'22 OBX 4A Binding issues... Need TSB

[crenca]

Yeah, I want Ford's 4A to act more like a permanent AWD when launching in Sport mode... not that every boring Tesla can't beat the Bronco to 60mph.

Well, as was pointed out to me recently you can use the off-road gauge "power distribution", and assuming it is an actual real time gauge (and not a theoretical "graphic" ) you will see that most of the time at sub 30mph and with the front wheels straight (or even moderately turned) the bronco is distributing much torque (50% according to the gauge) to the front axle when in 4A. This correlates to my butt-o-meter is well.

In other words (hinting to correct answers to the quiz) the Bronco is under these circumstances an "AWD" vehicle - one with center differential (in this case a clutch plate design) and two "mechanical" open diffs on the front and rear axles.

Torque steer is a separate issue. I have never driven a powerful awd vehicle - one that regularly puts more than 250 or so ft lbs on the front axle, so I don't know how modern high performance (i.e. high torque) BMW's, Merc's, and electric vehicles handle the phenomena. Any WRX past or present (baring highly tuned ones) does not really qualify because unless I'm wrong they have always relied on either helical LSD center diffs (such as the Torsen/Haldex branded ones) or electronically controlled clutch plate diffs that never put more than 50% of their limited torque to the front axle. In other words, not enough torque for more than a minor amount of 'torque steer'.

Also, whether there is a small lag in an electronically controlled clutch pack center diff or almost zero (> than 1/1000 of a second if memory serves) of a helical center diff, torque steer will still be an issue as it is the amount of torque distributed the front end that is more material.

Ford has a patent on a particular design of front suspension that all but negates torque steer, but then so do many other manufactures:

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/ford-revoknuckle-suspension-and-quaife-lsd-explained-48037.html

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[FleshTuxedo]

Welp, looks like this thread gained traction (see what I did there?)!

 

[Hemisfear]

Straight from the manual Mr. Smartass.

4A provides electronic control four-wheel drive with power delivered to all four wheels, as required, for increased traction. The information display will display 4A when this mode is selected. This mode is appropriate for all on-road driving conditions, such as dry road surfaces, wet pavement, snow, or gravel.


And I'm pretty sure I know more about this system then you considering i educated THREE dealerships worth of ford techs, because they didn't understand how the 4A system worked when I was trying to get my transfer case warrantied. Which they finally replaced under warranty because they had no idea how the system worked until a ford engineer came and showed them. I'm not surprised you're an ford tech on here acting like you know everything. I build 2000hp race cars and design advanced circutry for military applications. Word of advice, stop acting like a know it all because several people in this thread know way more than you do...

This looks the same as what Ducati provided, dumbass!
Where exactly does it say that 4A can be used full time or that the Advanced 4x4 transfer case is a full time?
I never claimed that 4A can not be used on dry surfaces, I'm saying the constant use on dry surfaces, when there is no reason to have it activated, is what causes issues and also never claimed to be a Ford tech, please read before you reply!
I also do not know everything and never claimed to, but I am interested in a "Part Time" system that can be used "Full Time", I've never heard of one and have never heard anyone claim to have one except on this forum...with no evidence, just a somewhat unique interpretation from the hand book.
I've never built a 2000HP racecar, but I did wrench a 7 time champion's racecar!
Bronco Adv. 4x4 Transfer Case Teardown (Video) - Bronco Nation
I have a feeling that the dealer had enough with you and helped just to get rid of you...lol

 

[JawnyBronco]

This looks the same as what Ducati provided, dumbass!
Where exactly does it say that 4A can be used full time or that the Advanced 4x4 transfer case is a full time?
I never claimed that 4A can not be used on dry surfaces, I'm saying the constant use on dry surfaces, when there is no reason to have it activated, is what causes issues and also never claimed to be a Ford tech, please read before you reply!
Bronco Adv. 4x4 Transfer Case Teardown (Video) - Bronco Nation
I have a feeling that the dealer was just fed up with you and helped just to get rid of you...lol

By that logic the Sport mode has no purpose?
SHIT-n-GIT(out of it)

 

[Hemisfear]

In case y’all missed it, this is @twinturbo4vGT’s service ticket stating
By that logic the Sport mode has no purpose?
SHIT-n-GIT(out of it)

Sure it does, a limited and not ALWAYS on purpose! (I can count on one hand how many times I've been in sport mode)

 

[userdude]

Anyway, there was no disrespect. Sorry if you took it that way. I was just quoting what you called yourself as I don't know what dealership role you had. Have a good day.

You ain't got nothing to apologize for...

 

[crenca]

Where exactly does it say that 4A can be used full time or that the Advanced 4x4 transfer case is a full time?

I think this is the crux of your issue - you want Ford to explicitly state that 4A is a "full time" system or an "AWD" system.

