Webasto investing $213M this year on MIC hard tops. Expects to build ~1 million roofs total for Bronco

[LSBronco13]

Automotive News article says Webasto is going to invest $213 million this year on MIC tops. Claims they have 8 year deal. Claims they will have 6 different roofs for the bronco sometime in the future.

According to Automotive News Europe via Ford Authorty

“It took a lot of energy, nerves, and money,” Webasto CEO Holger Engelmann said last week during the company’s annual press conference. “We still successfully countered the ongoing pandemic, semiconductor bottlenecks, and exploding material costs last year, and further investments in the future were also factored in. But one single, extremely challenging, technological innovative major project of highly strategic importance for the Americas region meant that we again had to absorb a negative result.”

Indeed, Webasto estimates that it will invest a whopping $200 million euros ($213 million USD) into the Ford Bronco hard top project by the end of this year, which is a staggering sum for one product. However, the molded-in color (MIC) hardtop is also a massive moneymaking project for the company, one that will generate $2 billion in sales for Webasto over its eight-year lifespan, which covers 2018-2026.

The company estimates that the Bronco MIC top will account for a whopping 20 percent of its sales in the Americas region (which includes the U.S., Canada, and Mexico) beginning this year and continuing for the next several years. Ultimately, Webasto plans to build around one million roof systems for the rugged SUV, which will eventually consist of six different types of tops.

MIC - Molded InCompetence.

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[airishfan]

Late 2023… maybe. Most likely 2024. And by then good chance we’ll have a few more aftermarket options as well.

For me as a hard top order holder… I just want guarenteed pricing on a hard top. I do not mind at all switching to a soft top if it helps Ford get Broncos out the door and helps me get my vehicle faster. But I will not switch to a hard top unless we get some idea what pricing will be.

$3000 - $5000?? Sold, I will switch to a soft top immediately. $7000+? Ain’t no way.

———

But anyway, $200 million is the type of investment you make when you are thinking long-term. That’s a good sign because it shows Ford is happy with the sales performance of the Bronco and is in it for the long-haul. But unlikely this will help any of us in the next in the next year. Honestly we’re still waiting for the investments Ford made last year to help us today (which they are… slowly).

needs to be long term because that how long Ford knows it well take to fill all orders just from people who put them in 2021.

 

[Zero_chance]

Yes they do, they made exactly what Ford told them to, it's just a shitty design. I was firmly in camp Webusted for a while too, but after noodling it over in my head for a bit, a couple of things occurred to me. Webasto makes roofs for LOTS of different companies. Those fancy glass roofs on BMW and Mercedes luxury cars? Webasto. Electronic convertibles for hard top convertibles? Webasto.

Do you really think that after all of that was used to build up a billion dollar business, that they'd just completely phone it in for Ford? No, Ford thought that a single millimeter of resin on top of cardboard was enough, and to save a few bucks on production time, they're just shaving the sides off instead of ensuring that there's a solid sealed edge on them.

Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, maybe they suck. But looking at the entire situation, including dropped valves, pulleys that eat cooling hoses, A pillars that leak water, convertibles that scuff the roll bar, body panels that are dented leaving the factory, unpainted door jambs, seats that don't match, dirt mountain, ice mountain, and any other thing I haven't listed, does one really think that this isn't all actually Ford's problem?

If it was all Fords problem don’t you think Ford would be the one investing 200 million. Ford likely had a rough idea and dimensions and left the design and build up to Web with a price point to come in at or under. Ford should have QC’d their finished products better and had them verify they could mass produce with quality and quantity well before three had to step in for sure.

 

[JohnnyBronco]

Something Ford could do, but probably won’t, is offer the original MIC price to every Bronco owner who originally had a hardtop on their order, but switched to soft top. Ford could verify with each dealer based on DORA. Only catch would be that we, the customer, would be required to eat the freight cost.

Freight cost to dealer would be nominal. Parts deliveries show up weekly in 55' van trailers with more than enough room to spare for a hardtop thrown in.

And I sometimes count myself l

B6G over the years has been full of posts like this one. When someone says "...single millimeter of resin over cardboard..." and "shitty design", indicates he doesn't really understand plastics engineering, design, and high-rate industrial manufacturing. Such comments also indicate he is missing the intent of the MIC roof design as well. I'll even go further and perhaps say he misses the point of the Bronco design in the first place.

The Bronco was designed for the most part to be a moderately-priced off-road, reconfigurable recreational vehicle. It has a removable roof and doors, which requires engineering compromises for a $30,000 price target of the Base Bronco trim level.

The MIC design is intended to be lightweight so it can be easily removed and partially stored on-board the vehicle while also being durable to survive off road hazards or sit on a person's lawn or campsite for a day or extended storage in a garage, shed, barn, etc.

The doors are removable. Again engineering compromises are required to make the doors lightweight and less susceptible to damage when stored off the vehicle.

These two vehicle design attributes mean engineering considerations for seals, materials, and construction techniques. The compromises are surface finish and sealing against water intrusion.

If the buyer expects zero water intrusion at all times or perfect paint surfaces at the door jambs then I think he misses the point of the Bronco. Those things are not quality issues but rather design compromises at a $30K vehicle price point. While manufacturing anomalies occur in every mass produced product, it does seem Ford is suffering from some inconsistencies in that area. Considering the industry has been hammered by a pandemic that has kept people isolated from one another for the better part of 2 years, elevated levels of production problems shouldn't be unexpected, especially for a newly launched vehicle.

