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Why do they have such a hard time deciding to put the 5.0 in?

NCOBX

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I showed how pointless it is to care about what happens below 2000rpm, which some people seem to keep caring about.



Hahahaha, first it was all about how V8s make way better linear power from idle to 2000rpm, and now all of a sudden it's about maintaining power above 5000rpm?

goalposts.gif
You literally moved the goalposts and now you want me to take responsibility?

You asked where can the non-linearity be found, I pointed it out. Accept it.
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xXChartmanXx

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It has nothing to do with power.
It has everything to do with size and purpose

1 it might BARELY fit but good luck making it Maintenance and Assembly Friendly

2 likely wouldn’t pass crash tests

3 won’t pass emissions tests in most countries (if it’s going globally)

4 Demand for v8s is PLUMMETING. Mustang (excluding Shelby) and F-150 demand is only getting lower

5 THE BIGGEST reason
The upcoming (2023+) Raptor/Warthog version is getting the 3.0 Ecoboost with 400hp 415 (similar peak numbers to 5.0) but the ecoboost has more low end balls.

at the end of the day. Ecoboost motors are better any way you shake it, the only nice thing about the v8 is the exhaust tone
And no one has mentioned one of the biggest reasons the V8's are going away. Federal and State regulations for fuel economy and emissions. The auto makers are under pressure to make their vehicles cleaner with more gas mileage and those big V8's just don't cut it. Within a decade, the only V8's and up will be on commercial vehicles and what they term "Specialty" cars (i.e. GT500's, etc...) to skate those regulations. No too mention the electric cars coming for all the combustion engines. More power, more torque, less emissions, but 0 sound.... Someone is gonna have to come up with a speaker system to give us our fake throaty growls with our quiet electric cars.
 

FirstOnRaceDay

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Also if your worried about that little bit of turbo lag. The Raptor f150 has An anti lag mode. (When in Baja) I’m sure it will be in rock mode too for the bronco.
 

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You literally moved the goalposts and now you want me to take responsibility?

You asked where can the non-linearity be found, I pointed it out. Accept it.
I accept that stock EcoBoosts see power peak and then drop off before redline. But the 5.0 does the same thing. Maybe to a different degree, and maybe at a different RPM, but power drops off. Would you be happier if they lowered the rev limiter so that power didn't have a chance to drop off after it peaked? You'd lose usable rev range but at least the power would meet this mythical linearity you seem to think matters so much (though you can't quantify the benefits).
 

NCOBX

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I accept that stock EcoBoosts see power peak and then drop off before redline. But the 5.0 does the same thing. Maybe to a different degree, and maybe at a different RPM, but power drops off. Would you be happier if they lowered the rev limiter so that power didn't have a chance to drop off after it peaked? You'd lose usable rev range but at least the power would meet this mythical linearity you seem to think matters so much (though you can't quantify the benefits).
Since we’re on the subject of redline...

The eco boosts torque @
3500RPM - 425
4000 - 400
6000 - 275

5.0 Torque @
3500 - 378
4000 - 400
6000 - 368

5.0 does not lose 150lbs as the 2.7 does by redline. Not even close to similar.

You haven’t asked anyone to quantity the benefits, I wouldn’t think it necessary on an off-roader. Big tires + D44s go boom real fast, not as fast as aluminum diffs in the front, but none the less linearity should be a given.
 

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Laminar

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You haven’t asked anyone to quantity the benefits, I wouldn’t think it necessary on an off-roader. Big tires + D44s go boom real fast, not as fast as aluminum diffs in the front, but none the less linearity should be a given.
So because the EcoBoost's power drops off more quickly as it approaches redline, it's less linear than the V8, so it's MORE likely to cause driveline damage?
 

FirstOnRaceDay

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Since we’re on the subject of redline...

The eco boosts torque @
3500RPM - 425
4000 - 400
6000 - 275

5.0 Torque @
3500 - 378
4000 - 400
6000 - 368

5.0 does not lose 150lbs as the 2.7 does by redline. Not even close to similar.

You haven’t asked anyone to quantity the benefits, I wouldn’t think it necessary on an off-roader. Big tires + D44s go boom real fast, not as fast as aluminum diffs in the front, but none the less linearity should be a given.
but high rpm torque is mostly only used for top end speed. 50-80mph pulls. How many people are going to be doing that in a BRONCO. Mustang sure but not a 73” tall box.
 

