A New Kind of Portal

[JerryG]

We are actively working to bring manufacturing to the USA. While not ideal, the overwhelming feedback we got was that the price had to be lower so this was our option for the time being. More options will be available soon.

Weren't you the same people who brought the manufacturing to China in the first place? What am I missing?

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[5GENIDN]

Love this info

OH... as I am thinking about it... the lateral load resulting plastic deformation WILL diminish the durability/life of an already compromised bearing.... and the expansion and contraction due to heat will also have detrimental effects on durability of those bearings as the tooth engagement will change. It is ever so slight but WILL cause wear and over time diminish life span.

 

[userdude]

To get them anywhere close to the strength the package/housing is going to have to increase to what? maybe 8 or 9 inch width? to fit a MUCH larger bearing pack that would be of equal strength.

This will be the "Grand Canyon" edition...

 

[SierraBronco]

OH... as I am thinking about it... the lateral load resulting plastic deformation WILL diminish the durability/life of an already compromised bearing.... and the expansion and contraction due to heat will also have detrimental effects on durability of those bearings as the tooth engagement will change. It is ever so slight but WILL cause wear and over time diminish life span.

I’ll contribute by saying…Fatigue life is real…

 

[Fordified1]

Sorry, I didn’t watch the vid and maybe missed a post or two.
Technology has changed in straight-cut gears. Yes they used to be noisy and creat heat. Remember the old Pete Jackson gear drives (cam drives) and quick change differentials (dirt track racers ran them)? Super noisy.

I would be interested in an explanation from an engineer addressing what has changed in regards to tooth engagement in the newer technology.

Helical gears progressively engage and slide across the teeth and used to be the gold standard for quiet and smooth. This has changed in recent years. They absolutely creat more heat and wear from increased friction (and side thrust) over the newly engineered straight cut gears. Also parasitic loss consideration is a big deal.

 

[5GENIDN]

This will be the "Grand Canyon" edition...

Either that or the inexpensive weak edition. I honestly do not trust this design to be durable.... Yes you can probably take it out and bang it on the rocks and when it does not fail you can claim success... But lets look at 20,000 to 25,000 highway miles. How will they be holding up then?

If it is not obvious by now, I do not like the helical cut gears in this application. Way too many cons for what? the 1 pro is that they are quieter?... I am sorry I am not willing to make that design trade off. I have straight cut gears and I do not hear them.

 

[userdude]

If it is not obvious by now, I do not like the helical cut gears in this application.

I didn't get that at all... lol I know I prefer to say "helical gear" to "straight gear", isn't that enough?!?

 

[Fordified1]

Either that or the inexpensive weak edition. I honestly do not trust this design to be durable.... Yes you can probably take it out and bang it on the rocks and when it does not fail you can claim success... But lets look at 20,000 to 25,000 highway miles. How will they be holding up then?

If it is not obvious by now, I do not like the helical cut gears in this application. Way too many cons for what? the 1 pro is that they are quieter?... I am sorry I am not willing to make that design trade off. I have straight cut gears and I do not hear them.

Portals on my RZR have straight cut gears and are absolutely silent.

 

[5GENIDN]

I didn't get that at all... lol I know I prefer to say "helical gear" to "straight gear", isn't that enough?!?

I guess I am not a modern man since I fall into the "straight" category.

 

[5GENIDN]

Here is another question..... The cast steel housing... Cast steel is strong, depending on the alloys used, but it is also considerably more brittle. Will the cast housing hold up to the continuously variable lateral loading? I do not know the answer to that because 1) I do not know the alloys being used. 2) I do not know the housing design. typically with cast housings you need to add considerable webbing to help counteract the forces... We are not talking singular max loading. I am taking about continuously changing loads over a significant period of time. That kind of loading is why bridges fail over time.

 

[Fordified1]

As far as strength per weight and resistance to metal fatigue. Billet aluminum exceeds cast steel by a measurable amount. But a steel casting is much cheaper than cnc’d billet aluminum. That’s why the factory Bronco knuckles are cast.

 

[5GENIDN]

Sorry, I didn’t watch the vid and maybe missed a post or two.
Technology has changed in straight-cut gears. Yes they used to be noisy and creat heat. Remember the old Pete Jackson gear drives (cam drives) and quick change differentials (dirt track racers ran them)? Super noisy.

I would be interested in an explanation from an engineer addressing what has changed in regards to tooth engagement in the newer technology.

Helical gears progressively engage and slide across the teeth and used to be the gold standard for quiet and smooth. This has changed in recent years. They absolutely creat more heat and wear from increased friction (and side thrust) over the newly engineered straight cut gears. Also parasitic loss consideration is a big deal.

Tooth engagement has not changed.... Gear design has not changed... Straight cut gears in a transmission are still loud. This is a different application turning at a much different speed with two sets of idlers distributing 1/2 to 1/4 the power that the transmission is seeing and the transmission has a single engagement while a 4 gear portal has dual. And it is in a different location. Straight cut gears in a portal will still make noise. It is just not loud enough to hear over typical road noise.

 

[userdude]

If you bought Tibus portals you should probably sue Tibus for false manufacturing claims of being made in Germany.

I caught that too; the email seems to suggest they're still made in Germany and that the BB one's are imported from the same warehouse. Gray market nonetheless. Interesting if they are German portals; why are they so much cheaper in Asia? Weird.

 

[HotdogThud]

I honestly don't know how any manufacturer finds a balance between the forum people who are split between "it's too expensive" and "it's made in China."

I've seriously looked into manufacturing a few parts since my buddy is a project manager with expertise making injection molded parts. It seems the options are to either make it here at a price point that excludes most customers but have my IP/patent protected, or make it in China and have cheaper copies hit the market within a few months.

That really is the reality, you want it cheap? overseas it goes. you want it from here? ok, well we don't manufacture to the same level we did 45 years ago, so it costs more.

Which isn't to say that just because it's from China that it's 'bad', plenty of damn good stuff is made there too, just a matter of how much a vendor is willing to pay for good source materials

 

[5GENIDN]

That really is the reality, you want it cheap? overseas it goes. you want it from here? ok, well we don't manufacture to the same level we did 45 years ago, so it costs more.

Which isn't to say that just because it's from China that it's 'bad', plenty of damn good stuff is made there too, just a matter of how much a vendor is willing to pay for good source materials

That and the quality control is a bit of the wild west.... Maybe the manufacturer is doing a reputable job but his steel supplier may take a short cut and supply an inferior alloy to save a few bucks on the sale. That problem stems from a judicial system that a law suit over inferior substitutions may be decided by who knows who.... Rather than the rule of law.

There is a rabbit hole.... And it is deep.

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