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Why do they have such a hard time deciding to put the 5.0 in?

OX1

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Next year the 5.0L will have cylinder deactivation, even if it only results in 1 MPG increase it would put it on par with the 3.5TT eco boost.

I’ll also point you to FCA, you can find articles online estimating the amount that CAFE fines cost them per car. To put it lightly it’s inconsequential.
Just looked for that number but didn't find it easily, would like to know if you have any articles handy.
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FirstOnRaceDay

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You guys conceding already for Ford, that was quick (what happened to trouncing jeep on all levels??). Wrangler on 40's is not that radical.

Duh your getting 20+mpg highway. It’s bigger tires.
Big tires are good for highway
Small tires are good for city.

I bet you I’d you daily that Jeep with 40s in the city you’ll be lucky to crack 10mpg
 

NCOBX

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Just looked for that number but didn't find it easily, would like to know if you have any articles handy.
Cafe fines are $55 per MPG per vehicle.
https://blog.ucsusa.org/dave-cooke/...cally-reduces-penalties-for-auto-inefficiency

Current Fuel economy standards (different from projected estimates posted several years back) for light TRUCKs was just under 30MPG (27 from some sources) sorry but this number is a bch to find.

If this is the case selling a Bronco with a 20MPG V8 would result in a $385 fine for Ford, this is NOT taking into account loopholes, for which there are some. If they offer e-85 capability they actually GET credits Cafe standards assume the vehicle will run 50%-50%. This reduces the actualized fine.

I don’t think anyone would complain about a $500 upcharge for a V8.



—————

FCA paid 77M in 2018

https://www.autoweek.com/news/a1716...issing-fuel-economy-requirements-report-says/

Total vehicle sales amounted to 2.24M vehicles in 2018

https://www.autonews.com/sales/fca-jeep-ram-records-spur-85-boost-2018-total

Amounts to a fine of $38.34 spread evenly across every vehicle produced.

I’m not seeing the breakdown per model.
 

OX1

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Duh your getting 20+mpg highway. It’s bigger tires.
Big tires are good for highway
Small tires are good for city.

I bet you I’d you daily that Jeep with 40s in the city you’ll be lucky to crack 10mpg
Seriously, that is your answer? You think you need a Buggy for 40 " tires. I show one of many wrangler street rigs that run 40's, and you come back with mileage comments??
 

OX1

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I don’t think anyone would complain about a $500 upcharge for a V8.
Thanks. It's a nothingburger like I thought. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise.
Probably making 20 grand profit on the higher end V-8's.
 

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NCOBX

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Thanks. It's a nothingburger like I thought. They wouldn't be doing it otherwise.
Probably making 20 grand profit on the higher end V-8's.
They’re making a killing even on the $38k 392 Hemis. There’s a reason FCA hasn’t dropped the LX platform. It’s a printing press with all development costs long paid for.

Compare that to the now out of production Impala where the platform was significantly newer with higher costs, the base price was higher and the upcharge engine was about on par with the Chargers base engine performance and economy wise.

Point is people will pay for what they want. If they have to settle for an option they’re not enthusiastic about they are less likely to make the purchase and certainly less likely to move up trim levels. Paying a small “bribe” to a corrupt government agency for the “privilege” to spend ones money to buy the product they want, should not be of issue.

If the Mach-e turns out to be all that and a bag of chips then there likely won’t be any penalty.
 
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Laminar

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Your confusing needs with wants.
"Your" confusing everything I said.

I said nothing of Mustang owners.

Just what the Mustang needs to be competitive in its space. It's got 3 different V8 engines, and all of them make enough power that a V8 makes sense.
 

NCOBX

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"Your" confusing everything I said.

I said nothing of Mustang owners.

Just what the Mustang needs to be competitive in its space. It's got 3 different V8 engines, and all of them make enough power that a V8 makes sense.
You were talking of Mustangs, therefore I think it’s reasonable to make the comparison.
No one needs a V8 Mustang, but Ford sells them because people want them. Same goes for the Bronco it “needs” a V8, because there are many people that “want” to spend their money on that option.

You can’t bring “needs” into an argument about a brand new $30k 4x4 off-road vehicle.
 

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You were talking of Mustangs, therefore I think it’s reasonable to make the comparison.
No one needs a V8 Mustang, but Ford sells them because people want them. Same goes for the Bronco it “needs” a V8, because there are many people that “want” to spend their money on that option.

You can’t bring “needs” into an argument about a brand new $30k 4x4 off-road vehicle.
Mustang has a V8 for the high end torque speed that you virtually can only get in a v8.

People want a v8 f150 for the torque to pull and haul. And let me tell you a secret. The 2.7 makes more low end torque (for the most part). And gets better mpg. That’s why so many more people buy the 2.7 vs 5.0

If the mustang had the 2.7 it wouldn’t sell as well because it would have the top end speed that people want with a mustang.
 

NCOBX

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Mustang has a V8 for the high end torque speed that you virtually can only get in a v8.

People want a v8 f150 for the torque to pull and haul. And let me tell you a secret. The 2.7 makes more low end torque (for the most part). And gets better mpg. That’s why so many more people buy the 2.7 vs 5.0

If the mustang had the 2.7 it wouldn’t sell as well because it would have the top end speed that people want with a mustang.
I think the differences in torque have been plenty well covered in this thread, and so too has the general dislike of the non -linear output of the 2.7L.

I don’t think anyone cares about the minimal difference in fuel economy on a stock vs stock comparison but there is a lot of question on how bad the economy would be in the 2.7L when owners start moving up tires sizes, changing gears, adding heavy off-road equipment and end up with an engine that’s rolling down the highway either well under the sweet spot (struggling) or is always in boost (getting poor fuel economy)

The nature of the 2.7Ts power curve and how it maintains a balance is a question no one buying a N/A V8 would need to think about.
 

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You were talking of Mustangs, therefore I think it’s reasonable to make the comparison.
No one needs a V8 Mustang
You're still missing it. I'm not talking about what people need. I'm talking about what the car needs.

I think the differences in torque have been plenty well covered in this thread, and so too has the general dislike of the non -linear output of the 2.7L.
No, there are like two people here who don't understand how engines work that keep banging this "non-linear power" drum in an effort to justify their preference for V8s. It doesn't make it true or a good point.

It should be enough to say, "I like V8s" without having to come up with all of these fake made-up reasons to try and pretend that there's some kind of logical justification for your preference.
 

NCOBX

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You're still missing it. I'm not talking about what people need. I'm talking about what the car needs.



No, there are like two people here who don't understand how engines work that keep banging this "non-linear power" drum in an effort to justify their preference for V8s. It doesn't make it true or a good point.

It should be enough to say, "I like V8s" without having to come up with all of these fake made-up reasons to try and pretend that there's some kind of logical justification for your preference.
What the car needs? The car is inanimate, it’s needs are nonexistent. A car is a product that a consumer purchases, it “needs” to meet their “wants”.

I am fairly certain I understand how engines work, I may be no “Super expert” but between the mechanical hands on experience of pulling multiple engines apart and rebuilding them all successfully, taking college classes in Thermodynamics 1 & 2 & Heat and mass transfer, and spending a great deal of time around professional engine builders and drag racers - I think I have enough understanding of how an engine works.

The effort to make everyone here believe that the 2.7L is a better engine for this vehicle is not effective unless the facts and science are to be ignored.

As you said, just say you prefer turbo engines and move on, the facts are not on your side.
 

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Its probably been said a dozen times already but given theyre not even putting the 5.0 in the raptor I think it would be a stretch to consider them putting it in the bronco...
 

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