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vrtical

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Hmmmm...... I think Doug secretly wishes he had a Maverick..... 🤠
This Doug yes. Waiting for FP to release the 300T package then we are ordering one.
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Wolfgang VTS

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I’ve been seeing more, especially Base models!
Personally, I love my Base. Do the other trims have additional options that I'd like to have, of course they do. But for the additional cost of said options, that I probably wouldn't use anyway, the price point of the Base just made sense. The only thing that my Base doesn't have that I really wish it did is fog lights.
 

DALOLA

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This Doug yes. Waiting for FP to release the 300T package then we are ordering one.
Until then, Livernois is your friend.... 😉
 

totaljustice

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I think that people originally bought the EV because they assumed it was going to cost next to nothing to operate but here where I live at least, the power company spent millions putting smart meters on houses across the entire province. These meters can tell somehow, the difference between using regular power to run your house and charging your EV. So accordingly, they charge a higher rate for the privilege of charging your EV. Because of this I believe EV owners save nothing. Not to mention the thought of paywalled subscription services like having A/C on the horizon from Tesla.
 

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DALOLA

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I think that people originally bought the EV because they assumed it was going to cost next to nothing to operate but here where I live at least, the power company spent millions putting smart meters on houses across the entire province. These meters can tell somehow, the difference between using regular power to run your house and charging your EV. So accordingly, they charge a higher rate for the privilege of charging your EV. Because of this I believe EV owners save nothing. Not to mention the thought of paywalled subscription services like having A/C on the horizon from Tesla.
Anyone who "assumes" anything about a purchase, that's on them. There are plenty of advantages to a BEV, but you'd better understand your situation, do your homework, and don't assume. 😉
 

totaljustice

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Anyone who "assumes" anything about a purchase, that's on them. There are plenty of advantages to a BEV, but you'd better understand your situation, do your homework, and don't assume. 😉
That's why I never even considered them because I knew that governments, being what they are, would never allow people to get ahead without some form of Bullshit, smoke and mirrors tax. At least in Canada anyway.
 

voxel

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Oof that F series sales decline. Ford’s bread and butter because they get crushed by competition everywhere else except the Maverick. The stock will take a beating this year.

It didn’t help the Mach-e had a national stop sale but EV sales are tiny for Ford.
 

archerscreek

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Oof that F series sales decline. Ford’s bread and butter because they get crushed by competition everywhere else except the Maverick. The stock will take a beating this year.

It didn’t help the Mach-e had a national stop sale but EV sales are tiny for Ford.
I tried to buy a new 2025 F150 XLT and was told that Ford put a Stop-Sale on it and they didn’t know when there would be replacement parts. Sound familiar? I talked to a second dealer and was told the same thing. Apparently there is something wrong with the front axles on about 70,000 2025 F150 trucks. When I looked for information online I also found reports of Ford putting a Stop-Sale on F150 trucks last summer because displays would blank out and people couldn’t tell how fast they were going. And of course, there was the Stop-Sale on some Broncos last year. Things really are getting ridiculous at the Blue Oval.
 

tourproto

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Can't believe the Bronco is 2x the sales volume of the Expedition! I would have thought it would be the other way around.

As for the EVs, multiple things can be true at the same time. There are people that want them, and without incentives people on the fence take a pass. Range anxiety and EASE OF REFUELABILITY are real issues (myself included). People think of worst case scenarios (it is how we survived as a species when there were lots of things out there that could kill/eat us), and giving a car a 500 mile range BUT NOT having a convenient charging infrastructure is a deal-breaker for many.

Even though 99% of people will never drive beyond the max range of an EV 360 days out of 365, the EV world can't convince buyers that this is a non-issue, it becomes too emotional.

If I knew that I could "gas up" my EV in 5 minutes at practically any street corner in the US, I would have an EV and I would gladly pay more than an ICE vehicle for it, but that vehicle and infrastructure doesn't exist and WILL NEVER exist for large parts of the US (pretty much anything inside of the 2 coasts) for at least the next 2-3 decades, maybe forever (given the low population densities and the size of states west of the Mississippi).
 

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DALOLA

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As for the EVs, multiple things can be true at the same time. There are people that want them, and without incentives people on the fence take a pass. Range anxiety and EASE OF REFUELABILITY are real issues (myself included). People think of worst case scenarios (it is how we survived as a species when there were lots of things out there that could kill/eat us), and giving a car a 500 mile range BUT NOT having a convenient charging infrastructure is a deal-breaker for many.

Even though 99% of people will never drive beyond the max range of an EV 360 days out of 365, the EV world can't convince buyers that this is a non-issue, it becomes too emotional.

If I knew that I could "gas up" my EV in 5 minutes at practically any street corner in the US, I would have an EV and I would gladly pay more than an ICE vehicle for it, but that vehicle and infrastructure doesn't exist and WILL NEVER exist for large parts of the US (pretty much anything inside of the 2 coasts) for at least the next 2-3 decades, maybe forever (given the low population densities and the size of states west of the Mississippi).
Valid points. At current pace, it will be a LONG time before there is voluntary wide-spread EV adoption. I do believe it's coming, but it's WAY out there.

Public charging is the Wild West. The "master plan" has been botched so badly it is pathetic. Compared to ICE refueling, for most of the country, BEV public refueling is: Less convenient, takes longer, More complex, Often more expensive than gas, More difficult to find. Who would sign up for that?

I would have never bought our MachE if we had to public charge. We haven't public charged once.

