74Weld compares Bronco Raptor vs. Bronco on portals

[TeocaliMG]

I love Quinns work and the portals are top notch, even though I think the price is fair for the amount of work required to do it well, it is unfortunately just unattainable for most folks.

The rack though pricey is much more attainable (especially if you just swap the housing on your own rack) and in my opinion is the more important upgrade between the two.

The thing that really irks me about the portals is how much Quinn markets them toward stock or near stock suspension. The suckers cost 20k, they have a host of benefits, but the most important one to me is the ability to run absolutely insane wheel travel. If I shelled out 20k for a set, I am not settling for 10". Portals give you the ability to max out your CV angle in jounce, the racers do it, why not this!

He should work on either a custom shock package from Fox that will let you cycle enough travel to max CV in jounce and rebound , and/or develop a custom LCA that will let us run a host of longer travel shocks (perhaps even with adjustable pivots) in the stock shock tower. (not just stock CV's either RCVs or whoever had the best/strongest/highest angle out there)

Am I going to get portals? probably not... but if I did, you can bet i'd be trying to figure out how to get 15-20" travel out of that front end.

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[TeocaliMG]

It would be interesting to see the Raptor vs Portal on some trails... Raptor is such a well balanced machine and proven on many technical trails. I'll bet that the advantage would swing depending on obstacle.

Strange to consider the Raptor is the value option in this comparison.

Technicals, i'd give it to the portals all day, but open up the speed (not even on the desert) the portals with stock travel have no chance running down the raptor.

 

[userdude]

He should work on either a custom shock package from Fox that will let you cycle enough travel to max CV in jounce and rebound , and/or develop a custom LCA that will let us run a host of longer travel shocks (perhaps even with adjustable pivots) in the stock shock tower. (not just stock CV's either RCVs or whoever had the best/strongest/highest angle out there)

Just wondering if you're referencing him mentioning that he's working with Fox on a custom package. It seems like he might even sell it, if it's successful. Definitely not a cheap thing, but would really make a 2dr Bronco a special thing with both.

 

[TeocaliMG]

Just wondering if you're referencing him mentioning that he's working with Fox on a custom package. It seems like he might even sell it, if it's successful. Definitely not a cheap thing, but would really make a 2dr Bronco a special thing with both.

Somewhat, but I am not sure if he is using these connections to make a legit long travel shock, or just a Raptorish version for the stock stroke/height kits. I hope its the former. I would still love to see a custom LCA that lets me adjust the shock pivot. Its counterintuitive, but I would run way more aggressive wheel travel in the rocks where its all low speed and I can max all the travel out. For something like high speed, i'd run a bit less travel since every joint, and the frame itself is going to be semi compliant and you will reach your limits much faster at high speed (probably why the 4600 rigs arent running more travel.

In this day and age with adjustable shocks, an adjustable LCA may seem unnecessary, but I think the two of them together would allow so much more in terms of wheel travel, or damping power combinations, for otherwise same/similar coilover kits.

 

[userdude]

Somewhat, but I am not sure if he is using these connections to make a legit long travel shock, or just a Raptorish version for the stock stroke/height kits. I hope its the former. I would still love to see a custom LCA that lets me adjust the shock pivot. Its counterintuitive, but I would run way more aggressive wheel travel in the rocks where its all low speed and I can max all the travel out. For something like high speed, i'd run a bit less travel since every joint, and the frame itself is going to be semi compliant and you will reach your limits much faster at high speed (probably why the 4600 rigs arent running more travel.

I went out a couple weeks back with a professional spotter and his wife and they had a 2012 2dr Jeep with 24" of travel and 35's. They were talking about all the places they've been, which is everywhere, including where clearance is necessary (e.g., Wolf Caves). He said a torsion sway bar like the AntiRocks with a mid-travel kit on my Bronco would go a long way. I think most people looking at their Jeep would've thought nice but not overbuilt. Those tires moved a lot though.

 

[5GENIDN]

Somewhat, but I am not sure if he is using these connections to make a legit long travel shock, or just a Raptorish version for the stock stroke/height kits. I hope its the former. I would still love to see a custom LCA that lets me adjust the shock pivot. Its counterintuitive, but I would run way more aggressive wheel travel in the rocks where its all low speed and I can max all the travel out. For something like high speed, i'd run a bit less travel since every joint, and the frame itself is going to be semi compliant and you will reach your limits much faster at high speed (probably why the 4600 rigs arent running more travel.

