Neutral Tow / Transmission Problem

[dgorsett]

No 6g Bronco has any kind of steering lock, Wranglers did away with steering lock half way through 2008, and haven't had one since. With Modern electronics, Transponder Keys, and Vehicle Immobilizers, steering that locks is just a redundant inconvenience, and most vehicle manufacturers did away with it years ago.

Good to know, so I wonder if you could tow in Park? Might cause a myriad of other issues, but at least you'd know if you were in neutral tow

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[zuke]

Good to know, so I wonder if you could tow in Park? Might cause a myriad of other issues, but at least you'd know if you were in neutral tow

I've never flat towed my Bronco, and it's a manual anyway, but if the manual says to leave the auto in neutral, I gotta think there is a reason for it, I just don't know what it is. maybe simply as a backup for it to take another couple miles to do serious damage after the TC mysteriously shifts back into gear?

 

[gweberg29]

Hi Guys, Good exchange. To be honest our newest vehicle is a 2010 before we bought our new 2023 Bronco. We have 4 vehicles now, all bought new and keep up really well. I have not even checked to see if our new Bronco has steering lock. I have to assume you are correct, no steering lock. We have always put our 99 Dakota in neutral as a back to if the tcase locked up when flat towing. If FORD is requiring the Bronco transmission to be in neutral as a backup to self destruct and not lock up the rear wheels if the tcase locked up, what an accusation. Yes I would think a tcase would lock up hard, but an automatic transmission might just die in a way to not lock things up. Wow.

But back to what is causing the tcase to lockup, i.e. leave neutral, exit tow mode? Yes I hear that the Broncos are saying the tcase is still in tow mode, but I'm thinking the system does not know the case did go into gear. Just a guess at this point. Not enough info being shared if known.

 

[grtharris]

Hi grharris,

First I agree, it is not possible to get the detail needed on this this thread let alone the other thread, way to chatter and very little real substance. This thread is a least has several testimonies, just not enough detail. After years of flat towing our old Dakota successfully, we just cannot bring ourselves to flat tow our new expensive Bronco.

You commented about a work around that not longer works. Do you mind sharing that with me and why you feel its not appropriate now. And how do you know you are getting updates in your driveway? I need to search the system for this information, but is there a feature to turn on update notifications?

Yes, if we were to ever flat tow our bronco, much research is needed on the braking systems. Our old Dokoda has an inertia system that pulls the brake pedal by a vacuum feed. Integrated braking systems sounds scary.

Yes on the transmission failure I agree.

Yes perhaps missing a step is possible, but I have major OCD and I'm too scared on missing a step. But still we are not ready now to take the step to flat tow our new bronco. Even with accepting we may have to be out 10k.

I wish so much for more detail. I am a problem solve my career and by having OCD. Oh well. I am just keep waiting for more detail. I ask anyone that had a this tranmissoin failure for more detail. We need to have constuctive conversation. I truely believe there is a problem here that is not caused by human error.

The original problem on the 2.7 V6 with electrical brake boost, the brake boost would stay on for around 30 minutes after the doors were closed then go to sleep. This made setting up a brake system in the tow a bit of a problem.
The Ford software fix keeps the brake boost off when in tow mode.
Before the software download anytime you lock the doors the brake boost timer would restart. I made a device that would set the door lock when the motorhome brakes pedal was pressed turning the boost back on.
Note about the over the air software fix: It appears to work by disabling the brake boost while in Tow Mode and you get serval warnings that were not there before. There are a few people out there that have had there Tow brakes lock up like the boost came back on. There is also talk that there is a dealer installed software that also needs to be done.
I'm pretty sure I have experienced this anomaly recently. Was on a two lane road and was slowing down for a bridge and got this tug like the motorhome down shifted. The tow brakes released as soon as I lifted the brake pedal in the motorhome. Did a manual brake with the brake controller and it did again, then no more.

 

[Blue Bulldog]

Hi Guys, Good exchange. To be honest our newest vehicle is a 2010 before we bought our new 2023 Bronco. We have 4 vehicles now, all bought new and keep up really well. I have not even checked to see if our new Bronco has steering lock. I have to assume you are correct, no steering lock. We have always put our 99 Dakota in neutral as a back to if the tcase locked up when flat towing. If FORD is requiring the Bronco transmission to be in neutral as a backup to self destruct and not lock up the rear wheels if the tcase locked up, what an accusation. Yes I would think a tcase would lock up hard, but an automatic transmission might just die in a way to not lock things up. Wow.

But back to what is causing the tcase to lockup, i.e. leave neutral, exit tow mode? Yes I hear that the Broncos are saying the tcase is still in tow mode, but I'm thinking the system does not know the case did go into gear. Just a guess at this point. Not enough info being shared if known.