NCOBX

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So because the EcoBoost's power drops off more quickly as it approaches redline, it's less linear than the V8, so it's MORE likely to cause driveline damage?
I figured you would have noticed the change in pace. The first half of the comment is separate from the last paragraph. Now re-read
 

NCOBX

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but high rpm torque is mostly only used for top end speed. 50-80mph pulls. How many people are going to be doing that in a BRONCO. Mustang sure but not a 73” tall box.
I don’t think so either but that’s the scenario I was given.
 

Fordboi

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I'm really wondering how much the 392 Wrangler will be and how popular now that it's all but guaranteed to be coming out soon. I think if it does well, it will expedite Ford putting it in. The 392 10 speed cars are just dynamite so Im waiting and seeing. Good to have competition.
idk how many times i've said this. The 392 jeep wrangler has been a concept since SEMA 2011!! not gonna go into production!!:mad:
Ford Bronco Why do they have such a hard time deciding to put the 5.0 in? 1596051580704
 

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I figured you would have noticed the change in pace. The first half of the comment is separate from the last paragraph. Now re-read
To sum up your argument A:
- A linear powerband is necessary for a good offroad engine
*because*
- A linear powerband prevents damage to drivetrain components (presumably because sudden, large increases in power production can be unpredictable)

Couple that with your previous argument B:
- The EcoBoost's powerband is nonlinear
*because*
- In the top of its RPM range, power production drops off more quickly than the Coyote's power does

If A and B are both true, that doesn't disqualify the EcoBoost from being a good offroad engine. It doesn't have sudden increases of power, it just has a gradual dropoff up top.
 

stickshifter

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Besides sound what are you getting with a Coyote?
1. Better sound
2. Better engine braking - which is great for both steep off-road descents and long on-road descents (both of which are common in Colorado).
3. More linear power - which (in my experience) is more predictable, and feels safer in winter driving conditions. I live at 8,500 feet, so winter is loooong.
4. Better sound :D

The two downsides to the Coyote are (1) power comes on higher in the RPMs than with the ecoboost engines, and (2) naturally aspirated engines lose significant power at elevation. You got to give it up to Ford's ecoboost engines - they have great low-end torque, and are awesome at elevation.
 

thenewjs

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It has nothing to do with power.
It has everything to do with size and purpose

1 it might BARELY fit but good luck making it Maintenance and Assembly Friendly

2 likely wouldn’t pass crash tests

3 won’t pass emissions tests in most countries (if it’s going globally)

4 Demand for v8s is PLUMMETING. Mustang (excluding Shelby) and F-150 demand is only getting lower

5 THE BIGGEST reason
The upcoming (2023+) Raptor/Warthog version is getting the 3.0 Ecoboost with 400hp 415 (similar peak numbers to 5.0) but the ecoboost has more low end balls.

at the end of the day. Ecoboost motors are better any way you shake it, the only nice thing about the v8 is the exhaust tone
Tell that to a TEXAN!
 

Shirt8u1

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If they can put the 5.0 into a $35K mainstream car, why are they so hesitant to put it into the Bronco? I never understood this conceptually. Does it not fit or something? I mean it's got a solid real axle, surely the current chasis can easily handle the power without any other modifications. Basically why are pony cars the only place car makers put affordable V8s?
Yeap,
I dont think it fits from what I read,
but would a V-8 option also.
Maybe one day.
Not holding my breath on this One..
 

NCOBX

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To sum up your argument A:
- A linear powerband is necessary for a good offroad engine
*because*
- A linear powerband prevents damage to drivetrain components (presumably because sudden, large increases in power production can be unpredictable)

Couple that with your previous argument B:
- The EcoBoost's powerband is nonlinear
*because*
- In the top of its RPM range, power production drops off more quickly than the Coyote's power does

If A and B are both true, that doesn't disqualify the EcoBoost from being a good offroad engine. It doesn't have sudden increases of power, it just has a gradual dropoff up top.
I’m not sure what your doing in Summary A, a linear powertrain IS important to prevent component damage. A linear powertrain is also much more enjoyable to drive. A drivetrain that peaks in the middle of the range is frustrating when your trying to get up and go. But that has nothing to do with off-roading just a carry on of your original post on the issue.

I think we’ve gone over several times that the issue with the ecoboost is where it starts making power, not the end of the RPM range that you have been fighting about all day.
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