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John Auer

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CAFE has to be addressed, maybe that is why a split is not a split?
That may have something to do with it, but I don't think the Ford family would go along with it. Eventually, Ford Blue will die, leaving Ford e standing. Once that happens, they'll probably just go back to being just Ford.
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John Auer

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Ford is saying very little about their future business model plans as it pertains to dealerships, but I think Ford will ultimately want to be able to sell directly to the consumer. They'll be able to use Tesla's model as a track to run on. We're already seeing ads by Ford, incentivizing people to order their vehicles online. Dealers will be paid a commission for doing PDI and delivery.
 

thenewjs

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Looks like FORD is going to leverage changing consumer trends towards EVs and may begin selling EV’s direct to consumers.
 
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North7

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Ford is saying very little about their future business model plans as it pertains to dealerships, but I think Ford will ultimately want to be able to sell directly to the consumer. They'll be able to use Tesla's model as a track to run on. We're already seeing ads by Ford, incentivizing people to order their vehicles online. Dealers will be paid a commission for doing PDI and delivery.
Looks like FORD is going to leverage changing consumer trends towards EVs and may begin selling EV’s direct to consumers.
Ford started something like this once and got bulldozed by the Ford Dealer's Council, it quickly failed.


Perhaps you've heard of the product they tried it on, it was called the Bronco.
 

John Auer

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Ford started something like this once and got bulldozed by the Ford Dealer's Council, it quickly failed.


That was a long time ago, my friend. What’s going on now is a version of brick and mortar vs. the internet. The EV is going to be Ford’s ticket out of the current business model. They’re not happy with the shenanigans the dealers are pulling, and more importantly, they want to reap the extra profits the dealers are pocketing.
 

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North7

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That was a long time ago, my friend. What’s going on now is a version of brick and mortar vs. the internet. The EV is going to be Ford’s ticket out of the current business model. They’re not happy with the shenanigans the dealers are pulling, and more importantly, they want to reap the extra profits the dealers are pocketing.
2020 was a long time ago? :unsure:
 

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I'll just leave this here...

Who is that in the video other than Mr. Fiat Jeep himself, Mike Manely.

Big U.S. auto dealers bet billions against the death of the dealership
Good article. I don’t think dealers are going to go away, but they will definitely change. I like the agency model that was quoted in the article. Europe is transitioning to this model. You purchase the vehicle directly from the OEM. The dealer is paid a commission to do the PDI and delivery. The dealer has plenty of opportunity to sell additional products, deal on trade ins and possibly financing. If your business depends on laws to protect your business model, you’re in trouble.
 

BrentC

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I’m with you, all the way up to the comment about Asia. Let me explain.

Business trip to Shanghai in 2009, downtown is littered with junky gas-powered scooters.

Business trip to Shanghai in 2019, downtown is littered with junky electric-powered scooters. Complete replacement.

It’ll take a while for cars but every Buick, VW, and Nissan driving around Shanghai is built right there.
Shangai’s one thing, rural China, India, Africa etc. is another.

In Bali, what I noticed were most scooters were newer and 4-stroke. The air was clean and the scooters were quiet.

The ‘petrol station’ - simple and effective.
12F226B1-5201-40AB-B2A3-2E1362B01F3C.jpeg
 

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I sent an email to my rep yesterday AM and told him what I thought this move was about. In the afternoon I got this....

AutoNews Now: Ford CEO Jim Farley's message to dealers: Be ready to specialize Video from Automotive News

Basically what I told him was going to happen. Cram a ton of facilities requirements on the dealers for EV, dealers balk and dropping $6M, Ford sells direct, dealers still required to do warranty work on EVs but get no benefit from the sale. Same is going to happen with their commercial business and eventually Lincoln if it lasts that long.
 

TeocaliMG

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Ford started something like this once and got bulldozed by the Ford Dealer's Council, it quickly failed.


Perhaps you've heard of the product they tried it on, it was called the Bronco.
Times are changing I think. I have had positive experiences with the dealer but every dollar of ADM that goes in the pocket of Mr. 3rd generation car lot king is a dollar out of the OEMs margin. I place some of the fault at the OEM pricing, they should be more reactive to the market, to the point that MSRP chases the lower acceptable range of what we now call ADM (probably illegal because of the dealer cartel laws).

Regardless I think the current dealer model is at an all time low with public favor, and since they effectively lobbied their existence in the first place, now is as good a time as ever to change things. EVs somehow provide a loophole (idk the details) that make it much easier for the OEM to run a direct order business despite the laws around dealers. Ford as well as any of the old guard OEMs desperately want those profit margins that the dealers pocket for little effort, and imo they are the rightful owner of that value.
 
