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why are we blaming Ford and not the dealers?

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You would think if overselling and undercutting the Bronco was genius, more than three dealers would have followed suit. Surely three small dealers didn't outsmart thousands of larger, more successful dealers.... interesting concept.
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Bronc-O

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This thread is about dealers having some responsibility, and it isn't all Ford's fault. So, are you saying that a dealer who chose to dramatically oversell their projected allocation by dramatically undercutting pricing, has no fault at all in this....it's all Ford's fault? What are you saying?

Folks keep saying Ford changed the rules and went to an allocation system the second year. We have shown that Ford had the allocation system from the beginning. Folks have argued that Ford said they would fill reservations first, and it has been clearly shown that Ford from the beginning said that filling orders by reservations date was still subject to parts availability and dealers allocations. So, what is your argument? Is your only argument that the 2022 allocation formula is different from the 2021 formula? OK, what was the 2021 formula to prove that it's different now? And, so it's different. That doesn't change the topic of this thread that some dealers chose to WAY over sell their expected allocation by dramatic price undercutting. And has some responsibility in that. Are you saying that those dealers have no responsibility? Only Ford is at fault?
This just showed up in the news. Dealer is afraid Ford will come after them.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/autos/ent...could-be-delayed-for-years/ar-AAPqX88?ocid=se
 

CPL_Rabbit

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This thread is about dealers having some responsibility, and it isn't all Ford's fault. So, are you saying that a dealer who chose to dramatically oversell their projected allocation by dramatically undercutting pricing, has no fault at all in this....it's all Ford's fault? What are you saying?

Folks keep saying Ford changed the rules and went to an allocation system the second year. We have shown that Ford had the allocation system from the beginning. Folks have argued that Ford said they would fill reservations first, and it has been clearly shown that Ford from the beginning said that filling orders by reservations date was still subject to parts availability and dealers allocations. So, what is your argument? Is your only argument that the 2022 allocation formula is different from the 2021 formula? OK, what was the 2021 formula to prove that it's different now? And, so it's different. That doesn't change the topic of this thread that some dealers chose to WAY over sell their expected allocation by dramatic price undercutting. And has some responsibility in that. Are you saying that those dealers have no responsibility? Only Ford is at fault?
I mean, does it matter what I say? You know I don't find fault with their
This thread is about dealers having some responsibility, and it isn't all Ford's fault. So, are you saying that a dealer who chose to dramatically oversell their projected allocation by dramatically undercutting pricing, has no fault at all in this....it's all Ford's fault? What are you saying?

Folks keep saying Ford changed the rules and went to an allocation system the second year. We have shown that Ford had the allocation system from the beginning. Folks have argued that Ford said they would fill reservations first, and it has been clearly shown that Ford from the beginning said that filling orders by reservations date was still subject to parts availability and dealers allocations. So, what is your argument? Is your only argument that the 2022 allocation formula is different from the 2021 formula? OK, what was the 2021 formula to prove that it's different now? And, so it's different. That doesn't change the topic of this thread that some dealers chose to WAY over sell their expected allocation by dramatic price undercutting. And has some responsibility in that. Are you saying that those dealers have no responsibility? Only Ford is at fault?
Does it matter what I say? You know I don't find fault in their actions. They decided to do things differently. To the benefit of customers, and the detriment of those too greedy to do likewise. I will not see fault in that. At this time, the status quo is being defended with the allocation change. That's my stance, we're not going to have the same one.
 

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You would think if overselling and undercutting the Bronco was genius, more than three dealers would have followed suit. Surely three small dealers didn't outsmart thousands of larger, more successful dealers.... interesting concept.
So, a dealership has allocation for 203 Broncos at 1000 below invoice or greater. Since I understand initial orders were at 2000 below, let's say 1250 below invoice average and use that number. As an example, my dealership, which is on that 150 top dealers list that someone posted, got about 60 allocated (with over 100 orders, BTW). Ok, assuming hold back is 3%, and assuming there is after sale profit on financing, ext warranties, etc etc of, say, $700, lets just look at sales gross profit. An Outer Banks has $1378 profit at MSRP, let's assume that adding options and packages gets that up to $2000. Let's assume an average Bronco invoice of $42000 (just picking a rough number), so holdback is $1260.