Your problem, and the general consumer's problem, is that these aren't actually technical SAE terms, they are marketing terms.

The fact is is the system is architecturally the same as many other all-wheel drive and full time systems.

Putting aside any questions of refinement and the usual Ford quality, I say the burden of proof is on you to prove that this system is somehow hamstrung, not supposed to be a full-time system...

 

[userdude]

Putting aside any questions of refinement and the usual Ford quality, I say the burden of proof is on you to prove that this system is somehow hamstrung, not supposed to be a full-time system...

+1

If it were such a problem, where's all the evidence outside screeching about it on a forum thread?

 

[Hemisfear]

I didn't realize Ford's engineering aspects were different from what they teach and inform their factory trained technicians. Afterall, they're the ones that need to know how things are designed to work to be repaired and diagnosed correctly. Seems very odd they would do that

Anyway, there was no disrespect. Sorry if you took it that way. I was just quoting what you called yourself as I don't know what dealership role you had. Have a good day.

Just to be clear Ducati...
I have no beef with you or anyone on the forum, I just don't think it's good practice to advise unless we know for sure and I haven't seen anything from anyone including Ford, which suggests that you should or can just leave the transfer case in 4A all the time and don't know why anyone would?
Part Time is Part Time...even Jeep has issues with their Full Time system in the 392.

 

[Hemisfear]

I think this is the crux of your issue - you want Ford to explicitly state that 4A is a "full time" system or an "AWD" system.

Your problem, and the general consumer's problem, is that these aren't actually technical SAE terms, they are marketing terms.

The fact is is the system is architecturally the same as many other all-wheel drive and full time systems.

Putting aside any questions of refinement and the usual Ford quality, I say the burden of proof is on you to prove that this system is somehow hamstrung, not supposed to be a full-time system...

YES, exactly...if it was a Full Time system, it would be advertised as such!
" the Ford Bronco 4x4 with part-time selectable engagement system uses a 2-speed electronic shift-on-the-fly (ESOF) transfer case " from FORD!!!

 

[Hemisfear]

+1

If it were such a problem, where's all the evidence outside screeching about it on a forum thread?

This issue is not just on this forum, but this forum appears to exacerbate the situation.

 

[Ducati1098]

Just to be clear Ducati...
I have no beef with you or anyone on the forum, I just don't think it's good practice to advise unless we know for sure and I haven't seen anything from anyone including Ford, which suggests that you should or can just leave the transfer case in 4A all the time and don't know why anyone would?
Part Time is Part Time...even Jeep has issues with their Full Time system in the 392.

I have no beef either. I’m not the one that designed it, and I certainly don’t know everything.

But I do know without a doubt in my mind, that if it was not acceptable to leave it in 4A all the time.. the owners manual, workshop manual, every little piece of information Ford released about the Broncos 4WD system would have warnings on top of warnings saying it is not acceptable and could cause damage.

Until Ford states somewhere that driving around in 4A constantly will cause harm to the transfer case or clutch (which they never will), there’s no reason or proof to believe otherwise.

The clutch in the transfer case is really no different than a clutch in an automatic transmission or manual transmission. It was built to handle being used and will wear just like any other wearable item on the vehicle.

 

[Hemisfear]

I have no beef either. I’m not the one that designed it, and I certainly don’t know everything.

But I do know without a doubt in my mind, that if it was not acceptable to leave it in 4A all the time.. the owners manual, workshop manual, every little piece of information for released about the Broncos 4WD system would have warnings on top of warnings saying it is not acceptable and could cause damage.

Until Ford states somewhere that driving around in 4A constantly will cause harm to the transfer case or clutch (which they never will), there’s no reason or proof to believe otherwise.

The clutch in the transfer case is really no different than a clutch in an automatic transmission or manual transmission. It was built to handle being used and will wear just like any other wearable item on the vehicle.

Gotcha!
How about I will use my 4A when needed and you can use 4A all the time, no one has to know! lol

 

[Ducati1098]

Gotcha!
How about I will use my 4A when needed and you can use 4A all the time, no one has to know! lol

Fair enough

 

[crenca]

" the Ford Bronco 4x4 with part-time selectable engagement system uses a 2-speed electronic shift-on-the-fly (ESOF) transfer case " from FORD

Except the above is absolutely true, and has nothing to do with whether 4A is intended to be a full-time system or not, because the above does not refer to the 4A system.

Instead, it refers to the the functionality of the transfer case that is used in 4H and 4L selections. This is when the transfer case is locked, analogous to when your rear or front differentials are locked - like a spool - effectively locking the half shafts together. The transfer case does the same thing, locking the rear drive shaft and the front drive shaft together, so they can't differentiate, that is spin at different speeds. This is usually but not necessarily what the marketers call a " Part-Time system", also known as a "4x4" system.

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