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North7

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Times are changing I think. I have had positive experiences with the dealer but every dollar of ADM that goes in the pocket of Mr. 3rd generation car lot king is a dollar out of the OEMs margin. I place some of the fault at the OEM pricing, they should be more reactive to the market, to the point that MSRP chases the lower acceptable range of what we now call ADM (probably illegal because of the dealer cartel laws).

Regardless I think the current dealer model is at an all time low with public favor, and since they effectively lobbied their existence in the first place, now is as good a time as ever to change things. EVs somehow provide a loophole (idk the details) that make it much easier for the OEM to run a direct order business despite the laws around dealers. Ford as well as any of the old guard OEMs desperately want those profit margins that the dealers pocket for little effort, and imo they are the rightful owner of that value.
That is good to hear, @TeocaliMG, I highly respect your consumer feedback as a Bronco enthusiast and Ford engineering employee. As a fellow engineer, but in the aerospace industry, I've also worked the business side of the house so I may bring a little bit of a different perspective.

Your observation of OEM's now wanting to implement corporate ADM is going to make consumers go nuclear. The vast majority of consumers, in normal times, expect to pay MSRP, if not invoice or somewhere in between. Regarding the dealers rip-off scheme of ADM / Market Adjustment, there is a saying, "You can screw some of the consumers some of the time, but you can't screw all of the consumers all of the time".

If Ford thinks they can sell vehicles $5K, $10K, $20k, etc. above MSRP, they are going to have many leftover vehicles sitting on the lots, just what they are trying to avoid. If Ford thinks they can take the ADM profit, some dealers make, on some sales, out of the dealers pocket, they are going to have a fight with the Ford Dealers Council, regardless of how we all agree this is a slimily business practice. Further, Ford is going to find that the their customer loyalty percentage of 54% is going to go further in the tank, requiring Ford to find more than the current 46% replacement / new customers they must find each year though Conquest Sales.

Sincerely, one of the 46%'s

J.D. Power 2021 U.S. Automotive Brand Loyalty Study
Ford Bronco Ford Announces Separate "Model e" EV Division and "Ford Blue" Internal Combustion Division 2021123b
 
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Magic

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Ford started something like this once and got bulldozed by the Ford Dealer's Council, it quickly failed.


Perhaps you've heard of the product they tried it on, it was called the Bronco.
Ford actually started doing this in 2017 with Ford GT sales and will close out this model's production run this year using it. You place an order directly through Ford and final paperwork, payment, and delivery was handled by dealership of the buyer's choice. No ADMs allowed that I'm aware off. Vehicle cost was MSRP plus TTL.

My experience was it worked out very well!
 

TeocaliMG

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That is good to hear, @TeocaliMG, I highly respect your consumer feedback as a Bronco enthusiast and Ford engineering employee. As a fellow engineer, but in the aerospace industry, I've also worked the business side of the house so I may bring a little bit of a different perspective.

Your observation of OEM's now wanting to implement corporate ADM is going to make consumers go nuclear. The vast majority of consumers, in normal times, expect to pay MSRP, if not invoice or somewhere in between. Regarding the dealers rip-off scheme of ADM / Market Adjustment, there is a saying, "You can screw some of the consumers some of the time, but you can't screw all of the consumers all of the time".

If Ford thinks they can sell vehicles $5K, $10K, $20k, etc. above MSRP, they are going to have many leftover vehicles sitting on the lots, just what they are trying to avoid. If Ford thinks they can take the ADM profit, some dealers make, on some sales, out of the dealers pocket, they are going to have a fight with the Ford Dealers Council, regardless of how we all agree this is a slimily business practice. Further, Ford is going to find that the their customer loyalty percentage of 54% is going to go further in the tank, requiring Ford to find more than the current 46% replacement / new customers they must find each year though Conquest Sales.

Sincerely, one of the 46%'s

J.D. Power 2021 U.S. Automotive Brand Loyalty Study
I agree whole heartedly that the practice is not sustainable long term. I think most of the time you see outrageous ADM is when there is a period of time when supply and demand are way out of normal ranges. My point is only that the OEM gets "shafted" because they are the ones who provide the incentive when the tables get turned, but when you have the short periods of hyper demand, they get practically nothing. That effects the bottom line. This period of time may not last long but when you apply it to every dealer for each applicable model for its period of high demand, that certainly would add up. As much as everyone would like to see no ADM (or OEM equivalent) the OEM should operate right at the intersection of selling vehicles literally as fast as you can make them and selling cars for absolutely as much as allows that to happen. Right now OEMs have to share or surrender that second lever to the dealer.
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