Radiator cleaning questions (2.3L)

[Ducati1098]

Yeah, I was watching the oil temp since it displays a number to monitor. But that's a good reminder that is likely not the temp that triggers the alarm. I didn't know the oil temp is inferred, interesting. I didn't even pay attn to the bar graph temp in the moment. Also wouldn't have thought turning on AC would help oil temps.

Is there a way to see coolant temp number on the gauge cluster? I have not found it poking around yet.

Yeah 230 oil temperature wouldn’t cause a reduced power message. Whatever caused that should’ve set a code though, even if it didn’t set a check engine light.

There’s no way to see the coolant temp on stock cluster, you’d have to use something aftermarket plugged into the OBD2 port that reads data.

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[crenca]

Two thoughts:

As others have noted the oil temp is inferred on 2.3 (not sure about 2.7). I use the Ford Performance doo-hooky thingy that is used to upload the FP tune to show me actual intake air temp, coolant temp, and cylinder head temp. The manual has no tranmission temp sensor I do not believe. Assuming you have check your coolant level and it is good, I would back your plan to triple check your radiator to verify it is not caked in mud even if that means removing the shroud to get a good look. Mud, at least from the soil that can be found around here, can harden into a concrete like consistency that takes alot of water (and time) to chip away at it.

Also, I run the AC just about all the time, even if I am blowing heat. My 2.3 with a manual just seems to depend on it, as the water/cylinder head temps climb even under moderate loads if I don't. I suspect it is a design oversight on Ford's part - the radiator only seems to get enough air (to do its job) with the AC on.

 

[Tonka Bronka]

On the flats we were running 210 to 215, but on longer climbs we crossed 230 several times and got the "reduced power" message on the dash once. This was on Northeast TN, afternoon temps were in the mid-80's.

Manual transmission, and I always to keep the tach at 2k or above on hills, so usually 5th gear uphill on the highway, 6th gear on flats runs.

I think it's possible that you're lugging it a little. Too much boost for too long? Sweet spot is more like 3K in my experience with the same engine and trans, and towing with it. Or you may need a washout. Just my thoughts.

 

[Charley]

As @crenca mentioned, check your radiator again. If you were running trails in Kentucky, whether the DBBB, the KAT, or one of the adventure parks, there is that faux-mud substance called clay. And yes it hardens like concrete.
On my 20219 Ranger I once had a big clump of it attached to inside of a front wheel, caliper and tie rod. Wasn’t too bad when wet and at sub 25 mph on the trail, but above that on the road it was way out of balance. Finally found an old style car wash and with the combination of high pressure and a pry bar I got it removed.

 

[Fillups]

As @crenca mentioned, check your radiator again. If you were running trails in Kentucky, whether the DBBB, the KAT, or one of the adventure parks, there is that faux-mud substance called clay. And yes it hardens like concrete.
On my 20219 Ranger I once had a big clump of it attached to inside of a front wheel, caliper and tie rod. Wasn’t too bad when wet and at sub 25 mph on the trail, but above that on the road it was way out of balance. Finally found an old style car wash and with the combination of high pressure and a pry bar I got it removed.

Yes, that's the area! KY mud/clay mixture. Mostly DBBB trails and also a couple trips to LBL (Land Between the Lakes for those not from around here). LBL mud is a special breed. I'm going to pull off the top shroud this weekend and see if I can get better access for rinsing. I even bought one of the fun radiator Genie wands to try.

I will also try running at higher RPMs, especially on hills. Thx for the tips!

 

[Brian_B]

The temp bar indicator in the lower left under the analog speedo is the only way to know coolant temp without plugging something in, and it won't show the actual number - just a bar.

I've never seen mine move off middle of the bar though - but oil temp will swing anywhere from 180-235° depending on what I'm doing.

Agree with most - clean it out with a hose and just regular soap before you do anything crazy - make sure you don't have some aftermarket light bar or custom winch bracket or something in the way of the grill, the coolant reservoir level is in the right spot, and make sure both the electric fans are working and spinning as they should.

Could also be a problem with the thermostat, but I'd check the easy stuff first.

 

[Brian_B]

Also, I run the AC just about all the time, even if I am blowing heat. My 2.3 with a manual just seems to depend on it, as the water/cylinder head temps climb even under moderate loads if I don't. I suspect it is a design oversight on Ford's part - the radiator only seems to get enough air (to do its job) with the AC on.

If I have the AC on it definitely helps the oil temps (although I'm not convinced that running it at 190 as opposed to 220 is good or bad really) - but I've never seen the coolant temp move no matter what I do once it gets up to temp, at least as far as the instrument cluster is concerned. Always 4 bars on the indicator.

You are right though - the radiator fan strategy changes drastically with the AC setting. With the AC off, I've noticed that most of the time the radiator fans won't even move at all while off roading - just bump a little bit every now and then, and oil temps will be up around 220°. Turn the AC on, fans will kick on, and oil temp drops. But again, never seen the coolant temp move either way.

 

[crenca]

You are right though - the radiator fan strategy changes drastically with the AC setting. With the AC off, I've noticed that most of the time the radiator fans won't even move at all while off roading - just bump a little bit every now and then, and oil temps will be up around 220°. Turn the AC on, fans will kick on, and oil temp drops. But again, never seen the coolant temp move either way.