If you have decent utility rates, you can charge at home, and you generally daily drive well under your EV range, THEN they make a lot of sense.

Until public charging is at least almost equal to ICE, it will remain a tough sell for the masses.
 

dougcjohn

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Oof that F series sales decline. Ford’s bread and butter because they get crushed by competition everywhere else except the Maverick. The stock will take a beating this year.

It didn’t help the Mach-e had a national stop sale but EV sales are tiny for Ford.
They dropped, but I don’t think they’re out of the race… it may start as a slow year. Ford stocks have actually improved over last year… $11 to $13, which is huge in this market. Ford strength is their 450-750 HD chassis… and that will pick back up as economy delivers.

As a ‘24 F450 Limited Owner… at these prices many are recalculating their years of Ownership. Farmers, Ranchers, Oil Companies, Fleets. The 6.7 Diesel and Godzilla Gas will go many years, to trade a $75-120k truck every 2 yrs had slowed. When you could trade for small difference, trades were lower cost than long term maintenance.

The competition has “new” flavors to entice… but problems already showing up. I’ve already talked to many that regret their new Ram or GM.

I’ll stay with the Super Duty… still number 1.
 

dougcjohn

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I personally liked the F150 Lightning, actually “looked” like a truck. Speaking of which, hasn’t the Tesla Truck dropped significantly… it’s close to saturating its interested market.

Problem with EV is just adopting it into lifeflow… that didn’t appeal to me. Especially when it was becoming mandatory on horizon, same horizon that was attempting to kill diesel…which simply was ridiculous.

Bronco… love it. Been watching all you Bronc Owners for last few years… having one now is exciting. Only had for a few weeks, but it’s hands down better than both my Grand Cherokee Overland and Wrangler… and I started in ‘74 in a new CJ5.

Agree, seeing more on the road!
I do get a chuckle on YouTubes that have huge list of comments complaining of noise, floppy windows, etc. They’re so adored with the Iconish Bronco, a test drive didn’t identify these things! It’s not a luxury street car folks…
 

tourproto

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Valid points. At current pace, it will be a LONG time before there is voluntary wide-spread EV adoption. I do believe it's coming, but it's WAY out there.

Public charging is the Wild West. The "master plan" has been botched so badly it is pathetic. Compared to ICE refueling, for most of the country, BEV public refueling is: Less convenient, takes longer, More complex, Often more expensive than gas, More difficult to find. Who would sign up for that?

I would have never bought our MachE if we had to public charge. We haven't public charged once.

If you have decent utility rates, you can charge at home, and you generally daily drive well under your EV range, THEN they make a lot of sense.

Until public charging is at least almost equal to ICE, it will remain a tough sell for the masses.
100%.

Just think about all the "groups" of people that will never get EV due to infrastructure. People in rural Montana, Wyoming etc. There is just no way they are going to swap out the ease of gassing up their F-150s for having to "plan and navigate" to find a charging station in BFE (bum-fck-egypt). I don't know the breakdown of home owners vs. renters, but it is probably something around 67% homeowners and 33% renters. You can pretty much write off renters from EVs as they have extremely poor options for charging "at home". Just large swaths of Americans where an EV is just not practical.

So many things work against FURTHER adoption of EVs. They are roughly 10% of new vehicles but less than 2% of vehicles on the road. Without incentives it will stay that way, and while I am not a betting man, every state that has sunset timeframes for new ICE sales will be forced to roll them back due to public pressure when those dates approach because there is no way to make it practical, and the power grid won't be able to support it either because there isn't any investment in it.

It is sad because it is a good way to go, not just for the planet and environment, but maintenance costs as well. But there are so many public/private interests against EVs, that without a clear, long-term government push behind it, it will stall right where it is at. People who want it (and can afford it) have it, those that can't afford it or don't want it, will stay with ICE. That is why only 10% of the car buying population buys an EV. Reality sucks for the tree huggers to realize that what people "say they want" (a green world) and what they do when it is their money and time on the line are 2 very different things.
 

Roger123

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Anyone that wanted an EV has an EV and will probably continue to buy EV's. For me they have zero advantages and only bring in disadvantages, so I'll stick with my good ole ICE.

People have already chosen sides based on their needs. Maybe once charging gets more mainstream they will have a shot at convincing people to take a chance. If you can charge at home and never go outside of your area except on interstates to major cities you're good.

If you live in a house with < a 200amp service and don't want to spend a couple grand upgrading or live in an apartment, condo, or row house in a major city, or in remote areas, or travel to remote areas EV's are a tough sell.

I gas up my ICE and go, no drama, no wondering if there's an operating charger where I'm going, no concerns about anything what-so-ever, just worry free driving, how I want, when I want.

An EV would suffice 90% of my needs, my ICE car suffices 100%, why would I switch teams? You have no argument.

I always hear but there's NO maintenance, really? You have the same suspension, same braking system with brake fluid that needs to be changed every 3 years, same struts, same steering system, pretty sure the battery is cooled by some sort of coolant, there's some sort of battery heating system, you probably have a cabin air filter, windshield wipers, are there any bushings associated with the electric motor that may go bad?, pretty sure you still have wheel bearings, brake calipers, computer modules, wiring to be eaten by mice, etc. And at the end of the day there's a NAPA and often a small shop in most every small town in America. Where are you going to get your Pulsar EV repaired in BFE? You at least have a chance with your ICE Bronco.

I love all things automotive and am enjoying seeing the EV stuff play out but it didn't take long to pivot away from BEV to EREV. EREV is all the rage now just as BEV was a few years ago.
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