Raptor Winch Bumper- Fail?

[Silver-Bolt]

I run the ARB. The extra bracing was a bitch to install, but I feel better to have it. That ADD fail had a few things working against it. The mounting point for the winch is too high. Ideally the center axis of the winch drum should be inline with the center of the frame rail height. I agree that it appears that they used a tow strap and not a recovery strap. That is a huge shock load to put on a rig. Would bracing have prevented the sudden departure of the bumper? Hard to say.

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[swooshdave]

I run the ARB. The extra bracing was a bitch to install, but I feel better to have it. That ADD fail had a few things working against it. The mounting point for the winch is too high. Ideally the center axis of the winch drum should be inline with the center of the frame rail height. I agree that it appears that they used a tow strap and not a recovery strap. That is a hug shock load to put on a rig. Would bracing have prevented the sudden departure of the bumper? Hard to say.

I have a feeling not many bumpers would withstand a shock load like that from a tow strap.

 

[PWillette]

I have a feeling not many bumpers would withstand a shock load like that from a tow strap.

Agree 100%

Never underestimate the sucking power of mud! That thing wasn't going anywhere even with the right strap. Slow & steady would have been my approach. You have a winch, use it.

 

[FiveAngelsOutdoor]

Hey everyone, feel that I will reply on this thread, since it my unfortunate experience that kicked it off.

First this, the tool being used was a kinetic strap, not a tow strap I was fully prepared to winch right before this happened, but fell back to one last try I was high centered in some deep ruts in this water, and probably would have been best served by a nice and steady winch recovery.

Regarding the bumper:

1. ADD did sent me out a new bumper, it was pretty much destroyed.

2. They have redesigned how the bumper attaches to the frame gussets. In my case, I had the older design which used nut clips (all 6 which snapped and failed). The new design uses high strength bolts and adds an additional attachment bracket.

3. I have also added the frame mount support bracket kit as well for additional support.

The connection does feel much better and provides more confidence. ADD has been very responsive.

the downside is the damage caused. Based on how the bumper twisted as it was pulled off, if have had to have the gussets straightened, replaced grill, replaced lower louver, and fixed electrical connections broken when the bumper separated from the vehicle. All in all, about 3k to get it back up and running.

 

[PWillette]

Hey everyone, feel that I will reply on this thread, since it my unfortunate experience that kicked it off.

First this, the tool being used was a kinetic strap, not a tow strap I was fully prepared to winch right before this happened, but fell back to one last try I was high centered in some deep ruts in this water, and probably would have been best served by a nice and steady winch recovery.

Regarding the bumper:

1. ADD did sent me out a new bumper, it was pretty much destroyed.

2. They have redesigned how the bumper attaches to the frame gussets. In my case, I had the older design which used nut clips (all 6 which snapped and failed). The new design uses high strength bolts and adds an additional attachment bracket.

3. I have also added the frame mount support bracket kit as well for additional support.

The connection does feel much better and provides more confidence. ADD has been very responsive.

the downside is the damage caused. Based on how the bumper twisted as it was pulled off, if have had to have the gussets straightened, replaced grill, replaced lower louver, and fixed electrical connections broken when the bumper separated from the vehicle. All in all, about 3k to get it back up and running.

Unfortunate but all in a day of play and no one was hurt... live and learn as they say!

 

[broncozaur]

Possible he's out of stock. What say @Tricky Mike

I've contacted him, they have been discontinued.

 

[vrtical]

The reason I bought Mikes frame horn reinforcement braces and I have the Turn Offroad winch plate which is in line with the frame horns and not on top of the bumper.

 

[DewarT]

The winch mount in this situation played no impact on the failure. While it is not ideal in a winch loading situation, there are hundreds of applications where a winch above the bumper works. Warn and others made millions of $ on Grill Guard mounts for winches. Many legacy bumper designs mount the winch high to keep it out of the mud/rocks. They were generally properly attached to a rigid frame. Although Classic Bronco (66-77) are prone to failure like this as they have very little to mount to.

To the shock loading- also not ideal, but it was directly on a 'recovery point' designed for this purpose. Is the recover point in line with the frame? is it tied directly to the frame or is it also offset from the frame adding mechanical advantage to the loading?

