DSP tuning

[eduard4us]

assuming your time alignment is good, the other things you can check are #1 making sure you are using uncompressed files, and #2 tweaking the upper bass and the upper treble to see if its a matter of taste

Going to spend some more time this weekend. Great information and help, really appreciated!!

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[kevin.gt]

Regarding files, initially I used the mobile tools pink noise generator and it sounded different if going through carplay vs. my phone as a usb device. Ultimately I downloaded some pink noise wav files and play them through usb. I am by far no expert and admittedly am still tinkering with my dsp. I find I can only spend a few minutes tinkering before my ears adjust and I have learned if I keep going I’m probably making things worse

 

[Patrickgault]

Over my head, but I tried. Lol.

 

[Jbcaindo]

Regarding files, initially I used the mobile tools pink noise generator and it sounded different if going through carplay vs. my phone as a usb device. Ultimately I downloaded some pink noise wav files and play them through usb. I am by far no expert and admittedly am still tinkering with my dsp. I find I can only spend a few minutes tinkering before my ears adjust and I have learned if I keep going I’m probably making things worse

You shouldn't be sitting in the vehicle during a full rta session unless you're trying to verify left/right pull or level matching in the final touches.

You and your laptop should be outside.

 

[MKZoom]

REW is a free software that can be the center of all things measurement. it can generate and analyze the sound. highly recommended.

 

[mpeugeot]

I am using an Audiofrog target curve, the struggle I have is that everything sounds way too flat. I am running pink noise and measure everything with REW and the miniDSP UMK calibrated microphone but it does seem that the reflections are playing a huge role. I will try using an array of different microphones and see how that helps. I already wasted too much of my time on tuning the DSP.

I had that problem initially, so I got everything close, and the let my ears do a little bit of tweaking where I wasn't completely happy (mostly below 500 Hz and above 5000 Hz).

I was using REW and the miniDSP UMK-1 for the tuning. It worked pretty well. I am very happy with the sound now coming from the MoBridge DSP/amplifier.

 

[TT6gbd]

Can any of you share your final RTA graph? I’m trying to get an idea as I am having trouble with my dsp tuning to sound how I want. I tried flat with slight boost in the 3khz and up with the natural roll off, to me it sounds off and not powerful. I switched my morel tweeters for audiofrog gs25 wide bands up in dash corners and it got easier to tune but still no luck. I’m going to mess with crossover settings again. I feel with these broncos we can not use target curves. I also noticed that when I just upgraded all speakers the sound was smooth and warm just not loud and after amp and dsp the sound was loud but not pleasant to the ear. Does anyone have a RTA graph for stock setup

 

[MKZoom]

a target curve for a car is different than that of a room, namely, more bass. googling car target curve should pull up some of the more commonly used ones. use can use a target curve to give you a rough estimate of where you should be but there is more to the performance of a system than how it matches a curve. it becomes a bit of an art.

 

[eduard4us]

Can any of you share your final RTA graph? I’m trying to get an idea as I am having trouble with my dsp tuning to sound how I want. I tried flat with slight boost in the 3khz and up with the natural roll off, to me it sounds off and not powerful. I switched my morel tweeters for audiofrog gs25 wide bands up in dash corners and it got easier to tune but still no luck. I’m going to mess with crossover settings again. I feel with these broncos we can not use target curves. I also noticed that when I just upgraded all speakers the sound was smooth and warm just not loud and after amp and dsp the sound was loud but not pleasant to the ear. Does anyone have a RTA graph for stock setup

I almost always use the Harman target curve, I have a separate preset where I bump the curve in the 20-100hz by 3-5db with the shelf EQ.

https://www.audiofrog.com/a-note-about-target-curves/

 

[TT6gbd]

How do bump does frequency? Is it through the external dsp?

 

[MKZoom]

yes he is talking about tuning via an external DSP. one note: is that unless you have a good understanding of your speakers and amps capabilities, you should avoid boosts in the EQ. just do cuts

 

[eduard4us]

How do bump does frequency? Is it through the external dsp?

With the overall EQ in the mObridge

How do bump does frequency? Is it through the external dsp?

Do you have the mObridge amp/DSP installed?

 

[TT6gbd]

With the overall EQ in the mObridge

Do you have the mObridge amp/DSP installed?

I have a Musway M4+ 4ch amp dsp 100w @ 4 ohm. It also has rca outputs for another 4channels of dsp if you wish to add more amps. when I started the build I thought it was good to go but quickly ran into a bunch of problems and headaches. My system consists of morel maximo 602 mk2 component up front and morel Maximo 6.5 in the rear powered by the Musway. I threw a kicker 8 inch sub powered by kicker key 500.1. I got sound skins treatment for the kick panels and trunk area also sounds skin speaker rings. Initial set up was component up front running passive and coax rear powered by the dsp amp. For tuning I got the Dayton imm6 mic and studio six RTA. Dsp settings where 80hz to 20khz lr24 slopes, time alignment, gain all the way down used Andy’s target curve but everything sounded either to bright or to thin. I quickly realized that the tweeter in dash corners was a no go. I decided to go active and replaced the morel tweeters for audiofrog wideband gs25, so now the amp is only powering front stage and rear is running of oem HU. Again same thing the sound was weird the midrange was to harsh and thin and no tweeter frequency. I was using 80-350 for the 6.5 and 350hz-20khz for gs25. It felt like the little wideband speaker was doing all the work and the midbass was just doing nothing. I decided to play with the crossover and ended up with 80hz to 800hz on the 6.5 mid and 1khz-20khz on the audiofrog gs25. Right of the bat much better and more full. Also way easier to tune. Now it sounds loud and lots of headroom. But I feel like my mid bass is lacking a bit. I tried to seal all the holes in the kick panels wonder if that is preventing my midbass to sound good. I need to upgrade my 8inch sub to a 10inch because now it can’t keep up with my front stage.

