X-plan Petition on Change.org

[BuckinT29]

At least offer it for the early reservation holders

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[Rydfree]

Uh, government help/loan might not be a bailout in your eyes, but in mine it most certainly is using public monies to operate a business or keep it afloat. Given money? maybe not, but help staying afloat? Most definitely.

Skipped school during economics class apparently . LOL .

Unemployment benefits are a bailout . You aren't gonna pay it back . They will still charge you tax on it though but that's another discussion

A HUD loan is assistance but you will pay it back with interest .

What Ford did could be considered assistance but it could have been from any traditional bank , it was just the government (Bank) . It was also to help improve the plants to meet standards the EPA (government) have been imposing on auto manufactors . So there's that . They are paying it back .

To be totally honest , one has to realize that if it were not for the government Bailout of GM there would be only one of the original big three left . Ford . GM would be gone and Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep is basically already gone .

https://www.motortrend.com/news/who-owns-chrysler/

 

[DHC]

Looking at Ford stock price and knowing the company needs a winner with the Bronco I can't image why they would discount a popular product that is already basically sold out. Especially when we are pre-ordering it. If I was selling hot cakes and I had a line out the door I would not discount them and start making less money. It would be a poor business decision. haha... just my thoughts!

Maybe I’m missing something, but doesn’t Ford get their money for each Bronco from the dealers, regardless of x-plan savings to the ultimate consumer?

I’m thinking this change is from the dealers pressing FoMoCo to give them an “out” and charge MSRP, ADM, and exorbitant junk/doc fees.

 

[Calicorks]

I signed this, thanks for sharing.
Is it just me, or is Ford REALLY messing up already??

Xplan, no Xplan, reservation, now ppl can skip the line (shady dealerships) and not have a reservation. FORD cut the C*** AND BUILD AS MANY AS YOU CAN!

I understand Covid changed everything for them. With that said, they should have a sit down with everyone involved on the Bronco team to be on the same page. All this is going to do is drive people away unless we get real Solid answers.

Common FORD, don’t mess this up!!

 

[Calicorks]

Looking at Ford stock price and knowing the company needs a winner with the Bronco I can't image why they would discount a popular product that is already basically sold out. Especially when we are pre-ordering it. If I was selling hot cakes and I had a line out the door I would not discount them and start making less money. It would be a poor business decision. haha... just my thoughts!

But I’m sure you wouldn’t tell your customers they get a discount, they wait in line for hours, only to find out no discount. This is the real issue is the miscommunication from FORD.

 

[EvlNvrDys]

Did anyone check to see if Mike Levine signed it? I tweeted him the other day ?

 

[Bronco4lyfe85]

524?? Come on people that is pathetic.

 

[dingle87]

As mentioned in an earlier post... there are 2 different things going here... The TARP money back in 2008 to keep GM and Chrysler from going belly up... Ford did not take any of that money from the US government... they mortgaged all assets and got the money to fund from private sources.

The loan you are referring to was a loan to update/improve plants to make them greener and more modern... and yes I know that loan is still outstanding. Which the media makes it sound worse than it is... it is not like it is delinquent, Ford is still paying it back with interest according to the terms of the loan.

That loan I don't see as a bailout, but as a strategic opportunity to improve facilities without having pay all cash up front at hopefully lower terms than going to bank.

This is no different than any of us shopping our financing for our new Broncos. Why got to Bank A with a 8% rate when I can go to bank B with a 4% rate?

So you don't mind government participating in private sector business dealings is what you're saying. It's fine to have that viewpoint, I'm just clarifying.

Government isn't a bank, so it isn't the same. Government and Banks have 2 entirely different sets of objectives. Banks actually make revenue. Kinda like the whole debate going on in other threads about "buyers wanting to get something for nothing" / "Ford needs to make a profit" type arguments. So, it's ok for Ford to get a discount, but their customers be damned.

Yes, I understand everything about the situation. I never once said they were delinquent. I just question the whole practice of keeping failing businesses afloat. Seems to go against the whole free market we hear so much about throughout our lives.

 

[Silvercloud]

But I’m sure you wouldn’t tell your customers they get a discount, they wait in line for hours, only to find out no discount. This is the real issue is the miscommunication from FORD.

I agree. I didn't realize they had stated that until it was pointed out to me. They should stand behind their word.

 

[dingle87]

Skipped school during economics class apparently . LOL .

Unemployment benefits are a bailout . You aren't gonna pay it back . They will still charge you tax on it though but that's another discussion

A HUD loan is assistance but you will pay it back with interest .

What Ford did could be considered assistance but it could have been from any traditional bank , it was just the government (Bank) . It was also to help improve the plants to meet standards the EPA (government) have been imposing on auto manufactors . So there's that . They are paying it back .

To be totally honest , one has to realize that if it were not for the government Bailout of GM there would be only one of the original big three left . Ford . GM would be gone and Chrysler/Dodge/Jeep is basically already gone .

https://www.motortrend.com/news/who-owns-chrysler/

Free Market would fill in the gaps by failed businesses or at least that's what I was taught throughout my life. When they aren't allowed to fail, maybe that support doesn't provide the gap in a market for a better company to fill the needs of the consumer more efficiently.

