Not a misanthrope...why I don't like major offroad events.

[Valhalla]

I've been on this forum for a little bit. I've enjoyed chatting with many of you and met a few of you. i've enjoyed all of that. I have been in the offroad world for most of my 52 years in some form or fashion. I have picked up a few things from the smart folks out there. What i have learned is that major offroad events are a great social event. However I believe they are horrible for off highwaying.

I don't mean to offend, so I'd like to explain. I started realizing this in the early 90's when the NC side of Tellico still allowed off highway travel. There used to be an annual run up there called "The Dixie Run". Some of the older crowd may have heard of it. It was a great time. One year "Four Wheeler" magazine came and covered the run. The next year the campgrounds were beyond capacity. The people who'd paid for admission to the event were trying to find a spot to camp and were camping outside "organized" camp spots. The Forrest rangers spent all night trying to deal with people trying to pitch tents, park rigs, trailers and motor homes all over undesignated areas. We got through that part. The next day....and this is the real rub.... we waited 3 hours while 40 vehicles tried to cross the river. This was the first big coffin nail in them closing the tellico trails in my opinion.

I digress. So big events lead to sitting and waiting while people ceaselessly try obstacles over and over. I like uncrowded trails and courtesy in the off highway world, peace and tranquillity. Over the years i noticed crowded trails change me and change the others wheeling. I even try not to ride in a group much bigger than 7. At 8 vehicles I like to split it into two groups of four. The reason is you don't get the long photo line. I like pictures and videos of rides so I can remember the day and the warmth of the sun, or cold of the snow...whatever.

So as we head into the New year, as government tries to close our precious trails. Please take pause and realize a strong community with a strong voice is fantastic. 400 plus vehicles treading a trail back to back for hours is rough on terrain, and gives the "they cause erosion crowd" ammunition. I'm sure I'll be flamed for this and I am fine with that. But as you head to Jeepfest, the Great american crawl, or whatever your local area hosts take pause for a moment and weigh what I've said to see if any of it rings true for you.

Sincerely

,
Renegade

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[userdude]

Yeah, I agree. When I was at Merus in West Texas, I thought we had a huge group (200) and they laughed and were like, we top out max at 20 and like less than 10. I got the wrong email and that was about a corp event that was a five day outing, counting everybody coming.

I've thought for awhile that off roading is a little bit like amusement parks for adults. In that sense, an amusement park is peak fun when it's not packed to the gills. (One time about 150 of us had the old Astroworld to ourselves for several hours because my dad's chemical plant rented it out for the night. It was awesome!)

But they don't make money that way, so they pack 'em, the rides run continuously, and the lines can take hours. That's just not fun, especially when it breaks right when you're about to get on.

So far from flaming, I think those are great observations. Other than perhaps at an expo or camping event with small groups going out periodically, I'd probably also avoid big events. But I'm not the most social dude, either.

Also, cool pictures. Always interesting to see the person behind the keyboard, too.

 

[Bmadda]

What you say is one of the more unfortunate truths of this hobby! We have had all those same issues in WI. Our best trail is currently closed due to "erosion". I am often hesitant to post, or discuss outside my immediate circle, places in this state I have wheeled for fear of driving more traffic there and raising LE attention. It's a shame, but it is part of this hobby for sure

 

[Valhalla]

I orate much better than I type. (Especially since i don't have my readers on!) So thanks for the read! Sorry for syntax and spelling errors!

 

[Valhalla]

What you say is one of the more unfortunate truths of this hobby! We have had all those same issues in WI. Our best trail is currently closed due to "erosion". I am often hesitant to post, or discuss outside my immediate circle, places in this state I have wheeled for fear of driving more traffic there and raising LE attention. It's a shame, but it is part of this hobby for sure

Keep your friends close and your trails closer!

 

[hozer]

This is the unfortunate truth about every automotive niche based gathering.

Nice spots get overcrowded and people do dumb things that get it shut down.

 

[broadicustomworks]

No flaming. All truth in what you said.
Anyone who would flame or be offended by that doesn't really get it.
Medium-sized events can be fun too, but it has to be managed in a way that does limit the group size, groups similar skill levels together on the trails they are more capable and comfortable driving, etc.
But my preference is always in that 5-10 rig per group max.
Much more than that it just gets too chaotic and time consuming.
Especially if you are the lead or tailgunner and are the one running back and forth to your rig after having to spot the group over an obstacle.
Keeping what we have is a never-ending battle.
We definitely don't need to hand any ammo to the groups trying to impede on it or shut it down.
Tellico was a huge loss.
But now it's becoming just one of the fables some of us talk about that most nowadays don't get.

 

[Area51BS]

It’s like a fishing tournament on your local waters. Complete chaos.

 

[rayhil67]

What you say is one of the more unfortunate truths of this hobby! We have had all those same issues in WI. Our best trail is currently closed due to "erosion". I am often hesitant to post, or discuss outside my immediate circle, places in this state I have wheeled for fear of driving more traffic there and raising LE attention. It's a shame, but it is part of this hobby for sure

I hear what you are saying, don’t get me wrong I’ve had some great times at AOAA, and Rausch but its not the same as “free wheelen” with your friends. I was lucky when I was growing up we had three places in my area where you could go and do some mud’en, drink some beer, and crash for the night and no one would bother you.

