why are we blaming Ford and not the dealers?

Daktari

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It is unfathomable to most people how you are defending being lied to repeatedly by a company because you feel (reasons) are an excuse.
maybe because Ford never lied to me? The reservation was a spot in line and clearly stated it does not guarantee you a vehicle - ever. Also stated to figure out pricing with your select dealer.
Yes, they said orders before stock builds, before they knew about the roof issues. They can't just stop the line because they don't have a buildable order at hand. And so far all that speculation that "the fat cats will get hundreds of stock models" is just internet speculation here, as far I I know it's not even clear how this allocation formula will be applied. And allocations will change from month to month, not a "in 2022 you get x Broncos" in. Nobody, not even Ford knows how many units each dealer will get by end of the year. It's good to give Ford feedback and who knows if they might come up with something that more or less works for all.

Anyway, just the way I see it, I don't feel I was lied to, my dealer communicated great with me when necessary and did what I asked them to do.

I'm not "defending" Ford and I'm certainly not a fan boy, this is my first ever Ford and first ever American car. Maybe I was just lucky that my dealer is great and honest and everything worked out. And I'm sorry for those stuck on dirt mountain and now in this uncertainty with the discount dealers, but in no way do I excuse those dealers taking in thousands of orders without a plan on how to get the units delivered. They know about allocations, they deal with that every day with every model and every brand they sell, it's nothing new. Limited supply needs to be spread out over 3000+ dealers. Maybe Ford should have somehow put a stop to how many reservations each dealer can take, meaning Ford maybe should have allocated the units up front, but I don't know if that's even possible. And the dealers probably should have stopped taking reservations once the number vastly exceeded any allocations they've ever seen? Both made mistakes here IMO.

Well, enough from me, just the way I see it, nobody has to agree with me on anything, but I can voice my opinion just like anyone else can. Just tired of the constant negativity against Ford on a Ford vehicle forum, seems a bit silly to me.

I do hope you get your order delivered as soon as possible, it is worth the wait and I wish you and everybody else good luck.
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Bronc-O

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exactly. And so far so good. I was expecting to take a lot more heat. But besides a few flexing their internet muscles, it's been mostly a decent debate.

I was just trying to open a few minds.

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if you want to blame Ford, blame Ford. If you want to blame the dealer, blame the dealer. I don't really care. Blaming ain't gonna do shit anyway. Not much is going to change bc a few hundred people are upset over getting their Bronco under MSPR. (just not when they want it)

I don't think either are squeaky clean here. both need to be accountable.
I thought you'd get more heat as well. Perhaps, this has been talked about enough that people realize they need to look at the bigger picture instead of going directly to the blame Ford button. I don't feel Ford is completely without blame here, but they going to do what works best for regardless of a little internet blowback. As many have also said, dealers played the system and Ford isn't choosing to play along.
 
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exactly. And so far so good. I was expecting to take a lot more heat. But besides a few flexing their internet muscles, it's been mostly a decent debate.

I was just trying to open a few minds.

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if you want to blame Ford, blame Ford. If you want to blame the dealer, blame the dealer. I don't really care. Blaming ain't gonna do shit anyway. Not much is going to change bc a few hundred people are upset over getting their Bronco under MSPR. (just not when they want it)

I don't think either are squeaky clean here. both need to be accountable.
I mostly blame Ford because they instituted the kluge of a reservation scheme. That's Ford's baby. To me it always seemed more of a marketing scheme than anything else. Ford should have had a more traditional release imho. If I never hear the phrase "reservation time stamp" again, it will be too soon, lol.
 

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That isn't even close to what I said but feel free to spin it that way.
How many ways can you spin " simply because not all opinions are equally valid".

That's pretty much a slap in the face to someone that doesn't agree with you.
 

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How many ways can you spin " simply because not all opinions are equally valid".

That's pretty much a slap in the face to someone that doesn't agree with you.
There are very few ways to spin it.
And yet you continue to get it wrong so that's kinda special.
 

gammaguybronco

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Some issues on here I'd like to comment on.

It's been being said that this is to hurt the small dealer, and this isn't true. Allocation is normally done this way and yes, big dealers will get more, but they sell more and sell more units that aren't hard to get. If a vehicle has history, Ford usually uses sales history (60%) and availability (40%), but since there was no sales history for Bronco, this doesn't work. What this means is all dealers won't have enough Broncos, big dealer might get 200, small dealer might get 20, but big dealer could sell 2,000, small dealer 200, still the same mix, neither has an advantage over the other. It often appears this way since the larger dealers sell off the lot where as the smaller dealers tend to be more into selling orders and will presell. After the chip shortages, I expect this difference will narrow some as most large dealers are learning how to sell orders.

One place the small dealer has a disadvantage is in the math, rounding effects small numbers more than large ones, still makes the difference on 1 unit if you get rounded down, but one on 20 is a lot worse than 1 on 200.