Hello

I'm one of the unfortunate bronco owners that had to deal with this. Mine happened back in the spring. Lots of posts at that time. Ford spun me in circles with the dealer. In the end I paid to get it fixed. Now have a small claims trial against Ford in June.
I'm watching these posts closely for some diagnosis and insight as to why they are warranting some and not others.
In the end I purchased it so I could tow it behind my motorhome. How could we ever trust that it won't happen again?
I'm now looking for an aluminum car trailer.

 

[gweberg29]

Hi gtharris, thanks for the detail. I hear you. Don't understand the EBB yet. But good stuff to try to digest. Someday I still want to tow our Bronco after there is good work around. Don't really expect a FORD fix.


Hi, Blue Dog, I plan on watching these post for details as well. I can only hope. And wishing you the best on the law suit. Maybe it will help us all, and you will be compensated.

I just took home a new Aluma 16-foot 2024 trailer, 8216TA, to trailer our new Bronco. 8,800 plus tax and fees. Purchased because I learned about the Bronco transmission issue at a Bronco Magazine rally after we got our Bronco. We don't want to break this very expense toy, or risk an accident. Trailer took 3 months to come in. Researched a lot. I got it short on purpose to stay shorter than 60 feet to fit in a RV park/campground 65 pull through. We have a Class C RV, but I know we can pull from experience. Not sure if it being so short will cause a tongue weight issue, but I can fix. Got COVID and I am still down. But now we don't plan on using on cross county trips, as unloading the Bronco and parking the trailer I feel will be a bummer after thinking more about it. It would be doable though. Just have to find the right parks. But love to be able to unhook a go quickly and then re-hookup quickly. Been doing for 10 years now. Will just continue to tow our old Dakoda on road trips. Glad we keep it. Feel very fortunate we have this alterative. But really wanted to take our Bronco. Will use the trailer for Rocky Mountain trail head parking in parks designed for people hauling toys to play off road. Love four wheeling this Bronco.

 

[gweberg29]

Here is a very interesting YouTube video I came across on another thread!!! It shows the internals of our tcases. It also talks about Sport mode and HA driving modes. Very good!!! It shows that in some cases all that needed to be done to repair a tcase would be to change its clutch pack. 200 bucks and 2 hours of labor. It also shows that the oil pump is driven off the input shaft coming from the transmission not from the output shaft as many have stated. Thus it seems to me for our broncos tcases to be lubricated the transmission must be turning. Interesting. Thus perhaps this is why the transmission must be in neutral. Can someone with more auto mechanical experience please chime in. It certainly does not solve the flat tow transmission failure issue, but maybe its a clue that someone can run with.

 

[gweberg29]

HOPE SOMEONE FINDS THIS HELPFUL - I WILL POST ON ALL THREADS BELOW - WORK IN PROGRESS

Flat Tow Transmission Failures – as of 02/22/23 – A work in progress – May have missed someone

Thread 1 – (06/03/22) Bronco won’t go back to drive after disengaging tow [2] – Checked 01/18/23

Thread 2 – (10/28/22) Neutral Tow / Transmission Problem [12] – Need to go back through – Long tread

Thread 3 – (07/09/23) Ford claims flat towing our 4 mo. old Bronco destroyed the transmission (not covering under warranty [14] – Need to go back through – Long tread

Thread 4 – (08/08/23) Flat tow won’t disengage [1] – Checked 01/18/23

Thread 5 – (08/16/23) Flat tow failure [3] – Checked 01/18/23

Thread 6 - (11/18/23) Flat tow failure (2) [1] – Checked 01/18/2

Thread 7 – (08/28/23) Bronco Raptor Transmission Troubles Anyone? [3] – Checked 01/18/23

----------------------------------------------------------

1) @Rgarrison58 – Thread 1 – 6/3/22 – Transmission Failure – Ford WILL cover

2) @Bad Sas – Thread 2 – 10/28/22 – Transmission issue – No resolution posted

3) @Blue Bulldog – Thread 2 – 4/12/23 – Transmission failed – Ford will NOT cover - Suing

4) @GddyupGG – Thread 1/2 – 4/19/23 – Transmission failed – Ford will NOT cover – Insurance WILL cover

5) @G6Bronco – Thread 4/5/3 – (08/16/23) – Transmission failed – Ford will NOT cover – Hired attorneys

6) @Bukin67 – Thread 7 – (08/28/23 – Transmission failed – Ford will NOT cover

7) @aknavy – Thread 2 – (08/21/23) – Transmission failed – Ford DID cover

8) @Lisa Aiudi – Thread 3 – (09/09/23 – Transmission failure – Ford will NOT cover

9) @delynn.gibson – Thread 4 – (09/21/23) – Stuck in tow mode – Trase electric motor failed – Ford will cover

10) @Peter Cole – Thread 6 – (11/18/23) – Transmission, Tcase, Oil cooler failed, Ford will NOT cover

 

[pillar406]

Ford customer service is horrible. The dealership is following some memo and they are refusing to warranty our transmission even though they cannot provide me with anything stating the vehicle was not in flat tow neutral. Dealer won't return calls and customer service will only send e-mails. HORRIBLE SERVICE

If its a good dealership, they will do the work to determine if it was flat tow related. I had one and based on my findings I assumed it was due to improperly towing. The owner then showed me a video that showed the neutral tow engaged. So I wrote it up as warrantable. Some people are sticklers for the memos. I like to do my due diligence because I am a little OCD when it comes to working on vehicles. I hate come backs.