One place we used to hit was an old, abandoned silk mine in Parker Ford, PA. This place was about half a mile long had a 20 ft berm all around it and had 2 small “lakes” inside it. There were weekends when there would be 15 -25 4x4ers there just having a good time. Of course, one day some @holes from the city got out of control, drunk and showing off and there was an accident and 1 person died two others got hurt, and well that was the end of that.

 

[Nate Train]

I've been on this forum for a little bit. I've enjoyed chatting with many of you and met a few of you. i've enjoyed all of that. I have been in the offroad world for most of my 52 years in some form or fashion. I have picked up a few things from the smart folks out there. What i have learned is that major offroad events are a great social event. However I believe they are horrible for off highwaying.
I don't mean to offend, so I'd like to explain. I started realizing this in the early 90's when the NC side of Tellico still allowed off highway travel. There used to be an annual run up there called "The Dixie Run". Some of the older crowd may have heard of it. It was a great time. One year "Four Wheeler" magazine came and covered the run. The next year the campgrounds were beyond capacity. The people who'd paid for admission to the event were trying to find a spot to camp and were camping outside "organized" camp spots. The Forrest rangers spent all night trying to deal with people trying to pitch tents, park rigs, trailers and motor homes all over undesignated areas. We got through that part. The next day....and this is the real rub.... we waited 3 hours while 40 vehicles tried to cross the river. This was the first big coffin nail in them closing the tellico trails in my opinion. I digress. So big events lead to sitting and waiting while people ceaselessly try obstacles over and over. I like uncrowded trails and courtesy in the off highway world, peace and tranquillity. Over the years i noticed crowded trails change me and change the others wheeling. I even try not to ride in a group much bigger than 7. At 8 vehicles I like to split it into two groups of four. The reason is you don't get the long photo line. I like pictures and videos of rides so I can remember the day and the warmth of the sun, or cold of the snow...whatever. So as we head into the New year, as government tries to close our precious trails. Please take pause and realize a strong community with a strong voice is fantastic. 400 plus vehicles treading a trail back to back for hours is rough on terrain, and gives the "they cause erosion crowd" ammunition. I'm sure I'll be flamed for this and I am fine with that. But as you head to Jeepfest, the Great american crawl, or whatever your local area hosts take pause for a moment and weigh what I've said to see if any of it rings true for you.

Sincerely

,
Renegade

I've never been to one, but it seems like way more people than I want to be around. I think I'm up for a maximum of 3-4 friends to wheel with.

If only I had 3-4 friends.

 

[jbellousux]

Crowds become even less desirable as we age.
In September, on a trek in the west, I did a nice hike in Great Basin NP. It was wonderful and memorable partly by the dearth of people in this lonely spot.
A couple of days later, with my son, we hiked in Yosemite to the top of Nevada Falls. The Yosemite Valley is one of the most spectacular places anywhere, but sharing it with so many people, even on a Wednesday in the middle of September, lessens the experience.
I view my Bronco as a means to the road less traveled.

 

[Mdozier]

“Grew up” roaming Bowater property accessed through the old CCC roads and logging roads. 2 to 4 of us figuring our way through and how to get each other unstuck.
For me, that’s the ideal off-road adventure. Making it up as you go.
I’m certainly not against managed access and events since that’s about all some can get these days.
Needless to say I agree with you.

Many of us enjoy this for the experience of accessing back country and places “less traveled” as much as any obstacle we need to manage in the process.

Respecting each other and the country/property we get to enjoy and serving as good stewards has always been and should remain priority.

 

[Tricky Mike]

I fully agree. The Moab Safari was fun just for the sheer number of Broncos everywhere, but once we hit the trails it was a slog.

Once tire meets rock, give me 1-10 buddies instead.

 

[userdude]

In terms of the ongoing Blue Ribbon/SUWA political machinations, I do think we as off roaders have a responsibility to continue our access by managing and conserving it's use.

Too little access will end up like the old Scandinavian night riders back in the 70's/80's, when folks blacked out illegal 4x4's so they could ride at night, where they hoped not to be seen. Call this the "black market" approach.

On the flip side, too much off roading (especially indiscriminate use by irresponsible people) harms everyone and leaves our community open to attacks by those who want the opposite extreme, little to no use by anyone. This thread is an acknowledgement that yes, what we do has consequences and thus how we approach it matters.

As off roading continues to grow in popularity, it's possible or even probable controlled/permitted access with regulated limits like some national parks have are warranted for popular locations like Moab or the Rubicon. In other words, some limits as opposed to no limits or complete bans.

As Merus does, they don't pack 'em in since they recognize that's bad for their park but also the experience of their customers.

We're not a small community anymore, and what we do in aggregate over time does matter.

 

[Squatch]

We have at least 100M more people in the US than we did in 1980, so... there's an element of overcrowding and supply/demand with everything that involves real property(land) when you go from 226M to 329M people. I get it.

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