As to the Bronco Sport portion, this was announced last year when Bronco Sport came out and was an incentive to push them, at that time no one realized the hit the Sport would be, but we were told that they would count toward 22 Bronco allocations, so this has been ongoing. Not really much a dealer can do to gain here as Bronco Sports have been allocated and hard to get since launch. They do fill sold orders without allocation, so a dealer can gain slightly. But it was promised last year so nothing new here except now there is a % to go with it.

I think you'll find that other than a couple dealers this allocation system will have very little effect in delivery time than if Ford went in reservation order. Yes, if a dealer went out and conquest tons of sales and they are in a jam with this system, on the opposite side, some small dealers didn't accept reservations, and therefore got no allocations for 21, now for 22, they will get some as they should, they have to pay for the tools and equipment to repair them, they should get to sell them. Granted both examples are likely a number of dealers you can count on your fingers.

I know this will upset some people, but at the same time, is it reasonable if you're a dealer that sold 500 Fords total last year to expect to get 1000 Broncos this year? Also, I haven't read a Ford sales and service agreement in quite some time, but it used to also require that you have service to support your sales, meaning you should have the bays and techs to match this number, and if still the case, I don't know what the legal issues for Ford would be if they allowed a dealer to get a crazy number of Broncos, but I suspect there are some.

That said I understand the complaints with the reservation systems presentation on launch, so I see both sides, and in my mind, both are right, but I think many on here only see things their way and I'd hope they'd understand a little better even if they don't like or agree with it, and for 98% of buyers it will make little difference in when they get their Bronco.

As for 2023, I expect allocations to turn into normal vehicle where they do a 60/40 (or another %, this often changes based on the market) split based on sales and availability as was traditional, since there will be sales history at that point, but this is just my guess, then whenever Ford gets caught up, Bronco to go to OTD where a retail order automatically generates an allocation (like Escape/Edge/Bronco Sport and 22 Explorer), but I'm afraid this might be many years down the road.
I understand what you’re saying, but from a buyers perspective, with no insight into the industry, we just see what Ford promised with the reservation system. They would build reservation orders first. I get that bigger dealers would have some preference in getting their reservations filled first due to the allocation preference. Which as a buyer would be an incentive to use one of those dealers, but Ford never said they would shove reservation holders behind cars being put out in the lot. That’s just crap and there is no way around it.
 

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My biggest issue with this process at this point is Ford reneged on their promise to provide us with a delivery estimate. If Ford would provide us a delivery estimate within a 6 month range that’d help so we know if we’ll get a Bronco the first or second half of 2022 or sometime in 2023 or 2024. As it stands no one who’s been moved to 2022 (or maybe later) has any idea when they might see their rig.


I can order a Jeep today and know within a range of weeks when I’ll receive it. With a Bronco no one has any idea when an individual order will be fulfilled because dealer allocations aren’t and won’t be finalized for months if they are ever really finalized. Throw supply chain issues on top of the way Ford has changed the rules and there’s no way to know if you’re 2022, 2023, 2024, or 2025!

So, maybe the solution is for the majority of us who’ve been moved to 2022 (or later) is to forego placing a new order and trapping 10’s of 1000’s reservations in limbo.

Yeah, dealers would likely get the same number of Broncos based on the new allocation formula but there’s definitely a difference to Ford in revenue timing and sales numbers when producing product for customer orders vs dealer stock.
 

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ok, 1st, sorry for the long post.

2nd, I've seen this forum blowing up over the weekend over this whole allocation ordeal, but I'd like to apply some logic to it, and not just point fingers. I know this is probably going to stir up some emotions, but I'm going to play a little devil's advocate.

Here we go!

I don't understand why people are blaming this all on Ford and not the dealers.

Hear me out.

Dealers are in the business of making money. Right? These 'deals' aren't out of the goodness of their hearts. They're making money. I don't know for fact, but at least in my simple mind, if I sell 10 broncos at $1000 profit, or if I sell 30 broncos at $500 profit, I'm making more money by sheer volume. (And these dealers increased by much more than triple from what I've read) Nevermind whatever else they're making on whatever deals they have with whatever banks on doing financing through them. Also selling trade-ins, extended warranties, insurance, etc...

Dealers were aware of allocations. This isn't new to them. They tried gaming the system and Ford didn't play.

The dealerships used people and passed it off as 'deals'. And some people probably saved money, it was a two way street for a bit. But now dealerships are trying to blame Ford. Bc now they're probably not going to make the margins they were forecasting. And they're trying to use this forum to get people on their side.

plus how about the innocent local, original reservation holder, at these dealers? They could've been 15 or 20 in line with like a Sept 2020 reservation, but bc of everyone flocking they got pushed into what could now be 2023. But no one cares about them, right? Just as long as you were getting a good deal. That's all that mattered.

if everyone ordered from their local dealer and other's didn't boost their numbers, allocations wouldn't even be a problem. In fact, Ford has over 3000 dealerships, I'm willing to bet at the other 3000 dealerships, allocation isn't a problem and they'll fill every order they have next year. (quick math, 150,000 orders into 3000 dealerships in only 50 per)(yes I know not all things are created equal, but it gives you an idea, or should how the distribution organically falls into place)

If you're super upset about possibly getting pushed into 2023, then just change your order to a different dealer. I'm sure once most folks (not all, before anyone starts attacking) actually did some math on how much they're saving compared to how much they're spending to drive half way across the country, they'll realize the savings wasn't there to begin with.