 

[eduard4us]

I have a Musway M4+ 4ch amp dsp 100w @ 4 ohm. It also has rca outputs for another 4channels of dsp if you wish to add more amps. when I started the build I thought it was good to go but quickly ran into a bunch of problems and headaches. My system consists of morel maximo 602 mk2 component up front and morel Maximo 6.5 in the rear powered by the Musway. I threw a kicker 8 inch sub powered by kicker key 500.1. I got sound skins treatment for the kick panels and trunk area also sounds skin speaker rings. Initial set up was component up front running passive and coax rear powered by the dsp amp. For tuning I got the Dayton imm6 mic and studio six RTA. Dsp settings where 80hz to 20khz lr24 slopes, time alignment, gain all the way down used Andy’s target curve but everything sounded either to bright or to thin. I quickly realized that the tweeter in dash corners was a no go. I decided to go active and replaced the morel tweeters for audiofrog wideband gs25, so now the amp is only powering front stage and rear is running of oem HU. Again same thing the sound was weird the midrange was to harsh and thin and no tweeter frequency. I was using 80-350 for the 6.5 and 350hz-20khz for gs25. It felt like the little wideband speaker was doing all the work and the midbass was just doing nothing. I decided to play with the crossover and ended up with 80hz to 800hz on the 6.5 mid and 1khz-20khz on the audiofrog gs25. Right of the bat much better and more full. Also way easier to tune. Now it sounds loud and lots of headroom. But I feel like my mid bass is lacking a bit. I tried to seal all the holes in the kick panels wonder if that is preventing my midbass to sound good. I need to upgrade my 8inch sub to a 10inch because now it can’t keep up with my front stage.

I did not realize that your set up is not with a mObridge amp/dsp, I’m so sorry.
I’m not familiar with Musway but looking at some pictures of the software I was not able to find a global EQ option, only channel EQs. Is that right?

Many people are sensible to 1kHzto 3kHz range, including myself. One way to deal with that is to drop your target curve 3-5dB in that range and see if it helps. I do that with the global EQ, not the channel EQ.

Another thing is with the mid bass location in the Bronco, as I learned. The optimal filters seem to be 120Hz and 300-350Hz, acoustical. Due to location, the 6.5” drivers will not play lower, and beyond 300-400Hz you are losing SPL. Then when you are trying to EQ you will lose even more power. Run a sweep test on each individual mid bass driver without any filters and EQ applied and you will se what I’m talking about. That will also help you decide your low and high pass filters.


Then the integration of sub, mid bass, and midrange drivers is another factor to consider if your low end is not what you’re expecting. After many months of try and learn one thing is very clear for me, phase alignment is what needs to be used when aligning the sub to the mid bass pair drivers, and the mid bass pair to the midrange pair. I do time alignment only for right to left drivers and for midrange pair to tweeters pair.

 

[TT6gbd]

Yeah no global eq on Musway that I know of…I did drop the midrange output volume on each channel by about 3 db to meet target curve, by doing this the tuning was way easier and only had to increase the 5khz band by 1.5 db the rest of the eqing was basically lowering the bands. I tried the time alignment but made things worst huge bump from 500 to 2khz, have to revisit that stage. I had time alignment pretty good prior to going active but i noticed that the sound was not that great for passenger seat and rear passengers. Honestly I had sq builds in the past in an Audi a4 and Lexus is300 and I am coming to the conclusion that the bronco is not well for a sound quality build unless you have lots of time and money to throw at it. To begin the oem radio is trash even after dsp, the location of speakers is the worst and even if you upgrade rear to 6.5 those little enclosures suck at producing midbass. I am now just going for a louder clean output sound for all passengers to enjoy since I’m also planning to keep top off during summer. If I had to do it over again I would go 8ch amp dsp, audiofrog gs60 kickpanels, audiofrog gb15 tweeter in dash corner (plays down to about 1.3khz so it would blend well with mid, audiofrog gs42 for rears just for rear fill and jlaudio or audiofrog 10inch sub all running active. As far as my midbass right now I just feel that sealing all the cavities with sound treatment in that kick panel is reducing the midbass to play well in the lower frequencies because the stock speaker had a little bit lower bass if i remember correctly who knows I have to remove panel and remove some of the sound treatment covering holes and compare left to right.

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