Dual top offering

[Deputy909]

Why doesn't Ford offer to deliver a duel top choice with the hard top model (assuming this is the only way to get the electrical and washer set up) coming with a soft top at delivery to be followed later by the hard top. I would spend the extra for this option.

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[ZackDanger]

Why doesn't Ford offer to deliver a duel top choice with the hard top model (assuming this is the only way to get the electrical and washer set up) coming with a soft top at delivery to be followed later by the hard top. I would spend the extra for this option.

Prohibitively expensive to ship, logistical nightmare to administer.

The better option is to order the hard top now, and then order the soft top from the parts counter and have them ship that separately. Much cheaper (for you) to pay for the soft top after the fact (plus more options) than dual tops up front (if they have to factor in the cost to ship the hard top later).

 

[Deputy909]

Prohibitively expensive to ship, logistical nightmare to administer.

The better option is to order the hard top now, and then order the soft top from the parts counter and have them ship that separately. Much cheaper (for you) to pay for the soft top after the fact (plus more options) than dual tops up front (if they have to factor in the cost to ship the hard top later).

I had not thought about shipping cost to get the tops to dealers. I just thought this we allow more builds to be done now, which I think would make the customers happier.

 

[John Bronco_ I am here]

Boat wrap, that is all I'm saying.




https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/threads/good-news-map-will-add-a-third-shift.16536/post-599345

 

[Blitzjb]

Why doesn't Ford offer to deliver a duel top choice with the hard top model (assuming this is the only way to get the electrical and washer set up) coming with a soft top at delivery to be followed later by the hard top. I would spend the extra for this option.

They simply can not produce enough of both tops at this time.....end of conversation

 

[ZackDanger]

I had not thought about shipping cost to get the tops to dealers. I just thought this we allow more builds to be done now, which I think would make the customers happier.

I keep going back to the buffet analogy when it comes to the Bronco woes, but the dual top option is the equivalent of "yeah, you can have seconds, but only after everyone has gone up first."

Of all the commodity concerns, the Webasto hardtop seems to be a major one. If they allowed dual tops now, they could potentially reduce the Bronco output by 1/2 (assuming everyone wanted it, etc etc etc)... so it's seems clear why they pushed it off to MY22 when Webasto should be able to provide hardtops at full output.

You're not the first person to bring up this notion of a delayed delivery for the hardtop, but like I said, the freight charge alone is going to be crazy.... and considering the reason for the delay, you might not see the hardtop until next year anyway (when Webasto may have been able to supply all the necessary hardtops if people just ordered those).

Here's a thought experiment.

I'm using the following totally made-up prices because I don't feel like looking up actual amounts:

Hard Top Price: $1,300
Soft Top Price: $1,000
Hard Top Shipping: $500 (on a pallet commercial freight delivery)
Soft Top Shipping: $100 (rolled up in a cardboard tube)

Right now you could purchase a bronco with a hard top now for $1,300, and take delivery in the next few months... and then buy a soft top for $1,100 in February ($2,400 total)......or you could delay until MY22 for the "dual top" option and receive your Bronco with both tops at the same time in February for $2,300 total.

In the delayed dual-top delivery situation, it might mean you could purchase a "dual top" now for $2,800 total, take delivery with a soft top in the next few months, and then receive your hard top in February.


The net result is someone is paying way more money than is necessary for the exact same outcome in the exact same timeframe.

::EDIT::

Now I'm totally distracted and am going to try to find some better/more accurate number estimates to see if I can't drill this down closer.

 

[BroncoKong Jr.]

This was initially offered but got delayed until MY22 because they can't produce enough tops.

 

[Migs1313]

This dual question had me thinking do we think Ford will push people who switched from dual or mod tops back to 2022 on purpose? I ask this because it says specifically in the email they sent about those tops to receive the points for changing you had to receive a 2021 model. So if they just push all those people back they wont owe anyone anything for messing up the mod and dual top options.

 

[Rubisquatch]

I would have no issues if they’d let me get dual tops now, deliver win the soft top and then if they allow me to drive up to Plymouth/Dearborn (on my own dime) and pick up the hard top myself and save everyone the shipping costs.

 

[ZackDanger]

I keep going back to the buffet analogy when it comes to the Bronco woes, but the dual top option is the equivalent of "yeah, you can have seconds, but only after everyone has gone up first."

Of all the commodity concerns, the Webasto hardtop seems to be a major one. If they allowed dual tops now, they could potentially reduce the Bronco output by 1/2 (assuming everyone wanted it, etc etc etc)... so it's seems clear why they pushed it off to MY22 when Webasto should be able to provide hardtops at full output.

You're not the first person to bring up this notion of a delayed delivery for the hardtop, but like I said, the freight charge alone is going to be crazy.... and considering the reason for the delay, you might not see the hardtop until next year anyway (when Webasto may have been able to supply all the necessary hardtops if people just ordered those).

Here's a thought experiment.