In this day and age with adjustable shocks, an adjustable LCA may seem unnecessary, but I think the two of them together would allow so much more in terms of wheel travel, or damping power combinations, for otherwise same/similar coilover kits.

I am sorry but I am still trying to comprehend how portals could possibly increase wheel travel.... I just do not quite understand. And an adjustable lower control arm? I guess I am not following quite what you are saying.

 

[TeocaliMG]

I am sorry but I am still trying to comprehend how portals could possibly increase wheel travel.... I just do not quite understand. And an adjustable lower control arm? I guess I am not following quite what you are saying.

They dont increase travel on their own, but they allow you to get more if you adjust other factors like the shock or LCA or shock tower. Generally your travel is limited by CV angle in rebound and clearance to the body in jounce. A portal lift gives you tons of body clearance with level CV's (and control arms) so you can much more easily achieve max angle in both jounce and rebound without having to gut all the body work on the front end.

To do this would require either a way lower compressed length shock, which usually compromises extended length, or a taller shock tower (lots of fab) or a slightly lower/inboard shock mount on the LCA. IMO thats the easiest because you could run a host of off the shelf shocks, not touch the shock tower and get increased wheel travel with minimal clearance penalty under the LCA (heck youre already on portals)

Its not going to magically give you 20" of travel, you will have to really optimize a lot of things, but it does mean you could get a really robust 12-15" fairly easily compared to the alternatives.

 

[TheKim]

Cool video. I wanna know if his Bronco is still “mostly bone stock” or did the new shocks change anything. Haha just kidding. Seriously interesting video. All outside of my pocketbook but I can dream

Time to put that AFFIRM account to work!

 

[AttackGuy64]

I feel ya, man.

Dude, I understand the cost of R&D and first-movers and profit taking, but damn.... $20k for portals is out of reach for mere mortals. If your method of increasing ground clearance costs 1/3 the price of the vehicle you are putting it on, you may need to rethink your price model. And, they make your ride look like a moon buggy.

 

[5GENIDN]

They dont increase travel on their own, but they allow you to get more if you adjust other factors like the shock or LCA or shock tower. Generally your travel is limited by CV angle in rebound and clearance to the body in jounce. A portal lift gives you tons of body clearance with level CV's (and control arms) so you can much more easily achieve max angle in both jounce and rebound without having to gut all the body work on the front end.

To do this would require either a way lower compressed length shock, which usually compromises extended length, or a taller shock tower (lots of fab) or a slightly lower/inboard shock mount on the LCA. IMO thats the easiest because you could run a host of off the shelf shocks, not touch the shock tower and get increased wheel travel with minimal clearance penalty under the LCA (heck youre already on portals)

Its not going to magically give you 20" of travel, you will have to really optimize a lot of things, but it does mean you could get a really robust 12-15" fairly easily compared to the alternatives.

I think I am following here.... So you are saying that because of the additional wheel to body clearance provided by the portals the suspension geometry (specifically shock travel) can be increased to provide additional articulation????

To a very degree I am in agreement. I have gone to King coil overs. BUT I had to add a 0.30 inch hard stop inside the shock to limit droop because at the stock 26.6" length they created bind in the CV. at 26.30 inch of droop they did not. Now compression while I am not quite maxing the compression I am coming very close... Again the limiting factor being the CV, as you surmised, not the tire on body. I do not know how I could get more travel beyond a .25 inch additional compression as measured in shock movement.

You would also want to be very very careful about changing the location of the shock/ coil over mount location on the lower control arm. The slightest movement would have a dramatic effect on the lever arm it is controlling. The forces we are working with here are pretty significant. The resistance to those forces (coilover/shock/spring) that force is multiplied by the distance from the radius point (inboard pivot of the lower control arm). The forces applied to the coilover/shock/spring are actually greater than the original forces applied at the wheel because the distance to the radius point (from the mount on the LCA) is shorter than it is to the wheel.

Short of getting a CV that can stand up to better angles, I am not sure how you can increase that movement. Typically you would increase control arm length but the angle of movement does not really change, but because it is further out from the pivot point it has a longer movement along the arc.