Interesting. I can report that with the AC off, on a moderate-to-hot day (particularly with wind behind you) on a slow trail here, the water & cylinder head temp's climb pretty much in step (though not quite as much) as the "inferred" reading of the oil temp (as reported by the ProCal). That said I don't recall ever looking at those bars - sort of forgot they are there given I have the Procal mounted on my dash all the time.

Turn the AC on, and they drop almost to normal (say, down to 190-205 water temp as opposed to something like 180-190 on the street). I am trying to to recall, I think I have seen about 225-ish without the AC on before I remembered to turn AC on...don't think I ever let it go higher.

 

[Brian_B]

Interesting. I can report that with the AC off, on a moderate-to-hot day (particularly with wind behind you) on a slow trail here, the water & cylinder head temp's climb pretty much in step (though not quite as much) as the "inferred" reading of the oil temp (as reported by the ProCal). That said I don't recall ever looking at those bars - sort of forgot they are there given I have the Procal mounted on my dash all the time.

Turn the AC on, and they drop almost to normal (say, down to 190-205 water temp as opposed to something like 180-190 on the street). I am trying to to recall, I think I have seen about 225-ish without the AC on before I remembered to turn AC on...don't think I ever let it go higher.

I may set up a monitor or data log run to watch this next time I go up.

 

[Fillups]

I was able to I use the radiator Genie wands this morning, air and then water. Seems like a good combo, getting decent amount of dust out before using the water. I can see how it would help more to have the other kind of very thin wand to get between the condenser and radiator. But I had good success getting the wand in between the fan blades spraying water forward. I could see between the condenser and radiator with a light and see the rinse water go from brown to clear. Although it's hard to rinse the parts just in front of the fan motors.

Got on the highway for a road trip this afternoon and seems better! Now that I'm watching both gauges, it's clear the oil temp fluctuates a lot more than the coolant bar graph. Today on some small hills I noticed the oil gauge fluctuating 15 to 20° with no movement in the bar graph. Seems odd.

I also see how higher RPM helps keep the oil temps down a little on hills. My not-so-scientific test was to set the cruise control at 72 and 5th and 6th gear. Mild hills on the highway, oil temp got up to 228 max in 6th gear and 222 or less at the same speed in 5th gear. Didn't get a pic in 5th gear.

I'll experiment little more, but think I'm out of the danger zone for now.

 

[bobogto]

I have a 4 door manual and even in 100F heat on the hwy 75MPH I haven't been able to see higher than 220F on oil. How ever accurate that is. Now that's usually on flat Midwest and TX trips. 6th gear, boost between 0-2 psi. Big Bend tires. Recently got Sasquatch wheels. That motor struggles a lot more with bigger tires and hills. Now even going to work daily I get 10PSI regularly. That being said even with the big wheels on a recent trip I didn't see oil temp past 210 with the big tires and 55MPH-70MPH speeds. Again that's all oil temps according to the cluster.

In my opinion you have an issue and it might not be just the radiator.
I speculate that due to intended use and given 2 engine options the radiator for the 2.3 is actually an overkill. Even after driving, idling at one place in 90F ambient temps mine rarely turns on the fans and it will keep 90C just from the radiator itself and no airflow.

Check your louvers. Those could be getting stuck, although I think they will set a code.

Check codes and see if that "reduced power" was even related to overheating. Check your actual coolant temp. Not sure how Ford odes it, but my BMW has the needle sitting at 12 o'clock anywhere from 85C to 107C because it considers all of those temps normal. So you need a scanner to read actual temps. Not just the bars in the cluster. I've looked into mine and I still don't know what Ford considers normal, but the highest coolant temp I've seen on mine is 93C. If your coolant temps go past 95C or 100C I would consider that a problem, even tho it seems the Bronco uses a closed type coolant system and theoretically it could run over 100C. Again, I don't know what's the normal operating range. I didn't see anyone mentioning it here.

I would replace coolant also. I know it's extremely unlikely, but you could have sludge or coolant degradation. Ford's coolant is not good in my opinion, so at the very least it should be changed regularly. I had coolant separation and crap in the surge tank the 2nd week when I bought it, got rid of if immediately. Running BMW coolant currently. I was going to replace it even this year after 3 years, but stupid block heater recall is not out yet and I'm pretty sure I would have to put Ford coolant back for that... and then drain it again.

Throwing parts at it... Replace the thermostat also. It might not be your issue, but I consider that a maintenance item anyway.

 

[AZMikeL]

My oil regularly hits the low 250s mark climbing the last 10-ish miles to Payson (7% grade, 65+ mph). I do pull it down to 7th for that climb, but boost is still running 10+ psi at 3k+ rpm to lug the heavy brick up that hill. My old 6.7 super duty would also get really hot up that climb when I had the big 5th wheel in tow. Cools right back down to normal as soon as I get to the top. You only really need to start worrying if oil temp is sustained at 265 or higher. Full synthetic oil can handle even higher temps. Unless you got that hot, it was not likely temp that caused the reduced power message.

I often see 210 on the freeways around Phoenix when it's 110 or more out. As mentioned earlier, turning the AC on will drastically reduce temps when driving slow. Probably doesn't make much difference at highway speeds.

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