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Will Ford offer a Warthog hybrid?

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dcmdon

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I dunno. Will the army offer an A-10 hybrid?
So here's a funny thing. Aircraft are TERRIBLE platforms for electrification or hybrid power.
1) they need to be light.
2) the efficiency benefits of electric or PHEV are gained in the stop and go of daily life. Aircraft run 90-100% power for the first few minutes, then back to ~75% power for the climb.
3) then 60% power during cruise.
4) the only time they recover any of the energy is in descent.

It just doesn't work.

I know your comment is tongue in cheek. But battery or PHEV aircraft are a pipe dream in all but the most constrained use cases. The 2000 lb battery in a Tesla, fully charged, contains as much energy as 2 gallons of gas.
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Abag

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So thinking about a PHEV out loud. Increased weight is a negative, Decrease in highway Fuel economy is a negative, increased cost of the vehicle is a negative, electrical issues when playing in water and mud (seems like a negative) increased cost in maintenance? might be a negative. for the additional 8-10K in price I would much rather have that in upgrades. Not on the PHEV band wagon yet. ICE is still my choice.
 

BossMann

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This would surely offend the “I want it to get 1mpg” fossil fuel bros

Oh, but it wouldn't and I love your elitism, it pours through your post and in no way constructive. Congrats on your internet skillz.

Hybrid power is a great tech. The fact that full electric is an immature technology, poor range, still powered by coal burning plants (for lots of us) and uses metals where the mining completely destroys the Earth, they're are plenty of reasons not to believe full electric is the answer... right now.

Electric assist/hybrid on the other hand has many advantages. I'd love to have the added torque rock climbing and mpg's in the 20's. Very exciting. Just not sure how durable the designs are if we are banging in the rocks.

2021, gas and hybrids all the way.
2031 with solid state and other tech, electric becomes more attractive.
 

NotApplicable

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Oh, but it wouldn't and I love your elitism, it pours through your post and in no way constructive. Congrats on your internet skillz.

Hybrid power is a great tech. The fact that full electric is an immature technology, poor range, still powered by coal burning plants (for lots of us) and uses metals where the mining completely destroys the Earth, they're are plenty of reasons not to believe full electric is the answer... right now.

Electric assist/hybrid on the other hand has many advantages. I'd love to have the added torque rock climbing and mpg's in the 20's. Very exciting. Just not sure how durable the designs are if we are banging in the rocks.

2021, gas and hybrids all the way.
2031 with solid state and other tech, electric becomes more attractive.
Dunno what got up your rear. I was referring to those on this forum who have argued that they specifically want under 15mpg on the Bronco because they love burning fossil fuels. Literally. If that’s you, and that makes me an “elitist,” I give zero cares.

I mostly agree with your points, but I think hybrid technology isn’t nearly as advantageous as you. I’m glad to see some governments starting to realize the same and beginning to work on bans.

Also, your EV timeline is inaccurately long. But there’s no point in debating it with a random member of the population now, just as there was no point in debating it with a random member of the population 5 years ago who thought there was no way BEV adoption would be where it is today. Technology moves much faster than most passive participants realize.
 

dcmdon

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Whether or not hybrid is a good economy booster largely is determined by how you drive.

If its stop and go, then a PHEV is fantastic. If its long highway trips, a diesel is going to be a better choice. Both make tons of torque. Both weigh more than a gas engine.

A diesel PHEV would be fantastic, but too expensive be very heavy.

Let me give you a personal experience. I have a front wheel drive Volvo S80. Its silver, the most boring car in the world. I got it when I had a job where I was going to be running 30k miles per year.

I ended up changing jobs within a month. But I did get some good data. I averaged almost 27 mpg of mostly highway driving.

Fast forward a year and my wife gets a 2 step promotion and we decide I'm going to stay home with the kids for a couple of years. My driving is now mostly around town in a semi-urban environment. I average 17.3 mpg when doing this kind of driving.

The ideal engine for the way I originally used my car would be a 4 cylinder 200 hp diesel. A friend had a VW Passat diesel and he got close to 40 mpg. He did a lot of driving like I did.

The ideal engine for what I did after I left that job would be a PHEV. My daily drive was about 20 miles. Mostly stop and go. In this situation, I could easily run 90% on electricity. Which in the northeast is actually green, since our electricity comes from hydro-electric and natural gas. (If you use an electric car in Atlanta, you have a coal powered car)
 

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BossMann

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Dunno what got up your rear. I was referring to those on this forum who have argued that they specifically want under 15mpg on the Bronco because they love burning fossil fuels. Literally. If that’s you, and that makes me an “elitist,” I give zero cares.

I mostly agree with your points, but I think hybrid technology isn’t nearly as advantageous as you. I’m glad to see some governments starting to realize the same and beginning to work on bans.

