How can water enter the engine?

[broncabilly]

I don't get why people are still obsessed about water getting into the intake. Maybe they didn't read all the pages?

Side note:
I wonder what that square cutout is on the left side of the tube? From the pic it almost looks like felt.

Yeah I didn't notice the felt/foam piece until I looked at the picture, not sure. I 'm also not sure about the obsession with the water in the intake. And those that are sure that the water went in the intake have no answer to how it came in, the engine ran fine, and it made it's way to the crankcase.

Anyway I think maybe this thread should die off. I've received a couple of good suggestions about pressure or smoke testing and will pursue those. I doubt I'll get anywhere and I'm betting either I will cover it or my insurance will come through.

Aside from being angry about the situation it's worse how it's being handled. Dealer says it's Ford's decision, corporate says it's the dealer's decision, the dealer says if it was up to them they'd cover it etc. etc. And on top of that if it leaves the dealer to get another opinion at a different Ford dealer, the powertrain warranty will be cancelled. It's really a shit show.

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[Derbystud]

Most seals are made for one direction sealing. It keeps the oil from going out not from things coming in. If the engine was in the water and still running it probably pulled the water through the front crank seal. People backing boats into the lake get water into the rear differential through the same one way seals. And they aren't rotating at engine speeds.

 

[OX1]

Yeah I didn't notice the felt/foam piece until I looked at the picture, not sure. I 'm also not sure about the obsession with the water in the intake. And those that are sure that the water went in the intake have no answer to how it came in, the engine ran fine, and it made it's way to the crankcase.

Anyway I think maybe this thread should die off. I've received a couple of good suggestions about pressure or smoke testing and will pursue those. I doubt I'll get anywhere and I'm betting either I will cover it or my insurance will come through.

Aside from being angry about the situation it's worse how it's being handled. Dealer says it's Ford's decision, corporate says it's the dealer's decision, the dealer says if it was up to them they'd cover it etc. etc. And on top of that if it leaves the dealer to get another opinion at a different Ford dealer, the powertrain warranty will be cancelled. It's really a shit show.

Since I spent over 20 years mudding in the Jersey Pines, back in the day, have a pretty good idea of how/why water intrusion happens. As mentioned in the post after this one. Sometimes you can get oil through a wheel seal and/or rear main/front crank seal. But that is usually older seals, and/or one's that were sitting underwater for extended periods.

The intake tube after air cleaner would also be murky if water got in there. An air filter does not take murky water and clean it enough to make that, after filter intake tube, THAT clean. That and you said filter was dry. Wet air filters quickly suck in on themselves from engine vac. Also, the fact that entire inside of air box is not covered with murky water, leads me to believe very little even got inside air box. You don't get the bottom of an airbox with some spots clean, and some spots with heavier "soiling", when a good amount of murky water gets in. The entire bottom of it at least would have indication of the murky water.

All that said, if you first got the water in going into a crystal clear mud hole that was not churned up in any way, you may have had some crystal clear water get in without the contaminants. But if you were still running and engine had the same amount of power after that, it's more like a bit of water injection, which wouldn't hurt anything. You'd need a huge amount of water to get enough past rings and contaminate oil, IF that is how it got through. Enough to hydro-lock engine most likely.

 

[RimrockPaul]

Besides the air intake, how can water enter the engine? I got stuck in water, level was a little above the bumper, below the headlights. (approximately 8 or 9" below air intake). Back wheels were never in the water. But there WAS water in the engine. The dealership said that the air filter was "caked with mud" and then sent me this picture:

Splattered a little from radiator fan with dirty water? Sure. Caked with mud? Hardly. I did check the filter and filter box when this happened and the filter was completely dry.

I contend that water entered the crankcase somewhere. Faulty PCV valve seal? Not sure, that's why I'm asking here. I posted a couple weeks ago and mostly got replies telling me how stupid I am. And that's fine it just doesn't help me much. I'm just asking for opinions on entry points for water and mud. Because now I have a seized engine and Ford says it came in the intake and won't cover it. But it didn't and I'm going to be out $10,000. So please help if you can.
Thanks

Sorry about the water problem. Seems like of 6g owners have alternator and other issues after driving through water obstacles.
I don't believe that Ford engineered our Broncos for deep water use. Unless I had an emergency scenario I will keep mine on dry land.
Someday the after market guys will make alternator relocation kits etc to work in amphibious situations.
Have fun.
Paul in dry Arizona

 

[omi205]

So your engine ran perfect that entire time all while your oil was milk due to the stream you got in the intake?

No. I didn't get any water in that would cause real damage. I think what happened was I had some light splashing into the intake but not a significant amount. Enough to trip the check engine light over night. But then cleared on its own the next day. Never had any real issues (engine stalling or odd looking oil).

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

The tailpipe was never in the water. And it never stalled. I left it running for a minute or two and decided maybe it's better to shut it off. But it sat there idling with no hesitation whatsoever. I started it back up to help with the tow and same thing, ran fine. After pulling it out, I got a charging system warning. At first it ran ok then stuttered a little bit, that's when I checked the dipstick and yeah there was water in the oil. Immediately went for filter and oil and changed it. But I didn't run it after that, towed to a indy service station who changed oil, flushed it, and changed it again. Dealer did the TSB on the alternator and let it go back to the indy. It started running bad after it warmed up and he checked oil, found metal sheen in it, changed oil again and it seized up.

I do have pictures showing the water level below the headlights, a couple inches over the bumper. I need to measure another sasquatch to see if that's less than 33.5".
Thanks for your time and input.