I'm using the following totally made-up prices because I don't feel like looking up actual amounts:

Hard Top Price: $1,300
Soft Top Price: $1,000
Hard Top Shipping: $500 (on a pallet commercial freight delivery)
Soft Top Shipping: $100 (rolled up in a cardboard tube)

Right now you could purchase a bronco with a hard top now for $1,300, and take delivery in the next few months... and then buy a soft top for $1,100 in February ($2,400 total)......or you could delay until MY22 for the "dual top" option and receive your Bronco with both tops at the same time in February for $2,300 total.

In the delayed dual-top delivery situation, it might mean you could purchase a "dual top" now for $2,800 total, take delivery with a soft top in the next few months, and then receive your hard top in February.


The net result is someone is paying way more money than is necessary for the exact same outcome in the exact same timeframe.

::EDIT::

Now I'm totally distracted and am going to try to find some better/more accurate number estimates to see if I can't drill this down closer.

Okay. So, here's what we got for price estimates assuming a 4-door bronco build (since a factory soft top is not available for the 2-door):

Factory Soft Top: $0
Factory MIC Top: $695
Factory Dual Top: $1,795

Accessory Vinyl Top: $1,579
Accessory Twill Top: $2,229
Accessory MIC Top: $3,500 (info for Bronco not available, used equivalent Jeep JL part)

Shipping Soft Top: $90
Freight Shipping for Hard Top: $480

We will assume that the price of shipping the accessories to the dealer is factored into the cost to the consumer of the accessory... but we still need to estimate what shipping items separately would cost since that will play a roll in how much it would cost Ford, and ultimately the customer, to have the hard top shipped separately in a dual top option. ( https://www.uship.com/listing/665766320/Hardtop-for-a-4-door-jeep-wrangler/ )

We will also assume the end goal is to have both tops for your bronco. We'll assume you have an extremely early timestamp and your bronco will be one of the first built when the number comes up without any other commodity concerns.


Scenario 1: Order Dual Tops.
Cost: $1,795
Vehicle Delivery: January 2022
Both Tops in Hand: January 2022
Note: Heavily delays delivery.

Scenario 2: Order Hard Top, purchase soft top later.
Cost: $2,274 - $2,924
Vehicle Delivery: August 2021
Both Tops in Hand: Jan 2022 or sooner.
Note: Bronco comes with rear hookups and driver controls. More soft top options that may be available sooner from other companies.

Scenario 3: Order "Dual Tops" with MIC top late delivery option.
Cost: $2,275 ($1,795 + $480)
Vehicle Delivery: August 2021
Both Tops in Hand: Jan 2022
Note: Bronco comes with rear hookups and driver controls. Does not accelerate initial delivery. Estimated cost includes shipping cost to Ford passed on to customer, but does not factor in $$ needed for Ford to administer the program.

Senarior 4: Order Soft top, purchased hard top later.
Cost: $3,500
Vehicle Delivery: August 2021
Both Tops in Hand: Jan 2022
Note: Bronco lacks rear hookups/harness and driver controls.


With these estimated numbers, the theoretical price of the dual top option with delayed delivery is comparable to purchasing just the MIC top with the soft top later... but doesn't account for any additional cost Ford would tack on to administer this program... as there is very real logistical and energy spent in doing that. It also doesn't get your bronco any sooner, and locks you into the OEM soft and hard tops, instead of providing the freedom of selecting other soft top options.

I guess my conclusion after doing this math is, from the customer standpoint, it might be worth even if it cost slightly more and took longer, to get a delayed "dual top" delivery option if I knew I wanted exactly those items... but if I was a logistics or finance person at ford, I don't need to do any more math than this to conclude I don't want to green light the program.... even if it meant a percentage of buyers would upgrade to the dual top.... I bet it wouldn't outweigh the literal and figurative costs of offering it.

I just don't think that juice is going to be worth the squeeze.

$0.02

 

[John Bronco_ I am here]

I guess my conclusion after doing this math is, from the customer standpoint, it might be worth even if it cost slightly more, to get a delayed "dual top" delivery option...

I agree, but I think you forgot the $1K in points ford is giving out if you take a 21MY delivery and changed from dual tops. To me this pays for the soft top $1200 less MSRP + $1K in points = $2,200 toward a soft top purchase.

So, I swapped from Dual top to just hard top. If my order does not make the cut for 21MY then the dual top goes back on the order. Getting both tops with your order is the absolute cheapest way to do it.

 

[ZackDanger]

the factory soft top looks rather complex... its not just a soft car cover that you can fold 20times and fit into an envelope. Theres some complex ridgid structures in it I think? maybe it can be further disassembled though

Im not sure if the accy tops are a fair surrogate for the cost+shipping of the factory top. I dont know if Ive seen those tops can "fold" back and all.

