Blown M190 on Hells Gate <-Video proof

[‘21OBX]

Do you have the advanced T-case? if not you had the front axle disconnect on the FDU. They fail. Seems common on the BD. Good news is you already have the 4.46 gears a badlands fdu will bolt right in. You will need the new cv shafts tho.

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[87-Z28]

What’s not to like about snacktime, it was the best part of preschool.

relax some, he is just out there trying to enjoy his rig and he has the technical knowledge to deal with failures. He knows his setup with 37s and the m190 was not great for longevity when wheeled hard. I appreciate learning from his tear downs. Hopefully he never gets a bulletproof rig. Yeah that doesn’t exist anyway.

This is enjoying your rig.

.I never minded driving my 150K Porsche Cayenne Turbo S up the mountain logging roads, ROFL, Washpits, creekbeds, hillclimb, ect.... I stuffed the biggest (33s) meats I could squeeze on there and then Braffed the 521 hp SUV in some wild places. The Porsche dealer was just astounded when I'd bring it in for service with mud caked everywhere and Brush and tree striped paint job. And jawdropped at the chainsaws and axes taking up the rear passenger area.

 

[TurkeyRun]

Duct tape'll fix it. Rub some dirt on it! lol

Let the dog lick it.

 

[01tundra]

Yep, I'm going with ring and pinion....know that sound all too well.....

These are from my last truck (non Bronco), front and rear in one trip.

37's W/ D44 & D60. The rear was a reverse cut Dynatrac ProRock 60, so that didn't help matters any.

Fixed it with a shaved 14-bolt rear, D60 front and 40's .

Heavy vehicle + 37's + D44 + rock crawling has never proven to be a great combo in my experiences.

 

[userdude]

He was in 4lo all day without switching and then was spinning and sawing the wheel back and forth while two footing it. If that's proper form I'll see myself out.

We have a lot of people new to performance driving who seem to idolize the guys doing the most damage to their trucks.

You mean like this guy? You see the sawing back and forth, wheels spinning, two foot driving all the time in hardcore rock crawling. It's a technique for grabbing traction. What Snacktime does are trails analogous to this type of crawling, if not necessarily that off the wall.

 

[Snacktime]

Yep, I'm going with ring and pinion....know that sound all too well.....

These are from my last truck (non Bronco), front and rear in one trip.

37's W/ D44 & D60. The rear was a reverse cut Dynatrac ProRock 60, so that didn't help matters any.

Fixed it with a shaved 14-bolt rear, D60 front and 40's .

Heavy vehicle + 37's + D44 + rock crawling has never proven to be a great combo in my experiences.

What gets me is the Spicer advantek is equivalent to a Dana 44. I rather have a 9" front and off the shelf parts options.

I can tell you I am not ditching the 37s but 40s are not happening at this point.

 

[Felix808]

What gets me is the Spicer advantek is equivalent to a Dana 44. I rather have a 9" front and off the shelf parts options.

I can tell you I am not ditching the 37s but 40s are not happening at this point.

Unless it was a Currie hi-9", I wouldn't want such a low pinon in front.

 

[hozer]

My only critique here is of my own life choices for not providing me the time nor money to intentionally break my $60k vehicle.

 

[Owl]

Question -- was the front elocker on when the breaks occurred (I didn't know what model Bronco was being used)? Seems odd both left & right failed.

Note: An M190 on 32s would be equivalent to an M220 on 37s strength-wise. Or looking at it another way... using M190s with 37s would be about the same as using an M164 (if one existed) on 32s.

 

[87-Z28]

Dana publishes the data on torque load limits etc.

There are lots of loading scenarios for the front axles. Too many to possibly dissect, however one we are familiar with is a spinning front wheel (heavy skinny pedal) that suddenly grabs traction. This sends a torsional shock load down the axle and into the FDU.

The fdu is rated to various torque limits (see table). Regardless of the failure mode let’s assume this is an absolute value. The M210 can handle 6500/5000=1.3 times the torque of the M190 or 30% more.

a spinning wheel has rotational inertia as a function of the mass wrt the distance squared from the axis of rotation. Distance squared is a stronger variable than mass. So a 37” tire has approximately (37/33)^2=1.26 times the inertia of a 33” tire. Ignoring nuances in weight.

a spinning wheel that instantaneously grabs friction results in a torque on the axle that is proportional to the rotational inertia and angular deceleration required to stop the spinning wheel. Therefore a spinning 37” wheel requires roughly 26% more torque to stop than a 33” wheel given the same angular deceleration.

it is not known if the angular deceleration will be identical between the two wheels (37 or 33). Of course the faster the spinning the greater the deceleration when the tire grabs friction. All this is a function of the skinny pedal.

Nonetheless, focusing on what is a function of the tire. it is clear that for torsional loading from a spinning wheel that grabs friction, the tire diameter has a second power detrimental effect.

Inertial resistance is an inherent property of the tire size we choose, and diameter is more detrimental than mass wrt rotational inertia. Light 37 will likely be more detrimental than a heavy 35. But light 37 is still better than heavy 37.

 

[Ryuk]

7 pages and no one pointed out the obvious

It's because he has a 4 door. Had nothing to do with the M190.
The Bronco that did it in a later post had nothing to do with it being a Badlands,
It was 100% due to it being a 2 door.



Man, that was LOUD. Glad to see you made it out of there without sliding backwards more than you did and then rolling.
WHEW!!!!!

 

[Owl]

Ryuk -- explain your 2-Door comment? Is it the extra 500 or so pounds in a 4-door, the angle difference, or ???

As a 2-door owner I am curious as to your comment.

 

[5GENIDN]

Ryuk -- explain your 2-Door comment? Is it the extra 500 or so pounds in a 4-door, the angle difference, or ???

As a 2-door owner I am curious as to your comment.

I think you missed the emoji..... You are taking his comment too seriously.

 

[Owl]

Well, I guess I missed the emoji, but I just got back from the Bronco Rodeo in Las Vegas, and quite frankly I do think I had an easier go of it on most of the trails than the 4-door drivers. I was the only 2-door driver in my group.

And... on something like Hell's Gate it seems like a 4-door would be more stable in a vertical sense, but then again have a bit less traction on the front wheels. I also think that smaller tires might get a better grip on hard surfaces... assuming ground clearance wasn't an issue.

Note: I'm not a mathematician though, and will never try and be one on TV in regard to whether a shorter 2-door is better than a 4-door in certain situations.

 

[5GENIDN]

Well, I guess I missed the emoji, but I just got back from the Bronco Rodeo in Las Vegas, and quite frankly I do think I had an easier go of it on most of the trails than the 4-door drivers. I was the only 2-door driver in my group.

And... on something like Hell's Gate it seems like a 4-door would be more stable in a vertical sense, but then again have a bit less traction on the front wheels. I also think that smaller tires might get a better grip on hard surfaces... assuming ground clearance wasn't an issue.

Note: I'm not a mathematician though, and will never try and be one on TV in regard to whether a shorter 2-door is better than a 4-door in certain situations.

Now see... you are just proving anecdotally that two doors are just better off road than 4 doors....

Maybe it had something to do with the driver???? I would argue that both a longer wheel base and a shorter wheel base have their own advantages and disadvantages... I honestly can not see how the number of doors have anything to do with it.

for clarity.... I am a 2 door guy.

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