OP, I’m late to this discussion here, but something isn’t adding up. No, you have no obligation to tell us the entire story; we’re just voyeurs to your situation, but with that much water in the air box, and muddy water at that, something tells me that you were going YouTuber fast through that water, which is a no no, no matter how many videos are posted with guys doing it.

Also, not sure when you took the pic, but your air filter isn’t connected all the way on and I can’t help but wonder how it got that way? From factory install, it’s jammed in there pretty good. I have a K&N replacement and have honestly checked it once to ensure I stuck it on good and tight. Maybe yours was just placed that way after the episode and having it removed to look at it.

You definitely seem to have gotten water in through the air intake and water got above the grill maybe. That oil change mess the tech found was what I’d think should have been a stopping point, but hindsight is a tricky beast.

I’d file an insurance claim, or at least try, but I wouldn’t expect a manufacturer to cover water in an engine damage. If there was a seal or something else compromised, you’d have an oil leak, right? Well, where is that evidence? Sure that‘s what the dealership looked for and didn’t find, so only way in is the intake and was enough to seize the engine, so it was a lot o little water.

Sorry man, but it’s a cautionary tale for everyone else reading.

 

[broncabilly]

OP, I’m late to this discussion here, but something isn’t adding up. No, you have no obligation to tell us the entire story; we’re just voyeurs to your situation, but with that much water in the air box, and muddy water at that, something tells me that you were going YouTuber fast through that water, which is a no no, no matter how many videos are posted with guys doing it.

Also, not sure when you took the pic, but your air filter isn’t connected all the way on and I can’t help but wonder how it got that way? From factory install, it’s jammed in there pretty good. I have a K&N replacement and have honestly checked it once to ensure I stuck it on good and tight. Maybe yours was just placed that way after the episode and having it removed to look at it.

You definitely seem to have gotten water in through the air intake and water got above the grill maybe. That oil change mess the tech found was what I’d think should have been a stopping point, but hindsight is a tricky beast.

I’d file an insurance claim, or at least try, but I wouldn’t expect a manufacturer to cover water in an engine damage. If there was a seal or something else compromised, you’d have an oil leak, right? Well, where is that evidence? Sure that‘s what the dealership looked for and didn’t find, so only way in is the intake and was enough to seize the engine, so it was a lot o little water.

Sorry man, but it’s a cautionary tale for everyone else reading.

Quite an imagination! But still, why would you think I even own a Bronco? That’s pretty naive of you
Thanks for your helpful input.

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

Quite an imagination! But still, why would you think I even own a Bronco? That’s pretty naive of you
Thanks for your helpful input.

Call it imaginary or not, your story has holes all through it and doesn’t match the evidence, so sounds like the imagination is the story you’ve decided to tell here on the interwebs.

Every commenter has speculated what could be, but most honestly isn’t plausible.

End of the day, you never even explained why you sat in a mud hole for any amount of time, which was the first flag, then took mitigating steps such as the flush of some kind which could have also been an entry point of water, or dried parts of lube which resulted in the shavings or could have and the eventual lock.

Then you come on here and try to convince all of us that somehow this was Ford’s fault and their problem to fix.

The hubris of this thread has been entertaining, but seems the only naive person here is you.

Pay your $10K at the counter and have a nice day.

 

[vicorjh]

YouTuber fast through that water

There were photos, posts, et al in this other thread ... which, as it appears, were later edited away.

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/how-tough-is-this-thing.79465/

Sorry OP for your troubles but it does seem like there is an attempt at narrative building going on here.

 

[broncabilly]

There were photos, posts, et al in this other thread ... which, as it appears, were later edited away.

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/how-tough-is-this-thing.79465/

Sorry OP for your troubles but it does seem like there is an attempt at narrative building going on here.

What is the narrative I’m building? I drove my front tires into a muddy mess, dropped to the frame, water line between the bumper and the headlight. Got winched out. Completely clean inlet tube past the air filter. Truck always ran fine, until a slight miss at idle. Checked and found the milkshake-y oil and drained it and had it towed. So instead of telling me I’m making the story up tell me how a truck runs fine but gets water in the oil. Forget it, you can’t. I’ve gotten a few helpful ideas of how to diagnose and am going to pursue those. So in that respect it has been useful.

And I thank those who had considerate and thoughtful posts to try to help out.

 

[broncabilly]

Here is a pic of the waterline. Notice how completely muddy and sloppy it is above that. I really must have hit it hard!

 

[broncabilly]

Now notice the angle of the waterline. Draw a line from that through the tire to the rock rail I was sitting on. Will give you an idea of the depth of the water. I’ve wanted to find another bronco to be estimate the line but what, to the top of the rim maybe?

 

[vicorjh]

Here is a pic of the waterline. Notice how completely muddy and sloppy it is above that. I really must have hit it hard!

mmmm.

"There is probably a reason there are no tire tracks leading up to that puddle. These trucks are only as tough as you treat them. Everything can break if you go in over your head. The good thing is you got out and only need and oil change and an alternator. "

" It's not a U-boat, Captain."

" from the pic it looks like he is still above the intake trap door"

" Was the firstpost edited?"

" Yes. And it looks like other posts were deleted as well. "


You removed the pictures/video/et al and then started a new thread on the topic. Whether you are actually in the right or not, it is suspect. Sorry that you don't like it, it is how it reads.

 

[broncabilly]

Apparently you didn’t see the picture of the airbox with a few splatters of water in it and the clean filter. Look at that water and tell me it wouldn’t leave an actual water line in the air box? Or on the filter. Or the air intake tube that didn’t have one sign of water entry. But I’m wasting my time. Think what you want to think. As I’ve said, others have been helpful and I’m thankful for that.

 

[vicorjh]

But I’m wasting my time.

Best of luck to you.

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