Or maybe all this is just the cynic in me.

But if I were one of those people, I'd be pissed at the dealer who promised me something they can't deliver on. The dealerships own the relationship with Ford. Not us. Maybe they should've ran their business model by Ford first to see if i they'd be able to meet demand? Before they went making promises they can't keep.

we were all quick to blame Ford for their supplier Webasto. Shouldn't we then blame the dealers for their supplier Ford?

I've seen the statement 'ford is catering to the big dealers'. Why wouldn't they? Those are the dealers that sell the most Fords year over year. And last time I checked Ford is in the business of selling cars... After all this reservation craziness dies down, these small dealers will go back to selling like 50 Broncos a year, if that. Why should Ford change their business model to cater to a small few that exploited a loophole? Again, allocations aren't new, and they exist for a reason.

Now, with that said, Ford isn't totally innocent here. They tried the Tesla sales model, but didn't account for the dealer loophole and didn't expect some dealerships to do what they're doing. So while a lot on here think it's a big deal, it's maybe, what? 1% (if that) of all orders that will fall into 2023. You're pissed, but Ford isn't losing any sleep over it.

And hey, good for these dealers. They saw a loophole and tried to exploit it to make money. But it caught up to them... let's not make them into heroes, and hold them accountable.

Or hey, maybe I'm wrong and these dealerships did run their business model by Ford and Ford blessed it, and now Ford is going back on their word. However, I doubt that'll be the case. If it is, then I'll gladly eat crow. but none of us will ever really know if that's the truth or not.
EXACTLY!

And I got banned from two threads for saying this. Anyone who thinks differently is in La La Land and is basing their views on their own self serving opinion. I keep reading "Ford is catering to the big dealerships", and what is this view based on? What evidence is there? Seems pure self serving speculation to me, just a bunch of factless whining. Ban me again for my view, don't care. Give me bad rep, don't care.

While the allocation system is not perfect, it is how the system works, for all manufacturers. It's there because it works, and is fair. Not fair in every possible scenario, and not perfect in every scenario, but nothing is. It works the best in most situations. No one wants to hold any dealership accountable for the individual marketing decisions that a dealership made. Sure, the dealership can be a great place, and sure the people there can be great people, but that doesn't change the fact that a dealership choose to try to take advantage of a system and it backfired on them and their customers. Ford is under no obligation to violate it's own system, that every dealership knows about, to accommodate a couple dealerships that took a risk and decided to market at way below invoice prices and ended up taking a ton of orders, WAY more than they normally would have, and WAY more than they could reasonably expect Ford to give them. It's business, they took a risk. It didn't work out like they hoped it would. Not Ford's fault.

I read peoples comments on here that imply Ford hates it's own customers. Ridiculous. Ford is giving incentives to help goodwill while people wait, Ford is doing the Off Roadeos, Ford is now doing special drive events throughout the country. While Ford has messed things some things up, and while they have had to deal with unexpected problems and issues, Ford has no reason or motivation at all to shit on it's customers. Silly to think so. Those who think so are just venting and ranting to satisfy their own frustration.

It really is amazing how much pure bullshit I see posted around here regarding Ford and dealerships. Some of you need to get a life. Cheers. 😊 🍻
 
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Sure, the dealership can be a great place, and sure the people there can be great people, but that doesn't change the fact that a dealership choose to try to take advantage of a system and it backfired on them and their customers. Ford is under no obligation to violate it's own system, that every dealership knows about, to accommodate a couple dealerships that took a risk and decided to market at way below invoice prices and ended up taking a ton of orders, WAY more then they normally would have, and WAY more then they could reasonably expect Ford to give them. It's business, they took a risk. It didn't work out like they hoped it would. Not Ford's fault.
Yes. Well said!
 

Bronc-O

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EXACTLY!

And I got banned from two threads for saying this. Anyone who thinks differently is in La La Land and is basing their views on their own self serving opinion. I keep reading "Ford is catering to the big dealerships", and what is this view based on? What evidence is there? Seems pure self serving speculation to me, just a bunch of factless whining. Ban me again for my view, don't care. Give me bad rep, don't care.



It really is amazing how much pure bullshit I see posted around here regarding Ford and dealerships. Some of you need to get a life. Cheers. 😊 🍻
I figured you likely got banned from those threads. I did as well. Cutting out certain opinions is not in the best interests in the community as a whole and just creates suspicion that we're being spoon fed a certain narrative that the site wants us to believe. At the same time, they call out another site for doing this. If people are not able to offer their opinion respectfully on a topic because you are in the minority, we might as well shut off the lights and call it a wrap.
 

Bronc-O

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Do you guys remember this gem?
Screenshot_20211011-191817_Gmail.jpg

7/15 reservation, I still don't have a build date.... hopefully I'll have one by 1st quarter next year. So yeah, I blame Ford.
Well, the first part happened and then the train went off the tracks. My reservation was also 7-15.
 
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