 

[RC Bronco]

+1 for TD’s frame horn reinforcements. Sad to hear he’s discontinuing them, probably due to other options popping up

 

[DewarT]

Hey everyone, feel that I will reply on this thread, since it my unfortunate experience that kicked it off.

First this, the tool being used was a kinetic strap, not a tow strap I was fully prepared to winch right before this happened, but fell back to one last try I was high centered in some deep ruts in this water, and probably would have been best served by a nice and steady winch recovery.

Regarding the bumper:

1. ADD did sent me out a new bumper, it was pretty much destroyed.

2. They have redesigned how the bumper attaches to the frame gussets. In my case, I had the older design which used nut clips (all 6 which snapped and failed). The new design uses high strength bolts and adds an additional attachment bracket.

3. I have also added the frame mount support bracket kit as well for additional support.

The connection does feel much better and provides more confidence. ADD has been very responsive.

the downside is the damage caused. Based on how the bumper twisted as it was pulled off, if have had to have the gussets straightened, replaced grill, replaced lower louver, and fixed electrical connections broken when the bumper separated from the vehicle. All in all, about 3k to get it back up and running.

Kinetic strap (or rope) is the right tool and can be used in this loading with the correct recovery mount.

Unfortunate situation, but glad to hear that ADD stepped up. It restores some confidence in their business and puts them back on the list for me...but maybe with the LOBO brackets.

BTW- keep up the videos! I have enjoyed watching them!

 

[swooshdave]

Hey everyone, feel that I will reply on this thread, since it my unfortunate experience that kicked it off.

First this, the tool being used was a kinetic strap, not a tow strap I was fully prepared to winch right before this happened, but fell back to one last try I was high centered in some deep ruts in this water, and probably would have been best served by a nice and steady winch recovery.

Regarding the bumper:

1. ADD did sent me out a new bumper, it was pretty much destroyed.

2. They have redesigned how the bumper attaches to the frame gussets. In my case, I had the older design which used nut clips (all 6 which snapped and failed). The new design uses high strength bolts and adds an additional attachment bracket.

3. I have also added the frame mount support bracket kit as well for additional support.

The connection does feel much better and provides more confidence. ADD has been very responsive.

the downside is the damage caused. Based on how the bumper twisted as it was pulled off, if have had to have the gussets straightened, replaced grill, replaced lower louver, and fixed electrical connections broken when the bumper separated from the vehicle. All in all, about 3k to get it back up and running.

Thanks for the clarification and sorry for the experience.

 

[Ramble_Offroad]

Any consensus on frame horn reinforcement options?

ADD or LoD are two that I’m aware of.

 

[angrygnat]

This is definitely a tow strap attached to someone taking a run at it, no winch takes up line that quickly.
Same strap snap here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx6NH6ga9dQ&t=23s

 

[popo_patty]

Full video of the failure here:



Could that be a tow strap not a snatch line? I'm used to seeing snatch ropes round but know you can also get them flat. Let's hear some details about the recovery.

Although I am not in the market for a bumper(s), I do think ADD makes about the best looking Raptor bumpers. I'd love to hear their input on this scenario too.

Soooo that’s not how you do a recovery for one lol. Hear that engine spooling up as it gives a strong yank? On a hard strap for a vehicle weighing approx 5k sunk in mud? That’s a lot of math but ends up being waaay more then 5k lbs being yanked on. But yes, the Bronco bumper mounts are not the strongest. They hold up well to winching and pulls on a kinetic line (I have several dozen on my front and rear MC bumpers). This type of pull would honestly hurt a Jeeps bumper too

 

[swamp2]

...
On a hard strap for a vehicle weighing approx 5k sunk in mud? That’s a lot of math but ends up being waaay more then 5k lbs being yanked on.
...

Not much math - one multiply and one add . This rig is minimum 6k not 5k and the guidelines I'm familiar with add 150% of vehicle weight when stuck up to the body. So 15k lb. Gear needed should have safety factor of 2 or 3, so all gear, including bumper should be rated for 30k lb.

30k is also my rule of thumb number for strength for my gear.

I wonder how many companies build surrogate jigs and pull test their gear to failure? My guess is very few. I know my Monster Hooks rear soft shackle mounts were tested this way, with factory bolts and Grade 8 "upgrades" as well. Factory bolts performed better. There is far too much armchair engineering in the offroad aftermarket world...

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