Hill Start Assist

[MVP]

Manuals are fun, yes. But the bronco isn't the correct type of vehicle to get in a manual to have more fun IMO. Its will be fun but not even close to loud sports car manual shifting fun. Yeah, yeah, its got the crawler gear and that's neat for sure. But I'll pass on stalling the bronc while rock crawling. The crawler gear will surely make it much easier to not stall though.

As for hill start... its nice if you need it I guess but its completely unnecessary. I've owned many manual transmission cars and driven even more. From 65hp to 350+hp. I've used hill start never except to see how it worked on a subaru that wasnt mine. I've used an e brake less than 5 times ever when starting from a stop and I was in reverse. Its not about being manly or anything. Its about being good at a particular skill. Personally I wouldn't be driving a manual around without more practice if I was even remotely worried about starting on a hill. If you actually are worried if a vehicle has it, practice more...
Clutch out, slowly, slowly. Feeling the rear squat a bit as the car tries to pull awa? Now switch to gas quickly and begin to release clutch all the way.

there’s no such thing as not the correct type of vehicle to have fun with a manual. Speed has nothing to do with it. The tach is going to climb and you are going to shift no matter how fast or slow.

If you read my original post it wasn’t about being worried if it doesn’t have hill start assist. At the time I was asking if anyone knew if it did. I never thought I would need it on a motorcycle(and I still don’t “need” it) but when I got it it was a nice creature comfort. Being able to relax at a light on a hill and not have to hold the brakes is nice.

I certainly don’t need your opinion on practicing more if I am worried that a vehicle has or doesn’t have hill start assist. I have driven semi-trucks, tractors, bull dozers, cherry pickers, genies, dump trucks, excavators,right hand drive manuals from asia, cranes, forklifts, suicide shifters.

Wondering if a vehicle has a creature comfort to save your knees on your day off does not mean you can’t perform without it.

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[Deleted member 13702]

Manuals are fun, yes. But the bronco isn't the correct type of vehicle to get in a manual to have more fun IMO. Its will be fun but not even close to loud sports car manual shifting fun. Yeah, yeah, its got the crawler gear and that's neat for sure. But I'll pass on stalling the bronc while rock crawling. The crawler gear will surely make it much easier to not stall though.

As for hill start... its nice if you need it I guess but its completely unnecessary. I've owned many manual transmission cars and driven even more. From 65hp to 350+hp. I've used hill start never except to see how it worked on a subaru that wasnt mine. I've used an e brake less than 5 times ever when starting from a stop and I was in reverse. Its not about being manly or anything. Its about being good at a particular skill. Personally I wouldn't be driving a manual around without more practice if I was even remotely worried about starting on a hill. If you actually are worried if a vehicle has it, practice more...
Clutch out, slowly, slowly. Feeling the rear squat a bit as the car tries to pull awa? Now switch to gas quickly and begin to release clutch all the way.

This is exactly the type of post I was talking about. “I’m not getting a manual, but I’ll tell you how to drive. Ohh and by the way, any feature that makes your life easier means you need more practice.”

How is this helpful to the original question. If you’re not considering a manual for the Bronco then maybe you shouldn’t be telling those of us that are what is and isn’t beneficial.

 

[Bradley]

You know, I've read every post here and given I've had a few Broncos - all autos - and my daily drivers - Lincolns - are autos, obviously, but I thought I might post something here about the stick given the ruffled feathers. I apparently don't know a lot about anything but I do know that I am getting a manual, a big lift, some big tires, upgraded brakes and giddy-up - I can't imagine anything more boring than an automatic. Yes, I'll drive it daily, and in the 6' of snow, we get every year. My summer cars, Mustangs, have always been sticks. And honestly, if you have a problem getting going on a hill, you really shouldn't be driving a stick to begin with. Okay, my current 30-year-old Mustang has about 550lbs of torque in a 3200lb car, and throws chunks of $500 tires at the POS Eurotrash behind me, so starting on a hill in 3rd gear isn't really hard, but are you telling me that starting on a hill is an issue with any stock engine? You don't think the engineers thought of that? Burning the clutch? Really? I guess if you want the computer to drive you, get an auto, have fun. If you want to drive it, seriously, get a stick, disconnect every "feature" you can and let loose. This hill assist is no better than the self parallel parking car. You gotta ask yourself, should you be on the road? (Speaking of, I passed my parallel parking test in a 460 1978 Grand Marquis - THAT was a car.) I don't know sht but it seems that all these gizmos are for lazy people.

 

[BigFootie]

 

[flatlander40]

There will be times on and off road, where you'll want particular control of throttle, clutch and brakes. Without a manual brake lever for the hand, how is the driver going to accomplish that? On a related note, has anyone heard if the Bronco will allow starting while in gear?

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...ction-and-hill-descent-control-revealed.8582/

 

[Efthreeoh]

I don’t think you have to worry. I haven’t seen any mention of it. I have never driven a manual car with it. Only my motorcycle and it works perfectly every time. I just give a little more gas than I normally would.

