2021 Bronco Base DIED WHILE DRIVING today

[JimL]

I find it curious that in the “two” incidents being cited here, in neither case did the drivers even attempt to use the e-brake. And then the B6G crowd piles on claiming e-brakes are worthless. I use my e-brake every single time I park my Bronco (I have a 7MT). The e-brake is in an easy reach spot in an emergency and activate as fast as a manually operated brake would.

I personally fail to understand the hate toward e-brakes, and I don’t understand why people refuse to use them.

I was test-driving a new Fusion once when it ran out of gas on a highway off-ramp, at speed. I was able to use a combination of existing momentum and gradually using the hand brake (holding in the button with my thumb so the ratchet wouldn't catch) to feather off speed. I was able to get it into a parking lot just 1/4 mile from the dealership, into a parking spot. Yeah it was hard to steer, esp with one hand while I worked the brake with the other. That salesman was damned impressed and honestly so was I. Hand E-brake levers are the best

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[JimL]

All this talk losing this, losing that when electrical/computer systems go haywire.

I believe this is where 7sp owners have a distinct advantage. There's nothing in the Bronco (that I'm aware of) that can stop you from pushing the clutch pedal and moving the gear shift. You may not be able to emergency stop per se, but you can certainly slam-dunk it into 1st or 2nd to slow things down pretty quickly.

That's when I'd be nervously remembering that the manual tranny is made in China. Pisses me off to no end that Ford does that.

 

[Ducati1098]

It would roll away while in “park”. They’d figure it out As far as I know, autos don’t actually go in to “park” while at speed. That would be silly. The shifter will go in to “park”, but the pawl isn’t going to engage.

You're right that it would roll in park if the parking pawl was broken so it should be very obvious.
While there is nothing stopping the parking pawl from attempting to engage, depending on the speed of the output shaft, there's a good chance the parking pawl wouldn't be able to actually engage and it would just grind on outside of the output shaft gear until it slows down enough to catch one of the spots it locks into.
But regardless, the parking pawl and output shaft need to be inspected because now there is potential damage to either one (or both) which could cause a future safety concern.

 

[da_jokker]

The eBrake disengages automatically when you start to drive.... So it would make sense that Ford states you have to hold it.

In one of MORR's videos, they rescued a Bronco that wasn't running. Even Matt had a really tough time trying to steer without power assist....so I think it is possible, just really really hard.

People are comparing it to manual steering, and I think it's worse. At least with manual steering, as long as you're rolling it's not too bad. I have a feeling with this new electric steering, the way it is geared/connected makes for very hard leverage.

I can't imagine it is even possible to man handle the steering with one hand, while you are using the other hand to hold up a plastic handle without breaking it off.

 

[2023bronco]

It would roll away while in “park”. They’d figure it out As far as I know, autos don’t actually go in to “park” while at speed. That would be silly. The shifter will go in to “park”, but the pawl isn’t going to engage.

If you park the way you're actually supposed to, you may not know, especially on level ground.
(With foot on brake) In gear -> neutral -> set brake -> park.

 

[zuke]

People are comparing it to manual steering, and I think it's worse. At least with manual steering, as long as you're rolling it's not too bad. I have a feeling with this new electric steering, the way it is geared/connected makes for very hard leverage.

I think the proper comparison is any vehicle with Power Steering when the Power Steering is out...
and more properly, Any Truck/SUV with power steering. I've had quite a few International Scouts, with and without Power Steering.

The ones with manual steering ran a much higher ratio (How far you have to turn the wheel vs how far the wheels actually turn).

The ones with power steering ran a much lower ratio, and when the Power Steering was out, were a real bear to steer, but at least they had a much bigger steering wheel in them to help!

I couldn't find the actual ratio of the Bronco's rack and pinion, But I'd guess it's pretty low numerically, Lower than any off the Scouts I had...

I can't imagine it is even possible to man handle the steering with one hand, while you are using the other hand to hold up a plastic handle without breaking it off.

If what I've read is correct, the ABS system controls the parking brakes, and if you stand on the brake pedal and it hits the floor, It is SUPPOSED to use them to try and slow you down, I haven't found anything that explains exactly how it does this (IE, does it send electricity to the parking brakes when it senses no pressure in the brake lines? Where does it send power from? IE straight from the battery, or from an ignition source?)

I'd really like to find a good technical document about how the entire hydraulic braking and abs work on these things, but I haven't had any luck..

Unfortunately in both the cases under discussion, the driver thought they had no brakes, and so I'm thinking didn't apply maximum pressure to the brake pedal, (The guy who rolled backwards actually said as much) so these cases don't tell us how it works, and I think in a case where someone DID stand on the brake pedal and it worked like I think it would, There wouldn't have been enough drama that they would have posted a thread to begin with...

I'm trying not to say the folks in these two situations did anything wrong, they were definitely in panic situations and don't know how the systems work (Hell, we're ALL still guessing how they work!), But I think if they had just pushed the brake pedal as hard as they could, and held their steering wheels straight, we wouldn't even have had these threads for discussion.