 

[Bsenecal]

If its a good dealership, they will do the work to determine if it was flat tow related. I had one and based on my findings I assumed it was due to improperly towing. The owner then showed me a video that showed the neutral tow engaged. So I wrote it up as warrantable. Some people are sticklers for the memos. I like to do my due diligence because I am a little OCD when it comes to working on vehicles. I hate come backs.

Sounds like the moral is to video each time so you have proof in the event of a failure.
Brian

 

[pillar406]

Sounds like the moral is to video each time so you have proof in the event of a failure.
Brian

Kinda. There is no refuting that kind of evidence. Ford even asked how I determined that it was warrantable. I told them about the video and explained that the owner told me exactly how they set up neutral tow and when I said it was verbatim what their guide was. They said okay go ahead.

 

[flip]

Sounds like the moral is to video each time so you have proof in the event of a failure.
Brian

Sounds like the moral is to video each time so you have proof in the event of a failure not say a damn thing about the vehicle being towed unless 100% absolutely necessary. "It just quit working while I was driving."

 

[G6Bronco]

Sounds like the moral is to video each time so you have proof in the event of a failure.
Brian

dealer told me video is meaningless, they go the codes only. just saying

 

[pillar406]

Ford just released this broadcast message to its dealers today.

Jan 23 2024 New 2021-2024 Bronco - Stuck In Neutral Tow Mode - Built On Or Before 12-Jan-2024

Some 2021-2024 Bronco vehicles equipped with 4x4 with part time engagement and built on or before 12-Jan-2024 may exhibit a condition of the vehicle being stuck in neutral tow mode. This may be due to a concern with the all-wheel drive (AWD) module software. Make sure the proper procedure is being followed to exit neutral tow mode by referring to the Owner's Manual > Towing Your Vehicle > Recreationally Towing Your Vehicle. Make sure the vehicle's battery is fully charged and then diagnose all diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) in the AWD module. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 307-07A. If diagnostics do not resolve the concern or there are no DTCs present in the AWD module, reprogram the AWD module using the latest software level of the Ford Diagnosis and Repair System (FDRS) diagnostic scan tool. Refer to the appropriate section of the WSM. Once the repair is complete, verify the vehicle's ability to successfully enter and exit neutral tow mode by cycling the vehicle in and out of neutral tow mode a minimum of two times, allowing the vehicle to enter sleep mode (key-off for at least 5 minutes) between each cycle. This software release will have no other impact on the neutral tow experience or operation from current design. For claiming, use causal part 7P238 and applicable labor operations in Section 07 of the Service Labor Time Standards (SLTS) Manual.

 

[Bsenecal]

Ford just released this broadcast message to its dealers today.

Jan 23 2024 New 2021-2024 Bronco - Stuck In Neutral Tow Mode - Built On Or Before 12-Jan-2024

Some 2021-2024 Bronco vehicles equipped with 4x4 with part time engagement and built on or before 12-Jan-2024 may exhibit a condition of the vehicle being stuck in neutral tow mode. This may be due to a concern with the all-wheel drive (AWD) module software. Make sure the proper procedure is being followed to exit neutral tow mode by referring to the Owner's Manual > Towing Your Vehicle > Recreationally Towing Your Vehicle. Make sure the vehicle's battery is fully charged and then diagnose all diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs) in the AWD module. Refer to Workshop Manual (WSM), Section 307-07A. If diagnostics do not resolve the concern or there are no DTCs present in the AWD module, reprogram the AWD module using the latest software level of the Ford Diagnosis and Repair System (FDRS) diagnostic scan tool. Refer to the appropriate section of the WSM. Once the repair is complete, verify the vehicle's ability to successfully enter and exit neutral tow mode by cycling the vehicle in and out of neutral tow mode a minimum of two times, allowing the vehicle to enter sleep mode (key-off for at least 5 minutes) between each cycle. This software release will have no other impact on the neutral tow experience or operation from current design. For claiming, use causal part 7P238 and applicable labor operations in Section 07 of the Service Labor Time Standards (SLTS) Manual.

Interesting, thanks for sharing.
Brian

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