 

[RednWhite89]

Broke thru the 500 mark, on to 1000! Share the link in other posts!

 

[dwfern]

So you don't mind government participating in private sector business dealings is what you're saying. It's fine to have that viewpoint, I'm just clarifying.

Government isn't a bank, so it isn't the same. Government and Banks have 2 entirely different sets of objectives. Banks actually make revenue. Kinda like the whole debate going on in other threads about "buyers wanting to get something for nothing" / "Ford needs to make a profit" type arguments. So, it's ok for Ford to get a discount, but their customers be damned.

Yes, I understand everything about the situation. I never once said they were delinquent. I just question the whole practice of keeping failing businesses afloat. Seems to go against the whole free market we hear so much about throughout our lives.

My last comment on this as I will agree that we are interpreting the loan in two completely different ways.

The loan to upgrade facilities was not a bailout for a failing Company. Ford would not have went bankrupt and out of business if they did not take that loan. As another poster mentioned, the loan was used to update facilities to meet standards set by government... so add that wrinkle into your interpretation.

End of the day I see it like this... in simple man terms... Ford had to meet some new standards that would cost them X amount of dollars in infrastructure costs... they had a choice of spending money out of their cash on hand or finance it (no different than us buying a Bronco)…. they decided to finance it... so now how/where to finance? Well could go conventional route... or take this offer from the government... which terms are better for the bottom line of Ford? I am guessing the government offer. Do I blame Ford for taking the money? No. Do I feel they are now in the government's pocket? No. Do I feel the government forced Ford to upgrade facilities as a result of taking the loan? No, the government would have required forced Ford and others to make the improvements regardless if they took the money.

End of the day if anyone thinks government should not help or fund private business... well that ain't happening in this country any time soon. There are many many ways the US government subsidizes various businesses, the only ones that seem to get press are the large industries that directly or indirectly employ very large portions of Americans. And we are so far down the capitalistim rabbit hole, that if we didn't have all the various government subsidies, tax breaks, etc... a large portion of small, medium and large businesses would fail and the US economy would be in complete shambles.

Bye for now (on this topic at least )… ack ack.

 

[dingle87]

My last comment on this as I will agree that we are interpreting the loan in two completely different ways.

The loan to upgrade facilities was not a bailout for a failing Company. Ford would not have went bankrupt and out of business if they did not take that loan. As another poster mentioned, the loan was used to update facilities to meet standards set by government... so add that wrinkle into your interpretation.

End of the day I see it like this... in simple man terms... Ford had to meet some new standards that would cost them X amount of dollars in infrastructure costs... they had a choice of spending money out of their cash on hand or finance it (no different than us buying a Bronco)…. they decided to finance it... so now how/where to finance? Well could go conventional route... or take this offer from the government... which terms are better for the bottom line of Ford? I am guessing the government offer. Do I blame Ford for taking the money? No. Do I feel they are now in the government's pocket? No. Do I feel the government forced Ford to upgrade facilities as a result of taking the loan? No, the government would have required forced Ford and others to make the improvements regardless if they took the money.

End of the day if anyone thinks government should not help or fund private business... well that ain't happening in this country any time soon. There are many many ways the US government subsidizes various businesses, the only ones that seem to get press are the large industries that directly or indirectly employ very large portions of Americans. And we are so far down the capitalistim rabbit hole, that if we didn't have all the various government subsidies, tax breaks, etc... a large portion of small, medium and large businesses would fail and the US economy would be in complete shambles.

Bye for now (on this topic at least )… ack ack.

100% agree. We as a nation are so far removed from the free market / true capitalism that it makes zero sense to expect anything else. It's interesting to think about how this nation would look if government never stepped in and started subsidizing industries, offering tax breaks/incentives, etc. If it truly remained a free market. It's interesting to think about, but very difficult to really wrap your mind around at times too, since so much in our nation is impacted by government.

I'm not dense. I simply like to look from different perspectives at times and think about the current situation from a different angle. Sorry to bring either of you 2 down (@Rydfree) the last 24 hours. I don't hold it against Ford at all. I simply realize business is business. In the end, if party A is ok accepting something at a discount, then don't expect party B to pay full boat either.

 

[Shotsy]

?Much like Thomas, this thread went off the rails...

 

[Badplaid72]

I can afford my bronco without X plan. As I’m sure all of us here can.

It’s the fact FORD HAS GONE BACK ON WHAT THEY TOLD US!

Don’t get me started on them losing money. I don’t want to hear it. I own a business, it’s small, but if I treated my customers, my most loyal customers, this way I would fail.

This is really a matter of “to big to fail” mentality. The suits know they don’t need their hardcore fans. They will sell.

They set the rules. We played by them. They changed the rules.

I am considering backing out because too many people in the world treat others this way. And when I have a chance to say no. I do.

if you disagree with me, fine. All I want to do is hit the trails in the best rig possible and this is a lot of games for this time in my life.

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