When you order the dual top, the vehicle is delivered with the hardtop installed and the soft top wrapped up inside the bronco.... so you're right, it's probably not completely going to fit in a cardboard tube... but it would be easily shipped by a UPS/FedEx/USPS (instead of in a TT unit and a pallet jack)

::EDIT::

Here is how the Jeep comes packaged from the factory:

 

[JaxGtc]

Okay. So, here's what we got for price estimates assuming a 4-door bronco build (since a factory soft top is not available for the 2-door):

Factory Soft Top: $0
Factory MIC Top: $695
Factory Dual Top: $1,795

Accessory Vinyl Top: $1,579
Accessory Twill Top: $2,229
Accessory MIC Top: $3,500 (info for Bronco not available, used equivalent Jeep JL part)

Shipping Soft Top: $90
Freight Shipping for Hard Top: $480

We will assume that the price of shipping the accessories to the dealer is factored into the cost to the consumer of the accessory... but we still need to estimate what shipping items separately would cost since that will play a roll in how much it would cost Ford, and ultimately the customer, to have the hard top shipped separately in a dual top option. ( https://www.uship.com/listing/665766320/Hardtop-for-a-4-door-jeep-wrangler/ )

We will also assume the end goal is to have both tops for your bronco. We'll assume you have an extremely early timestamp and your bronco will be one of the first built when the number comes up without any other commodity concerns.


Scenario 1: Order Dual Tops.
Cost: $1,795
Vehicle Delivery: January 2022
Both Tops in Hand: January 2022
Note: Heavily delays delivery.

Scenario 2: Order Hard Top, purchase soft top later.
Cost: $2,274 - $2,924
Vehicle Delivery: August 2021
Both Tops in Hand: Jan 2022 or sooner.
Note: Bronco comes with rear hookups and driver controls. More soft top options that may be available sooner from other companies.

Scenario 3: Order "Dual Tops" with MIC top late delivery option.
Cost: $2,275 ($1,795 + $480)
Vehicle Delivery: August 2021
Both Tops in Hand: Jan 2022
Note: Bronco comes with rear hookups and driver controls. Does not accelerate initial delivery. Estimated cost includes shipping cost to Ford passed on to customer, but does not factor in $$ needed for Ford to administer the program.

Senarior 4: Order Soft top, purchased hard top later.
Cost: $3,500
Vehicle Delivery: August 2021
Both Tops in Hand: Jan 2022
Note: Bronco lacks rear hookups/harness and driver controls.


With these estimated numbers, the theoretical price of the dual top option with delayed delivery is comparable to purchasing just the MIC top with the soft top later... but doesn't account for any additional cost Ford would tack on to administer this program... as there is very real logistical and energy spent in doing that. It also doesn't get your bronco any sooner, and locks you into the OEM soft and hard tops, instead of providing the freedom of selecting other soft top options.

I guess my conclusion after doing this math is, from the customer standpoint, it might be worth even if it cost slightly more and took longer, to get a delayed "dual top" delivery option if I knew I wanted exactly those items... but if I was a logistics or finance person at ford, I don't need to do any more math than this to conclude I don't want to green light the program.... even if it meant a percentage of buyers would upgrade to the dual top.... I bet it wouldn't outweigh the literal and figurative costs of offering it.

I just don't think that juice is going to be worth the squeeze.

$0.02

A very good analysis of the issue from a finance perspective. I think that your first take was probably the most compelling, giving anyone 2 of something that is in short supply limits the total number served. I would not be surprised if dual tops were not pushed to "late availability" even when MY22 comes for that reason. Then again, maybe top production is humming by next year and this all is a non-issue.

 

[JT58Bronc]

How about free soft top until hard top comes in, then you get your hard top. How many more Broncos could Ford pump out and deliver now and capture the earnings versus the loss of a soft top. Or perhaps they offer the soft top at cost to get your Bronco 6 -12 months early. I would sign up- anybody else?

 

[Rubicon 2 Badlands]

I keep going back to the buffet analogy when it comes to the Bronco woes, but the dual top option is the equivalent of "yeah, you can have seconds, but only after everyone has gone up first."

Of all the commodity concerns, the Webasto hardtop seems to be a major one. If they allowed dual tops now, they could potentially reduce the Bronco output by 1/2 (assuming everyone wanted it, etc etc etc)... so it's seems clear why they pushed it off to MY22 when Webasto should be able to provide hardtops at full output.

You're not the first person to bring up this notion of a delayed delivery for the hardtop, but like I said, the freight charge alone is going to be crazy.... and considering the reason for the delay, you might not see the hardtop until next year anyway (when Webasto may have been able to supply all the necessary hardtops if people just ordered those).

Here's a thought experiment.

I'm using the following totally made-up prices because I don't feel like looking up actual amounts:

Hard Top Price: $1,300
Soft Top Price: $1,000
Hard Top Shipping: $500 (on a pallet commercial freight delivery)
Soft Top Shipping: $100 (rolled up in a cardboard tube)

Right now you could purchase a bronco with a hard top now for $1,300, and take delivery in the next few months... and then buy a soft top for $1,100 in February ($2,400 total)......or you could delay until MY22 for the "dual top" option and receive your Bronco with both tops at the same time in February for $2,300 total.

In the delayed dual-top delivery situation, it might mean you could purchase a "dual top" now for $2,800 total, take delivery with a soft top in the next few months, and then receive your hard top in February.


The net result is someone is paying way more money than is necessary for the exact same outcome in the exact same timeframe.

::EDIT::

Now I'm totally distracted and am going to try to find some better/more accurate number estimates to see if I can't drill this down closer.

As always, you are the "Voice of Reason."

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