 

[M&A]

Not that I don't believe you, but can you explain this part a little more? How would grass stop you? Are you sure that in full panic mode (which is understandable), and it happening so fast, that you are mistaking the manual braking effort finally working with the grass stopping you? Again, I believe you, just trying to get my head around this. Being in my 50s, I've driven cars where the power brakes and steering failed and it suddenly feels like its "locked up", but having driven manual steering/braking cars in my lifetime I was somewhat prepared for it. I would imagine that younger drivers like my chilren's ages (late 20s - 30s), would absolutely be unprepared for the amount of effort it takes to stop or steer a 5K lb vechicle, especially with the added stress of it occurring right at an intersection.

I will was in MA at noon after a morning of rain. It was a horse fence but didn’t see any.
Was going straight but road slightly bent, I rolled right off road into muddy grass. Cops came, took pics, Ford has all info. Don’t care if you don’t believe me.

 

[M&A]

Now that I've had my coffee, this is sounding more and more like the classic bad ground situation (all vehicles suffer from it from time to time). I wonder if the fine, highly compensated, mechanics at the dealership fiddled with the ground and didn't secure it properly when done.

Ford dealership in MA that has the Bronco has said this exact thing. They got power up and said one of them came loose. They have been in contact with Ford Corp to do whatever they do. I need 3-5 days to hear back because of the holiday.

 

[uncledoodoo]

Don’t care if you don’t believe me.

I actually said the opposite "not that I don't believe you" means I believe you. I just wanted some clarification.

Ford dealership in MA that has the Bronco has said this exact thing. They got power up and said one of them came loose. They have been in contact with Ford Corp to do whatever they do. I need 3-5 days to hear back because of the holiday.

yeah, this was the most likely reason. I've encountered this many times over the years (especially with old jeeps). I do want to know whether you still had brakes at all (just super stiff). That is a big problem.

 

[TailChaser]

Nothing to do with the OP, but others comparing brakes or steering to one designed not to be power is way wrong. Try being pulled home in a truck where you can barely steer/brake on a 20’ chain, and your crazy uncle passes someone in the process . You’ll learn both to stay on the brake a little all the time to keep chain tight and how to thrust your back into the seat and do a leg press to get just a little bit of braking. Steering isn’t any better, a slight angle left/right is about all you can manage and feels like about to rip wheel off. It def could be harder with these little steering wheels on a Bronco even if they work the same.

 

[Bmadda]

Now I'm wondering what kind of failure modes might exist for the electric booster because somebody posted a couple years ago there's not a physical link from the pedal to the master cylinder so it might be worth pulling the fuse to see how hard braking becomes.

@Ducati1098 probably knows better than me how the new system on 2.7 works, but the way electric boosted systems worked back in the late 80's/early90's was there is a conventional style master cylinder which sends pressure to the front brakes only. Electrically generated boost pressure both assists the pressure on the front master cylinder, and is modulated to the rears directly. In the event of electrical failure you would have zero assist and front brakes only...and yes it is SCARY when that happens! They typically use a pressure accumulator to store fluid pressure which, in my experience, would give you maybe 3 normal pedal pumps worth of (semi) normal braking after power is lost, so there is a little warning that something is going wrong. When cars with that problem were towed in years ago it took both my feet to keep from hitting my toolbox just pulling it into the shop at idle speed! Not something I wana experience in traffic!

 

[Ducati1098]

@Ducati1098 probably knows better than me how the new system on 2.7 works, but the way electric boosted systems worked back in the late 80's/early90's was there is a conventional style master cylinder which sends pressure to the front brakes only. Electrically generated boost pressure both assists the pressure on the front master cylinder, and is modulated to the rears directly. In the event of electrical failure you would have zero assist and front brakes only...and yes it is SCARY when that happens! They typically use a pressure accumulator to store fluid pressure which, in my experience, would give you maybe 3 normal pedal pumps worth of (semi) normal braking after power is lost, so there is a little warning that something is going wrong. When cars with that problem were towed in years ago it took both my feet to keep from hitting my toolbox just pulling it into the shop at idle speed! Not something I wana experience in traffic!

It’s still somewhat similar, but they’ve basically removed any type of traditional master cylinder. The HCU controls all aspects of hydraulic actuation using a pump and linear actuator. That’s about the extent of my knowledge though.

As far failure mode operations, I honestly have no idea. I’ll have have to see if I can find some training on the EBB system. There isn’t a whole lot of information available in the workshop manual, probably because any type of failure would just result in EBB replacement.

 

[Los]

The location of the e-brake is in a very awkward location, if you lose all power, then trying to steer and apply the e-brake would be a disaster, I would just slammed both feet on the brake pedal and say a hail Mary.

 

[Los]

I have read the whole blog and we have steered off the op incident into a realm of this car, that car did this, did that.
Glad the op and family are safe, I'm sure Ford will figure out what cause the problem, as they can't ignore it, lots of Broncos out there, I'm one WT owner. And so far close to 15k miles w/o any issues; yes I do take me bronco off road when I have a chance. No I have not modify my bronco

 

[Tex]

Glad you're okay, OP. Sucks about the steering and brake stuff.

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