Why is the Toyota 4runner "behind?"

zaki

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America and Germany and Italy and England have a passion for the automobile and their products show it.
Some of the products from these countries are more reliable than others but that is not their number one priority.

Japanese automakers are by and large primarily interested in manufacturing very reliable appliances which impress the customers not because of the excitement they generate but the value for their hard earned dollar.

Japanese automakers don’t even KNOW it when they have a product that creates excitement and passion! That is why they abandoned jewels like the Supra, NSX, RX7 and the FJ40/70 just because the number of units being sold here did not satisfy their bean counters.

So if the appliance is selling units the primary purpose of the business is satisfied.

It is only recently that Toyota/Lexus have started talking of injecting some fun/passion into their appliances.

And this is from a Toyota/Lexus guy.
I love the utter reliability of their appliances.?

If US product reliability had been anywhere near that of the Japanese I would have never bought anything but made in the ??.
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John B+9

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Hey there. Just to set the tone, I have a reservation on a 2021 Bronco and I'm really enthusiastic about it. I am not a Toyota troll. That said, the poster I responded to said Toyota is 10-15 years behind the competition in terms of tech (what?). And now - "so they lead in powertrain - what about everywhere else?" (what??) Ok, I'll play.

Here are Toyota's bread and butter vehicles, with 2019 U.S. sales figures (Toyota total US sales 2,085,235):

RAV4, 448,071
Camry, 336,978
Corolla, 304,850
Tacoma, 248,801
Highlander, 239,438


Setting aside Tacoma which is due for a refresh, the others are class leaders in terms of tech.
 

edgeflyer

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Ok, maybe I'm stupid to wade into this. And I have owned an 2014 FJ, a 2007 4Runner, a 1990 Toyota Pickup and the wife has a Toyota-built Lexus, so you'll call me ridiculously biased.

But I have also owned a '66 Mustang, '73 Charger, Xterra, Jeep Grand Cherokee, S-10 Blazer (3 of them) and a 2011 Equinox (which was an unrivaled P.O.S.). Let's remove the classics because they were labors of lust and above reproach.

Of all those cars, the Toyotas all had the fewest recalls or work needed, even though I have owned them the longest (other than my first car, and '86 S-10). The Xterra drove like a wobbly radio flyer put together by a 4-year-old with a hammer. T Jeep had the worst transmission of any car I have ever owned. Absolute $h!t. The Equinox was an unmitigated abomination. Trash. Got rid of it after pistons and rings were replaced under warranty before 18K miles and the contents of the transfer case exploded at 21K.

Sure, Toyota had to issue many brutal recalls for airbags manufactured by a third party, damaging their reputation. And there's no doubt Toyota has had more than its fair share of recall programs overall in the past decade. The minute Toyota moved some of its trucks out of Japan was the minute they started losing the same top-shelf quality control and fit and finish I love about their vehicles. One of the best things about my FJ is that it was built at the Hino truck factory in Japan, before they handed off Tacomas to the US.

But there is a damned good reason people talk about their reliability, and unless you have owned them for long periods, you aren't in a position to thrown them out like yesterday's stanky baby diapers just because you have seen the list of recalls. All of my Toyotas have run over 100K miles flawlessly. The '90 pickup is running beautifully at 160K. My FJ just hit 102K and I plan to keep it until the zombies eat my hands off to steal the key.

I completely agree with folks who say Toyota is light years behind in tech. It is frustrating at times. That made the Bronco instantly attractive to me, no doubt. But you can either deal with that or you can't, and I can. I quickly replaced/upgraded the few basic things I could, like NAV and audio, in both my 4Runner and FJ. (My dad had an Avalon that I sold when he died, and while it had a lesser degree of outdated tech, it was still built to run for 250K+.)

Maybe you owned a $h!tty Toyota and if so, then I get it. But they have a reputation that is based on tens of thousands -- maybe hundreds -- of owners who have driven them long past 200K miles. And the proof to me is in the offers from people right off the street that I get for not only the FJ ($32K at 100K miles), but the '90 pickup. Last one I got was $10K cash for it, and all it has added to it is cheap JVC stereo and an OME suspension. People believe, even if others are rightly skeptical due to recall reports.
Never owned one, but did fix them for a living. Along with every other major brand. If it makes you feel any better, Honda isn't as good as people think either. Chrysler's sell well to right now, does that mean they are reliable? You think the average Ford doesn't go 200K? Do you get that info from reading forums? I would say I am in a better position than you to comment on vehicle reliability. Here's your diaper back.
 

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Never owned one, but did fix them for a living. Along with every other major brand. If it makes you feel any better, Honda isn't as good as people think either. Chrysler's sell well to right now, does that mean they are reliable? You think the average Ford doesn't go 200K? Do you get that info from reading forums? I would say I am in a better position than you to comment on vehicle reliability. Here's your diaper back.
Sorry, but if you think I'm butthurt, or blasting you, you're making an incorrect assumption. Just providing a different viewpoint than what you offered. I also tried to show that I've had some experience with various makers, though clearly not as much as you say you have. If you don't like 'em, leave 'em, as I did with Chevys, Nissans and Jeeps.