So, below invoice dealer makes $1260 + $700 - 1250 = $710 x 203 units = $144130
MSRP dealer makes $1260 + $700 + $2000 = 3960 x 60 units = $237600

Below invoice dealer is working considerably harder to make their $144130 than MSRP dealer is working to make their $237600. And, we can't forget that time is money so all of that time spent dealing with all of those extra units has a considerable cost, both money and energy.

And, MSRP dealer has mostly happy customers, and below invoice dealer has a bunch of pissed off customers. MSRP dealer is waiting for more Broncos to show up, while below invoice dealer is scrambling to communicate and pacify all of it's order holders who won't be getting their Broncos for a long time.

Oh, but perception is that below invoice dealer is a hero, and is loved by all. Perception is an amazing thing.
 

goatman

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Does it matter what I say? You know I don't find fault in their actions. They decided to do things differently. To the benefit of customers, and the detriment of those too greedy to do likewise. I will not see fault in that. At this time, the status quo is being defended with the allocation change. That's my stance, we're not going to have the same one.
So, any business that sells their product at a fair price is greedy? Seriously?

I think we can easily make a point that the dealership who chose a marketing strategy to sell over 1000 Broncos when other dealerships were going to sell 100's is the one who is greedy. You're saying that selling at MSRP, or even selling at invoice is greedy? Why don't you dramatically discount your labor rate to your employer, so you won't be so greedy.

Unreal.
 

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So, any business that sells their product at a fair price is greedy? Seriously?

I think we can easily make a point that the dealership who chose a marketing strategy to sell over 1000 Broncos when other dealerships were going to sell 100's is the one who is greedy. You're saying that selling at MSRP, or even selling at invoice is greedy? Why don't you dramatically discount your labor rate to your employer, so you won't be so greedy.

Unreal.
You have your dealership viewpoint. At the corporate level Ford knows this is their responsibility.

- Ford created the reservation system.
- Ford collected $100 from customers for a reservation slot.
- Ford let those customers choose the dealer they wanted to conduct the purchase with (as opposed to Zip Code funneling leads to dealers in a distributed system).
- Ford continued taking reservations for over a year knowing there was a channel conflict growing.
- Ford could have communicated to dealers at any point to stop taking reservations.
- Ford could have shut down the reservation system at any point.
- Ford could have reached out to customers with reservations at any point and told them there are supply and allocation issues and that they may not be able to purchase from the dealer they selected.
- Ford changed the terms of service quietly behind the scenes.
- Ford communicated how this reservation would work and then backtracked to the detriment of customers.
- Ford failed to communicate effectively with both customers and dealers on all this.

In the end Ford has ultimate responsibility to their customers and there were numerous times over the last year plus to reign in problems with the system and dealers.
 

Jhopkinson

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So, any business that sells their product at a fair price is greedy? Seriously?

I think we can easily make a point that the dealership who chose a marketing strategy to sell over 1000 Broncos when other dealerships were going to sell 100's is the one who is greedy. You're saying that selling at MSRP, or even selling at invoice is greedy? Why don't you dramatically discount your labor rate to your employer, so you won't be so greedy.

Unreal.

The flaw in your argument is most dealers aren't willing to sell at invoice or MSRP....they are charging ADM's!
 

Bronc-O

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The flaw in your argument is most dealers aren't willing to sell at invoice or MSRP....they are charging ADM's!
Once production finally hits full speed, I believe this issue will start going away. Most dealers will have a few on their lots and private sellers also. Many are taking full advantage while they can, but it can only last so long.
 