 

[userdude]

Dude, I understand the cost of R&D and first-movers and profit taking, but damn.... $20k for portals is out of reach for mere mortals. If your method of increasing ground clearance costs 1/3 the price of the vehicle you are putting it on, you may need to rethink your price model. And, they make your ride look like a moon buggy.

If you're talking to me, sure. I don't know I get the tractor allegory, but I will point out lots of folks put all kinds of crap on their Broncos and spend a LOT more than $20k. Hell, a wrap and carbon fiber fender flares and whatnot gets you almost there. Wide body fender? Once body fitted and painted, you're close to $20k. Lots of folks got thousands wrapped up in lights they don't need. I don't get the naysayers talking all that smack about those being "for the 1%". Lots of shit, not even costly stuff, is only for 1%. I just don't get the moaning about 74Weld in particular.

 

[TeocaliMG]

I think I am following here.... So you are saying that because of the additional wheel to body clearance provided by the portals the suspension geometry (specifically shock travel) can be increased to provide additional articulation????

To a very degree I am in agreement. I have gone to King coil overs. BUT I had to add a 0.30 inch hard stop inside the shock to limit droop because at the stock 26.6" length they created bind in the CV. at 26.30 inch of droop they did not. Now compression while I am not quite maxing the compression I am coming very close... Again the limiting factor being the CV, as you surmised, not the tire on body. I do not know how I could get more travel beyond a .25 inch additional compression as measured in shock movement.

You would also want to be very very careful about changing the location of the shock/ coil over mount location on the lower control arm. The slightest movement would have a dramatic effect on the lever arm it is controlling. The forces we are working with here are pretty significant. The resistance to those forces (coilover/shock/spring) that force is multiplied by the distance from the radius point (inboard pivot of the lower control arm). The forces applied to the coilover/shock/spring are actually greater than the original forces applied at the wheel because the distance to the radius point (from the mount on the LCA) is shorter than it is to the wheel.

Short of getting a CV that can stand up to better angles, I am not sure how you can increase that movement. Typically you would increase control arm length but the angle of movement does not really change, but because it is further out from the pivot point it has a longer movement along the arc.

I agree with all that, especially about being very careful about messing around with the suspension pivots. Even having alternate bolt holes would be too much, but having a removable bracket integrated to the LCA that could be replaced with alternates with very slight changes in position would be great. You could be more aggressive in adjustment perpendicular to the LCA than longitudinally.

Regarding the CV, i'd be surprised if you only had 0.25" left in jounce since the CV's are already pointed down in the stock ride height. Either way, I think better/stronger/higher angle CV's would be desirable. Do you have a way to measure the CV angle? I would be curious to see where you are at in jounce. Like I said, its not magic but I think theres significant potential left on the table. For example @BigMeatsBronco already increased his wheel travel substantially by increasing jounce travel. But that involved a lot of work that portals automatically solve (mostly).

 

[Ninjak]

His website states portals for all Raptor vehicles currently in development.
I'm riding the stage 3 on his portals with stock WT 2Dr suspension and dropped to a 410 axle ratio 37's nittos on +35 bead grips. They're pretty quiet. The only thing I hear is a little clickety click from about 8 mph down when I'm stopping

Thats a good-looking few doors Good job. .

 

[AttackGuy64]

If you're talking to me, sure. I don't know I get the tractor allegory, but I will point out lots of folks put all kinds of crap on their Broncos and spend a LOT more than $20k. Hell, a wrap and carbon fiber fender flares and whatnot gets you almost there. Wide body fender? Once body fitted and painted, you're close to $20k. Lots of folks got thousands wrapped up in lights they don't need. I don't get the naysayers talking all that smack about those being "for the 1%". Lots of shit, not even costly stuff, is only for 1%. I just don't get the moaning about 74Weld in particular.

Portals make room for huge tires, but do nothing for wheel articulation on their own. I would rather have a sensible suspension lift for say $5k, 37s on beadlocks for another $4-5k, bumpers and rails for $4k, and lights for another $3k than just portals. You plunk down your money and make your choices, but I feel like you get more for your money that way. Not trying to insult your wishes, just not my cup of tea. If 74Weld is comfortable at that price point, cool. More power to them. Just saying that most people are not going to give up that kind of coin unless they are rolling in loot.

Oops, forgot about the steering rack, another $4k.

 

[Valhalla]

Guess I am part of the 1%

Did you swap to a dana 60 rear and an ultimate front?

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