Also, your EV timeline is inaccurately long. But there’s no point in debating it with a random member of the population now, just as there was no point in debating it with a random member of the population 5 years ago who thought there was no way BEV adoption would be where it is today. Technology moves much faster than most passive participants realize.

Proud of you....
 

Imprezive

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I would be in for a PHEV Warthog. EV for most of my driving but maintains ability for long remote trips. People can fight against it all they want but EVs are the future and I can’t wait. Imagine how much nicer cities will be without all the air pollution and noise from traffic. I just wish there was a harder push for medium and heavy duty trucks. Local delivery trucks, garbage trucks, buses, etc are the biggest impacts In quality of life.
 

rivasrubicon

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I would be in for a PHEV Warthog. EV for most of my driving but maintains ability for long remote trips. People can fight against it all they want but EVs are the future and I can’t wait. Imagine how much nicer cities will be without all the air pollution and noise from traffic. I just wish there was a harder push for medium and heavy duty trucks. Local delivery trucks, garbage trucks, buses, etc are the biggest impacts In quality of life.
Yes, I am in for that too. I also think it is the future as well. Mining the resources cause for some to be truly concerned, but I think if we figure that out as well, EV is golden. As far as the Warthog, I am assuming it is going to be the aviator hybrid engine going in. What do you think about that?
 

AZ_Liberty

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Chevy has a lot of good data about how their Volt PHEV is being used.

The data shows that most are driven all electric between 90 and 95% of their accumulated miles.
They are getting cars in with 100k miles with only 5000 miles on the ICE.
This is what is known as a self-biasing sample. I love the "idea" of the Volt, but everyone I know who owns one lives within 10 miles of where they work.

If you live 20-30 miles from work, you wouldn't buy one. I have friends who only use gas in theirs when they visit Phoenix from California.

But if you do live super close to work, you can drive on electrons, charge at night, and only use gas if you need to drive across town or further.
 

dcmdon

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AZ, I agree.

If I had a 60 mile highway commute and wanted economy, diesel beats hybrid.

But the average commute is something like 25 minutes. If you figure an average speed during rush hour of 30 mph that's 25 miles.

The reality is that a lot oof people could use that thing and do 75% of their commute all electric. Then the rest with the stop and go efficiency of a hybrid.
 

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Imprezive

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Yes, I am in for that too. I also think it is the future as well. Mining the resources cause for some to be truly concerned, but I think if we figure that out as well, EV is golden. As far as the Warthog, I am assuming it is going to be the aviator hybrid engine going in. What do you think about that?
I’m also thinking the Aviator drivetrain. I’m ok with that.


This is what is known as a self-biasing sample. I love the "idea" of the Volt, but everyone I know who owns one lives within 10 miles of where they work.

If you live 20-30 miles from work, you wouldn't buy one. I have friends who only use gas in theirs when they visit Phoenix from California.

But if you do live super close to work, you can drive on electrons, charge at night, and only use gas if you need to drive across town or further.
You can definitely live 20-30 miles from work and use a PHEV especially since a lot of people can charge at work.
 

rivasrubicon

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When rumors first surfaced of the Warty, the Aviator hybrid drivetrain was speculated as the only power plant. I hope we get official details as soon as possible
YES. This is what I want. I am waiting to hope that this is what happens. I already am first on a waiting list and I would like that to be the option
 

rivasrubicon

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I know a guy who is a tech in a Chevy dealership. With over 10 years experience on the road Chevy has a lot of good data about how their Volt PHEV is being used.

The data shows that most are driven all electric between 90 and 95% of their accumulated miles.
They are getting cars in with 100k miles with only 5000 miles on the ICE.

The volt gets about 35miles all electric with a 17 kwh battery.
I think people are getting 20ish with their Wrangler 4xe in electric.

So the beauty of a PHEV is you get 95% of the benefits of all electric, with a battery that is 1/5th the size. AND you can drive it on a long trip without having to wait for it to charge.

Think about it. The PHEV isn't a compromise. Rather its the best of all worlds. BEV torque, economy and greenness. ICE range and convenience. Acceleration comparable to a V8.

Also, the production of lithium batteries is a miserable, filthy process. Some components are literally mined by slaves. If you can get 90% electric use with a battery that is only 1/5th the size. Its got to be the most "clean" choice. Cleaner than even a BEV.

I'm also of the opinion that people do "heroic" things like buy a BEV are often doing it as virtue signaling. Its not about how clean it actually is. Its about how its perceived.

A BEV Bronco or Jeep will appeal to 3 groups.
1) hard core rock crawlers. 100% torque at 0 rpm is hard to argue with.
2) eco weenies who want to virtue signal.
3) people who like new tech.

For most of us a PHEV is really the best choice.
I 100% believe what you just posted. Thanks for taking the time to post it.
 

BroncoBoy22

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YES. This is what I want. I am waiting to hope that this is what happens. I already am first on a waiting list and I would like that to be the option
Hopefully that’s what they went with but no one knows at the moment :/
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