Daktari

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so, the ones that could clear up a lot of confusion and made up conspiracies here are the few dealers with all those discount orders. Why don't they chime in and tell us they talked to Ford or their rep and got the official go ahead to pile up way over 1000 orders for the new hot thing Ford makes? They are strangely quiet.
Did they have conversations after they had 500 orders in (way more than they could expect to get allocated) and what was the outcome? I don't know. They might be the nicest people on earth, but transparent? Not since these discussions about them started. Why not? If they got the official go ahead via e-mail or what ever system there might be, show it and we can all blame Ford corp for changing things and screwing them and all their customers over. I just haven't seen one single piece of evidence that there ever was a thought of 'maybe we should cap this now'. Maybe there was? Show it then, be transparent.
Everyone here is only making up their own stuff, two echo chambers colliding won't get any results.
It's awful that so many are caught up in this utter nonsense because either dealer or Ford or more likely both showed a total lack of planning and thinking things through. Ford won't ever reply, no corporation ever does and if they do it's lawyer approved wishywashy useless stuff. But the dealers that ran with this business model and raked in orders from all over the country sure have the information to shine some light on the situation. Where is it?

That being said, I would think Ford will come up with some system to help the customers that went for this deal, they want to sell you that Bronco, they want your money. But they also can't give a couple dealers any special treatments and allocate 1000 units and not offer the same to the rest of the 3000+ dealers in the country. And that's just not possible.

I truly hope there will be a solution for all of you that have a reservation with these dealers, it's only fair, you followed the path shown and nobody can expect a customer to question the map provided if the dealer they choose accepts their order, fully knowing that the customer expects their Bronco within a reasonable amount of time and not years from now. Nobody would have placed an order with them for those small savings if they knew it would be a '23 or later delivery. It sucks and the dealers need to speak up on here and come clean and help figure out what to do.

I'd like to hear their side instead of wading through 24 pages of made up assumptions and conspiracies.

I don't have a horse in this race, I'm not a Ford fanboy either, never had one before this, never looked at them until the Bronco reveal made me throw out my Rubicon build I had planned to order. Oh, never had a Jeep before either.

What ever, these threads are just turning in endless circles and the ones that could shine some light and offer some real information are oddly absent and quiet. Why?
 

cowman

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The flaw in your argument is most dealers aren't willing to sell at invoice or MSRP....they are charging ADM's!
No one is twisting their arms to buy with ADM’s… it’s the dealers Bronco… they paid for it… now people pay the price or walk…. Simple… :). Someone will step up to the plate and buy… always have always will…
 

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The flaw in your argument is most dealers aren't willing to sell at invoice or MSRP....they are charging ADM's!
And your info is based on what? The poster said only dealers who sold below invoice were fair and honest. I challenged that statement. There was no argument. Many people here have said they paid MSRP. Only a few have said they paid ADM.

Regarding what this thread is about, a few of us are simply saying that the below invoice dealers who chose that marketing strategy, and took WAY more orders than they had any chance of having allocation for, have some amount of responsibility in this. That's it. Do you disagree with that?
 

Bronc-O

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so, the ones that could clear up a lot of confusion and made up conspiracies here are the few dealers with all those discount orders. Why don't they chime in and tell us they talked to Ford or their rep and got the official go ahead to pile up way over 1000 orders for the new hot thing Ford makes? They are strangely quiet.
Did they have conversations after they had 500 orders in (way more than they could expect to get allocated) and what was the outcome? I don't know. They might be the nicest people on earth, but transparent? Not since these discussions about them started. Why not? If they got the official go ahead via e-mail or what ever system there might be, show it and we can all blame Ford corp for changing things and screwing them and all their customers over. I just haven't seen one single piece of evidence that there ever was a thought of 'maybe we should cap this now'. Maybe there was? Show it then, be transparent.
Everyone here is only making up their own stuff, two echo chambers colliding won't get any results.
It's awful that so many are caught up in this utter nonsense because either dealer or Ford or more likely both showed a total lack of planning and thinking things through. Ford won't ever reply, no corporation ever does and if they do it's lawyer approved wishywashy useless stuff. But the dealers that ran with this business model and raked in orders from all over the country sure have the information to shine some light on the situation. Where is it?

That being said, I would think Ford will come up with some system to help the customers that went for this deal, they want to sell you that Bronco, they want your money. But they also can't give a couple dealers any special treatments and allocate 1000 units and not offer the same to the rest of the 3000+ dealers in the country. And that's just not possible.