Understanding how difficult it is to bring an automotive product to market under normal circumstances, to me what Ford achieved since March of 2020 has been admirable.

Having not personally viewed a MIC up close I cannot say for certain, but you are okay with apparently being able to see the honeycomb innards? Would you be satisfied with a rough finish tub/shower? Or wavy glass in your house windows? Apparently

 

[Bdisco]

Freight cost to dealer would be nominal. Parts deliveries show up weekly in 55' van trailers with more than enough room to spare for a hardtop thrown in.

And I sometimes count myself l
Having not personally viewed a MIC up close I cannot say for certain, but you are okay with apparently being able to see the honeycomb innards? Would you be satisfied with a rough finish tub/shower? Or wavy glass in your house windows? Apparently

My LL Bean Old Town Canoe has a nicer fit and finish then my mic top, just saying.

 

[Alfabeast]

Yes they do, they made exactly what Ford told them to, it's just a shitty design. I was firmly in camp Webusted for a while too, but after noodling it over in my head for a bit, a couple of things occurred to me. Webasto makes roofs for LOTS of different companies. Those fancy glass roofs on BMW and Mercedes luxury cars? Webasto. Electronic convertibles for hard top convertibles? Webasto.

Do you really think that after all of that was used to build up a billion dollar business, that they'd just completely phone it in for Ford? No, Ford thought that a single millimeter of resin on top of cardboard was enough, and to save a few bucks on production time, they're just shaving the sides off instead of ensuring that there's a solid sealed edge on them.

Maybe I'm wrong, who knows, maybe they suck. But looking at the entire situation, including dropped valves, pulleys that eat cooling hoses, A pillars that leak water, convertibles that scuff the roll bar, body panels that are dented leaving the factory, unpainted door jambs, seats that don't match, dirt mountain, ice mountain, and any other thing I haven't listed, does one really think that this isn't all actually Ford's problem?

Ford picked a supplier that excels at making complicated and expensive glass sunroofs with servo motors and tracks in a precision assembly to make a large thermoformed plastic top. If I were them I would develop a second source whose primary business is large thermoformed products.

 

[Razorbak86]

Ford picked a supplier that excels at making complicated and expensive glass sunroofs with servo motors and tracks in a precision assembly to make a large thermoformed plastic top. If I were them I would develop a second source whose primary business is large thermoformed products.

Like Continental Structural Plastics, now owned by Teijin Automotive Technologies, which already makes composite products with a honeycomb inner layer for Jeep?

 

[HotdogThud]

Ford picked a supplier that excels at making complicated and expensive glass sunroofs with servo motors and tracks in a precision assembly to make a large thermoformed plastic top. If I were them I would develop a second source whose primary business is large thermoformed products.

Bingo, you said it better than I did.

 

[RBF 1401]

I think a lot of folks who are jonesing for the Mod/Fiberglass top fail to realize how much heavier it is going to be than the current top.

I have no desire for one since the MIC top is already heavy/awkward enough as it is.

Everyone has a different set of needs/uses for this vehicle. I don't need a top that is super lightweight that I repeatedly take off and put back on. I need a top that I can take off in late September or October when it stops being 100 degrees, and put back on in May or June when it returns to regularly being 100 degrees. And the mod hard top will still be tons lighter than the one-piece steel removable top on my kid's 1970 Bronco.

 

[North7]

I'd bet if you viewed any mid-market priced vehicle up close you'd find imperfections in the paint and surface quality of the plastics. And that's the point, all the photos of MIC "quality" issues are macro-photographs just inches from the surface. I look at a car from multiple feet away, where the apparent flaws are not perceptible. Have a decent level of education in plastics design and manufacturing, so I understand the MIC top design and purpose. I just don't see the snake skin effect as a quality issue. Quality as defined by Edwards Demming (i.e. fitness for use). The MIC is supposed to be lightweight and durable both on the trail and in storage. The design and construction of the MIC top follows that ethos, which is why I don't get freaked out over it. As I've said before, I might change the construction a bit an use a structural foam in between the inner and outer panels in place of the honeycomb, but the honeycomb architecture is common engineering design use for such panels.

As far as wavy glass goes, I think it is neat and my very old house is full of it. Super smooth shower surfaces are quite hazardous.

Wow, who knew that Demming was a Ford apologist as well!

 

[HotdogThud]

Ford picked a supplier that excels at making complicated and expensive glass sunroofs with servo motors and tracks in a precision assembly to make a large thermoformed plastic top. If I were them I would develop a second source whose primary business is large thermoformed products.

It occurred to me just now, I wonder what Tupperware is up to these days. Tupperware parties at a bronco owners house would be cool...

 

[MarkusBigBucks]

Awesome. Maybe then they might be able to get me a quality replacement for my garbage MIC 2.0.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[Papa Smurf]

My thoughts exactly.

I’ve been waiting since January. The one they sent was possibly worse than the one I had. Now it’s back to waiting on backorder.

 

[MarkusBigBucks]

I’ve been waiting since January. The one they sent was possibly worse than the one I had. Now it’s back to waiting on backorder.

I had a representative from Ford contact me for the second time in regards to mine , dealer said they will get it replaced but no word yet. We looked at one somebody ordered in and it was the same, told them no sense in replacing it with the same garbage. They documented exactly all the problems, so we will see what happens.

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