the effort they invest in doing so.

So far it looks like all they've done is quietly update a FAQ and shrug their shoulders. Maybe I'm wrong and they agonized over several possible solutions. But from where I'm sitting it sure looks like they had all the information and decided to sweep as much as they could under the rug then punt the rest.

TLDR: Doesn't matter how much blame I assign to the dealer. There's only one entity that can really fix this mess: Ford
 

fergthulhu

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I'm less concerned with who to blame and more concerned about who can fix it.

The small dealers can't get Ford to change the formula. The big dealers don't want Ford to change the formula.

Only Ford can fix this, if properly incentivized by customer outrage. After all, it's Ford's name on the Bronco and Ford's reputation that is going to take a hit if the customers feel burned. No customer is sitting around feeling wronged by an honest dealer that gave them a below invoice deal.
Well that was a lot more concise way to make the point I just tried to make. Guess we're on the same page.
 

Bronc-O

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Now I can only speak to my experience with Granger as that is who I am going with. Through out the whole process they have been extremely up front and honest about when things are happening. never once did they say at least to my knowledge, you will get your bronco on this date.

I believe it was in one of the first threads Zach made on their first deal that allocation and parts constraints would effect delivery. So granger made it well known that allocations in addition to time stamp and build would determine when it arrives. Then when they made the October special, they made it clear for those people it would be most likely end of 22 before they saw their vehicles. Again up front an honest. Working off of the information they had from Ford.

Then you add in the parts constraints, hard top problems and all sorts of random builds start getting assigned build dates like mine did somehow, that's not on the dealer that's on Ford.

So now you have some early reservation holders still not scheduled, whether it was MIC tops, parts constraints or whatever - that is on Ford. So now those people get bumped into MY2022. But wait now Ford also decides to change how the allocation formula will work for MY22 and a dealer like Granger is going to receive less than what they anticipated based on previous information supplied to them from Ford. So you could have someone who got bumped a year because of Fords own issues, get bumped even further because Ford decided to change how vehicles get allocated.

None of that to me is on the dealer, that is on Ford and why people are mad at Ford not the dealer. They can only operate off of the info they are given, and IMO granger has been fantastic at sharing that. Ford is the one who kept moving the goal posts, changing things on the fly
I agree with much of this. Where I think they got in too deep was with the second offer. When the discount got larger, that's when the balance shifted the wrong way. It will be interesting to see how people get out of this mess.
 

phocion

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Well that was a lot more concise way to make the point I just tried to make. Guess we're on the same page.
Ha, sorry I beat you to it. I think it really is the strongest point. The customer affected by this has nowhere to go to get a remedy other than Ford. That's why it's Ford's problem to fix, if they don't want upset Bronco customers.

And making people pay more money to a different dealer (who they don't trust) is not a solution. Might get someone a Bronco faster, but it isn't going to leave a good taste in the mouth when someone already had a dealer and a deal lined up for over a year before Ford changed the rules of the game.
 

Bronc-O

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How many of those are name verified reservations and how many are crap orders so they can sell at high prices. Ford is allowing only a 60% name verification before they ad penalties. So my guess is like 50%. Granger has said it is at 100% name verification and I have no reason to not believe them.
Seems like that makes it even worse for them? They really some work ahead it stays at 100%
 

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Bronc-O

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...but they can sure as shit impact your inventory. Maybe they can't tell you what to price them at, but they can give you fewer to sell at that price.

Pick any other franchise network or brand, would they allow the few discount dealers to undercut the entire network of franchise dealers? Likely not. There is a massive investment in the entire dealer network, multiple other lines of vehicles and service to reconcile.
Isn't there a contract in place between Ford and the dealer? I don't believe Ford can just lash out at a dealer without recourse. This isn't like punishing your kids when you see fit.
 

Bronc-O

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The allocation did change. It has been weighted differently to the benefit different dealers. The initial Granger number is already in, and they will only get 11 allocated to start the year. If that ratio holds, they'll get 132 allocations on at least 1000 pre-orders.

In '21, they got 203 allocations for 6 months of limited production and setbacks.
When did they know 203 was their allocation? That right there makes the whole argument. Where did they think 1200 plus was going to go? Certainly not 22.
 

Bronc-O

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Your back on the same bullshit. Have you talked to granger to see if they had communication with Ford or are just assuming they didn’t? Then you say Ford did what was in their best interest ( which isn’t in my best interest). Yet you say don’t blame ford. Which is it? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
I'll take $200 for Ford did what's in it's best interest Alex. That will be a winner every time.
 

RBF 1401

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I agree with much of this. Where I think they got in too deep was with the second offer. When the discount got larger, that's when the balance shifted the wrong way. It will be interesting to see how people get out of this mess.
The second offer is really a non-issue in the fury that you are hearing from Granger customers. The original allocation formula would mean everyone gets a 2021 or 2022 Bronco, worst case scenario, a few get pushed into 2023 or voluntarily hold off until 2023.

With the new allocation formula, a lot of people with JULY reservations may not see a Bronco until 2023, and anyone with a reservation after 8/27/20 may not see their truck until 2024.

This isn't even October deal people we are talking about. This is rabid Bronco fans who ordered their vehicle that first week. Do you really think Ford intends to let Day 3 reservation holders have to wait until 2023? And August and September reservations to wait until 2024?

Ford customer service said to me TODAY that they were told to tell callers that ALL the reservations would be built in 2022. So, gee, Ford still can't communicate with their customers if Mike is tweeting to change dealers because Broncos will now be based mostly on this new allocation formula with little regard to resevation time stamp. But customer service is claiming that not only will all the reservations be built in 2022, but any converted 2021 orders will take priority over 2022 orders that were from reservations that had not been converted to 2021 orders.

The agent got a little shook up to hear the Mike Levine was tweeting information to the contrary and asked for what dates he tweeted because she has to talk to her supervisor.

And you think I should be mad at Granger? They are very open and honest about what they are doing, how they are doing it, and what challenges there are.

Ford on the other hand can't even get their story straight. I bet if I write or call and get a different customer rep, I will get a different answer.
 
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gammaguybronco

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Read this, and you'll see why me, and many others are pissed. Ford said, reserve your Bronco with any dealer, and we did. Ford said, we'll go by your date/time stamp, and we beleved them. Ford said we'll build your Bronco before any dealer stock, and we believed them. Supply constraints came along, and Ford told us you're Bronco may not be built by the time stamp but we will get everyone's Bronco by Q4 of '22 and we told Ford we understood. Ford said we have a problem with the MIC top, and if you change to a soft you could get your Bronco sooner. But we'll still get everyone's Bronco by Q4 of '22. Some did, some didn't, but we told Ford we understood. Saturday that all went to shit when Ford leaked the new allocation formula that favors mega dealer by giving them dealer stock before myself, and many more get our Broncos. Now, my October reservation that would have shown up by at least late summer of '22 will be a 2024 model, possible a 2025 model. Now you want to come along, and ask me why I'm pissed. Well, there ya go buddy, that's why.



Fords lie.png
This stuff obviously doesn’t matter to some in here. I’m assuming they are dealers, work for dealers, placed orders with larger dealers, or already got their bronco. Order banks opened in July 2020, allocation announcements came later in September. Via a video sent to dealers, not to reservation holders.
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