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BRONCO SEVERE DUTY STEERING UPGRADE KIT now available from Ford Performance Parts!
- Thread starter DJunior.300
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Sorry I meant to ask has a Hoss 3.0 been installed on a 4D Non SAS "Badlands" yet? I accidently left out the Badlands.
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Yes is still the answer, I put one in my non-sas Badlands in Oct 23... the concerns about steering angle go out the door anyway as soon as you put a lift on or change wheel offset, which also change steering angle. Ford has a lot more concern about it then we do, because they are the OEM.
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Have you sold your Mongoose Plus? I might be interested if the price is right.Going to cover this in my video, but most J2534 adapters should—in theory—work just fine for FDRS.
VXDiag seems to be an extremely popular option (because it’s cheap), but I’ve personally bricked two modules with two different VXDiag adapters before so they’ve been permanently retired to the garbage can. I think that’s the adapter @mpeugeot uses though, and he’s obviously programmed multiple racks with it… so… I dunno… maybe I was using them wrong somehow?
After the VXDiag nonsense I switched to the Mongoose Plus, and it’s what I’ve used up until this past year. It’s been fine, no issues, no complaints, would buy again. This past year with the YouTube channel and all of the programming I’ve been doing on so many different vehicles I decided to upgrade Bosch MasterTech II.
(Btw, once I finish shooting my video with the Mongoose Plus I’ll probably sell it here on B6G, if anyone is interested. Probably will post it within the next two weeks.)
Thanks
I don't know why I continue to have good luck with mine... It must have been made on a Thursday.Going to cover this in my video, but most J2534 adapters should—in theory—work just fine for FDRS.
VXDiag seems to be an extremely popular option (because it’s cheap), but I’ve personally bricked two modules with two different VXDiag adapters before so they’ve been permanently retired to the garbage can. I think that’s the adapter @mpeugeot uses though, and he’s obviously programmed multiple racks with it… so… I dunno… maybe I was using them wrong somehow?
After the VXDiag nonsense I switched to the Mongoose Plus, and it’s what I’ve used up until this past year. It’s been fine, no issues, no complaints, would buy again. This past year with the YouTube channel and all of the programming I’ve been doing on so many different vehicles I decided to upgrade Bosch MasterTech II.
(Btw, once I finish shooting my video with the Mongoose Plus I’ll probably sell it here on B6G, if anyone is interested. Probably will post it within the next two weeks.)
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Came here looking for this answer. Good to know, thanks!
Did you actually have to adjust anything else after the install? Or just a straight swap and flash?
Agreed. Ford may simply have some external constraints wrt rack programming.
Based on kinematics, the front wheels are forced to rotate about the king pin axis. Axis defined by UCA and LCA wheel knuckle attachment points. The intersection of the king pin axis with the road surface plane dictates the point the front wheels are trying to pivot about when engaging the steering rack. The friction force acting at the center of pressure of the tire/road contact patch will resist the wheel rotation. This distance, scrub radius, can generate a force couple. No resistance as scrub radius goes to zero.
lifting, wheel offset, and tire diameter all affect scrub radius. A non SAS becomes a SAS (wrt scrub radius) if you apply a 1.1” lift, +35 mm offset wheels, and 34.4” diameter tires. (Not sure about exact numbers here but you get the point).
foks add zero or even negative offset rims with 35s and don’t consider the effects of increased scrub radius. The difference between SAS and non SAS scrub radius is likely small. Especially when compared with the lift/wheel/tire combinations folks are introducing. Can’t imagine this is much of a concern.
Not sure about what is exactly meant by steering angle. I am just learning the nuances of automotive engineering and terminology. Please add context if available.
The linear motion of the steering rack, via the tie rod ends, is translated into rotational motion of the wheel. Since the wheel is constrained by kinematics to rotate about the king pin axis, the ratio of linear motion to wheel rotation is dictated by the perpendicular distance of the tie rod end to the king pin axis.
I think ride height lift is the only variable that controls king pin axis orientation. Ground pivot point and scrub radius are also affected by wheel/tire geometry but axis orientation is not. When lifted the king pin axis can be corrected back to oem via an alignment and/or new UCA/knuckle attachment point. The tie rod end location remains fixed.
If so, then the ratio of linear to rotational motion remains constant between SAS and non SAS. So hoss 3.0 compared with 1.0/2.0 racks should have same programming wrt to this ratio (if that is what is meant by steering angle???).
Am I missing something?
I don't think you are missing anything. I am the one most likely missing something. I believe a gentleman had already stated the steering angle issue as a constraint in a previous post. I had just happen to be speaking to a Ford Performance engineer and I had asked why the difference in a NON SAS Badlands. He stated (not explained) that there was a steering angle difference with that particular model configuration. He also stated as previously reported that a AutoCal was going to be released for that particular model. That is what prompted me to ask, I wonder why and ask the group here if anyone has added a Hoss 3.0 to a NON SAS Badlands. It appears that has taken place and without issue. So for me, I just need to program mine and get it installed. I see no reason to wait and buy an AutoCal to achieve the same outcome. Please correct me if I am mistaken. Thank You
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I don't think you're missing anything.... the ONLY reason Ford is treating the Badlands non-sas differently is that the ProCal has to be able to put all the settings in the TCS and ABS related settings based on the original settings, which is a different set of values for a Non SAS Bronco Badlands.
The fact that I tricked FDRS into programming the rack by telling it I had a Wildtrak with Hoss 3.0 probably means my parameters are all wrong for a Badlands Non-SAS, But I also had 37"tires, 2.5" of Lift and -6 offeset rims before I put the 3.0 rack in.. So didn't really give a damn about how accurate those settings were, "works safely" was good enough for me
.Ford on the other hand, has considerable liability, and if they are selling a plug and play upgrade like a steering rack, they better make absolutely sure that all the safety systems fall within the original specification they created. I'm not gonna blame Ford for not offering the FPP Rack for the Non-SAS BL right away, and honestly, wouldn't blame them if they never offered it...
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I did a swap and Flash, basically. Had to do some a relearns on modules, that you've probably seen mentioned in this and other threads, but nothing unexpected. I didn't change any settings from what I started with.Came here looking for this answer. Good to know, thanks!
Did you actually have to adjust anything else after the install? Or just a straight swap and flash?
yeah I feel for the Ford engineers. It is easy to trash talk them but I am sure they are up against a crap ton of external safety constraints.I don't think you're missing anything.... the ONLY reason Ford is treating the Badlands non-sas differently is that the ProCal has to be able to put all the settings in the TCS and ABS related settings based on the original settings, which is a different set of values for a Non SAS Bronco Badlands.
The fact that I tricked FDRS into programming the rack by telling it I had a Wildtrak with Hoss 3.0 probably means my parameters are all wrong for a Badlands Non-SAS, But I also had 37"tires, 2.5" of Lift and -6 offeset rims before I put the 3.0 rack in.. So didn't really give a damn about how accurate those settings were, "works safely" was good enough for me
Ford on the other hand, has considerable liability, and if they are selling a plug and play upgrade like a steering rack, they better make absolutely sure that all the safety systems fall within the original specification they created. I'm not gonna blame Ford for not offering the FPP Rack for the Non-SAS BL right away, and honestly, wouldn't blame them if they never offered it...
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Well my rack program and install got cancelled so I am trying get procal working for tune &tire size before rack install with a buddy next week…getting “unsupported vehicle“ error…need to call ford but too pissed to talk to them right now…ford cannot even make there there own parts work out of the box!!!
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