I truly hope there will be a solution for all of you that have a reservation with these dealers, it's only fair, you followed the path shown and nobody can expect a customer to question the map provided if the dealer they choose accepts their order, fully knowing that the customer expects their Bronco within a reasonable amount of time and not years from now. Nobody would have placed an order with them for those small savings if they knew it would be a '23 or later delivery. It sucks and the dealers need to speak up on here and come clean and help figure out what to do.

I'd like to hear their side instead of wading through 24 pages of made up assumptions and conspiracies.

I don't have a horse in this race, I'm not a Ford fanboy either, never had one before this, never looked at them until the Bronco reveal made me throw out my Rubicon build I had planned to order. Oh, never had a Jeep before either.

What ever, these threads are just turning in endless circles and the ones that could shine some light and offer some real information are oddly absent and quiet. Why?
I doubt they have a plan this soon. They likely didn't expect this to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to sweeten the pot with another $1-2k to encourage customers to hang on. Perhaps the longer the expected wait, the sweeter the deal.
 

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I doubt they have a plan this soon. They likely didn't expect this to happen. I wouldn't be surprised if they try to sweeten the pot with another $1-2k to encourage customers to hang on. Perhaps the longer the expected wait, the sweeter the deal.
well, they're free to state their side of the story, so far I've only read some sappy grandpa story that - while nice - is irrelevant. I'll wait to hear their side and I'll skip over all the other conspiracy and made up assumption posts, but I'd really like to know what went on and why they thought taking in over 1000 orders was a good idea and would work out within 2022. Let's hear it, I'm all ears. Or eyes, or what ever you call it on a screen. So far they've only managed to clutter some Ford twitter accounts (as if Levine etc actually reads and replies to that account themselves, LOL), but haven't given any info about their side and thought of reasoning. At least none that I have seen. IMO expecting to get way over 1000 units allocated was naive for a 'small town' dealer. But I don't know, which is why some clarity and insight from them would be nice by now. I just don't see that famous 'transparency' they seem to be known for here.

Again, and you can put as many childish barf emojis as you want underneath, I feel bad for all the customers caught up in this mess, but don't feel bad for the dealers that made it happen, they took the orders, they must have had a plan one would hope. And they have not provided any insight that would actually show that the mothership gave them the go ahead and later turned the ship around. Show your cards...
Allocations have been a thing since for ever and the formulas change all the time, they know that.
 

bdub2you

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so, the ones that could clear up a lot of confusion and made up conspiracies here are the few dealers with all those discount orders. Why don't they chime in and tell us they talked to Ford or their rep and got the official go ahead to pile up way over 1000 orders for the new hot thing Ford makes? They are strangely quiet.
Did they have conversations after they had 500 orders in (way more than they could expect to get allocated) and what was the outcome? I don't know. They might be the nicest people on earth, but transparent? Not since these discussions about them started. Why not? If they got the official go ahead via e-mail or what ever system there might be, show it and we can all blame Ford corp for changing things and screwing them and all their customers over. I just haven't seen one single piece of evidence that there ever was a thought of 'maybe we should cap this now'. Maybe there was? Show it then, be transparent.

I don't have a horse in this race, I'm not a Ford fanboy either, never had one before this, never looked at them until the Bronco reveal made me throw out my Rubicon build I had planned to order. Oh, never had a Jeep before either.

What ever, these threads are just turning in endless circles and the ones that could shine some light and offer some real information are oddly absent and quiet. Why?
Your post reads as fanboy as any I've ever read. On July 13th, 2020 and July 14th when most reservations were placed the deal was spelled out in the FAQs that dealership allocation was a thing of the past when it came to the bronco, and "Reservations will be fulfilled in approximately the same order received, based on final ordering and production of similarly configured Broncos." That changed about 4-6 months later when "allocations" magically was added into the equation. You're saying that it's somehow the discount dealerships' faults because they should have magically anticipated that Ford would change the rules about 6 months later. I have to ask you the same question you ask others...why? Your comment reads very trollish to me, I'll assume you don't intend it that way, but here is why everyone assumed that Ford would build them in approximately the same timestamp order as reservations...it's because that's what they said when most people placed their reservations. You can't blame dealers for expecting Ford to stay true to their word, and then developing a strategy to sell the most vehicles based on Ford's word.
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