Edit: And, if I was down on Fords, I wouldn't be buying one. I have several friends who have had them and am relying at least partially on their informed experience to guide me.
 

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Sorry, but if you think I'm butthurt, or blasting you, you're making an incorrect assumption. Just providing a different viewpoint than what you offered. I also tried to show that I've had some experience with various makers, though clearly not as much as you say you have. If you don't like 'em, leave 'em, as I did with Chevys, Nissans and Jeeps.

Edit: And, if I was down on Fords, I wouldn't be buying one. I have several friends who have had them and am relying at least partially on their informed experience to guide me
 

edgeflyer

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It's all good. I don't think Toyotas are bad vehicles, but so many people hold certain brands on a pedestal and it goes against everything I know. To be fair, everything I say about Ford goes for their trucks ONLY! ;)
 

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Toyota is losing reliability every year. The Tacoma first, now it's going to be the 4runner likely too as they install Turbo's and try to play catchup...

And 4runner will be built in America now once all the truck platforms merge.

Subjective-And the new 4runners are ugly compared to a few generations ago when they looked simple
 

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America and Germany and Italy and England have a passion for the automobile and their products show it.
Some of the products from these countries are more reliable than others but that is not their number one priority.

Japanese automakers are by and large primarily interested in manufacturing very reliable appliances which impress the customers not because of the excitement they generate but the value for their hard earned dollar.

Japanese automakers don’t even KNOW it when they have a product that creates excitement and passion! That is why they abandoned jewels like the Supra, NSX, RX7 and the FJ40/70 just because the number of units being sold here did not satisfy their bean counters.

So if the appliance is selling units the primary purpose of the business is satisfied.

It is only recently that Toyota/Lexus have started talking of injecting some fun/passion into their appliances.

And this is from a Toyota/Lexus guy.
I love the utter reliability of their appliances.?

If US product reliability had been anywhere near that of the Japanese I would have never bought anything but made in the ??.
GM abandoned the Camaro. Ford abandoned - wait for it - the Bronco! Let that sink in. Really let it sink in. Of course both of those are back now, but I have proven my point. I do believe. Manufactures build - here’s another jaw dropper - vehicles that sell! I’m on a roll today. Yeehaw!!
 

zaki

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GM abandoned the Camaro. Ford abandoned - wait for it - the Bronco! Let that sink in. Really let it sink in. Of course both of those are back now, but I have proven my point. I do believe. Manufactures build - here’s another jaw dropper - vehicles that sell! I’m on a roll today. Yeehaw!!
I think there is no argument that Ford and GM both care more about cars that make the heart beat faster than the makers of the Corolla, Camry, Avalon, Sienna....shall I go on?

Of course there are exceptions to every rule but one can only speak of the generally acceptable rules.
 

GaryB2220

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Yes, They are heavy and slow. But they run at levels that battery put any stress on the engine or mechanicals. The things are tough as hell and the important parts are all but guaranteed to last 200k miles on stock parts. They are not behind on terms of reliability and engineering. They are behind in terms of power and mpg
 

zaki

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GM abandoned the Camaro. Ford abandoned - wait for it - the Bronco! Let that sink in. Really let it sink in. Of course both of those are back now, but I have proven my point. I do believe. Manufactures build - here’s another jaw dropper - vehicles that sell! I’m on a roll today. Yeehaw!!
I think there is no argument that Ford and GM both care more about cars that make the heart beat faster than the makers of the Corolla, Camry, Avalon, Sienna....shall I go on?

GM always had their Corvette and Ford their Mustang even though they stopped making the Camaro and the Bronco.

That Toyota has no pride or understanding of what is passion for an automobile is best illustrated by their letting BMW pee over the grave of the legendary Supra. Ask yourself, will Porsche ever do that to the 911 or GM to the Corvette? Never.
 

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I have a 2020 ZR2 Bison diesel now but in April 2012 I bought a 2012 FJ Cruiser. I really liked the vehicle. I had wanted to buy an FJ-40 back in 1980 but couldn't afford it new. Heck, I couldn't even afford one used at that time. I settled on a WW2 jeep that I still have. The only I remember that went wrong with it was the AC relay failed. That was a simple fix. The other thing was that the suicide doors were not very practical for family use. I ended up trading it for a 2016 Buick Enclave which was a comfy vehicle that would seat 7. I regretted that trade, but it sure was comfy. :) Traded the Buick for the 2020 ZR2. I don't think I will ever buy another Toyota because they cut the FJ without a good replacement.

The picture of the FJ was on the day I picked it up in 2012.
fjIMG_20120424_160731.jpg
 
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