It will be interesting. I have 3 BMW cars that have the hill-hold function. As a well-practiced 40+ year manual driver and rider I have no real need for a hill-hold function, but BMW integrates so well that I never notice it is active. I'm sure BMW uses the same software on the K1600 as it does in its cars, which is why you like it. I will say that the hill-hold function would be much better appreciated on a motorcycle since brake/throttle actuation is difficult at times since front brake actuation and throttle control is orchestrated by the right hand, and in some situations holding the rear brake with your right foot is difficult. Also, good riding technique dictates that your left foot should be near the shifter (i.e. on the peg) in case you have to shift into first and leave a stopped condition in case of an emergency. My very large scooter (Honda Valkyrie) has an old skool braking system .

BMW's hill hold system for it's cars is also time-based and releases in 3 seconds if the transmission is in neutral. When in gear, it releases based off of wheel movement detected by the wheel speed sensors, so it's not torque-based, meaning a certain level of power does not need to be applied to the drivetrain to overcome the hill-hold function. Hopefully Ford will use similar functionality.

Side note... how do you like the K-series in-line 6?

 

[Efthreeoh]

Manuals are fun, yes. But the bronco isn't the correct type of vehicle to get in a manual to have more fun IMO. Its will be fun but not even close to loud sports car manual shifting fun. Yeah, yeah, its got the crawler gear and that's neat for sure. But I'll pass on stalling the bronc while rock crawling. The crawler gear will surely make it much easier to not stall though.

As for hill start... its nice if you need it I guess but its completely unnecessary. I've owned many manual transmission cars and driven even more. From 65hp to 350+hp. I've used hill start never except to see how it worked on a subaru that wasnt mine. I've used an e brake less than 5 times ever when starting from a stop and I was in reverse. Its not about being manly or anything. Its about being good at a particular skill. Personally I wouldn't be driving a manual around without more practice if I was even remotely worried about starting on a hill. If you actually are worried if a vehicle has it, practice more...
Clutch out, slowly, slowly. Feeling the rear squat a bit as the car tries to pull awa? Now switch to gas quickly and begin to release clutch all the way.

What year Subaru? Until the advent of ABS, most cars that had a hill-hold assist was comprised of a mechanical linkage in the brake master cylinder that held brake pressure until the car moved forward; it was basically a ball that rolled into a slot when the car was on a hill. It could be jerky to disengage. Old Subie's and Chryslers used such a system. All modern cars with it use the ABS system to hold brake pressure until wheel rotation is detected.

I'm sure most of us dedicated manual enthusiasts, such as the OP, have plenty experience with releasing the clutch on a hill without rolling backwards. It's not that hard to learn and there is no testosterone drain if one relies on the modern version of the hill-hold function. Viagra is not needed for this skill...

 

[bloominguez]

It will be interesting. I have 3 BMW cars that have the hill-hold function. As a well-practiced 40+ year manual driver and rider I have no real need for a hill-hold function, but BMW integrates so well that I never notice it is active. I'm sure BMW uses the same software on the K1600 as it does in its cars, which is why you like it. I will say that the hill-hold function would be much better appreciated on a motorcycle since brake/throttle actuation is difficult at times since front brake actuation and throttle control is orchestrated by the right hand, and in some situations holding the rear brake with your right foot is difficult. Also, good riding technique dictates that your left foot should be near the shifter (i.e. on the peg) in case you have to shift into first and leave a stopped condition in case of an emergency. My very large scooter (Honda Valkyrie) has an old skool braking system .

Lots to agree with here. I also have a BMW car that integrates the hill-hold function well, and don't mind it even though I don't need it.

However...
I don't agree with the motorcycle comments. I find that it's a LOT easier to coordinate hand movements for brake and throttle on a motorcycle than in a car. Easier to move the hands faster, all the controls are right there. If you ride much you're probably used to using throttle and front brake simultaneously anyway, if you want to do that--not that you need to. Or just hold the rear brake with your foot. Practically speaking, though, it's trivial to just release the front brake and get on the gas fast enough. Maybe brake-hold is more useful on a really big bike like your Valkyrie or the K1600. Largest bike I've owned back in the day was probably my old V65 Sabre.

 

[MVP]

Lots to agree with here. I also have a BMW car that integrates the hill-hold function well, and don't mind it even though I don't need it.

However...
I don't agree with the motorcycle comments. I find that it's a LOT easier to coordinate hand movements for brake and throttle on a motorcycle than in a car. Easier to move the hands faster, all the controls are right there. If you ride much you're probably used to using throttle and front brake simultaneously anyway, if you want to do that--not that you need to. Or just hold the rear brake with your foot. Practically speaking, though, it's trivial to just release the front brake and get on the gas fast enough. Maybe brake-hold is more useful on a really big bike like your Valkyrie or the K1600. Largest bike I've owned back in the day was probably my old V65 Sabre.

On my K1600 the brake hold isn’t necessary. I also find it much “easier” on a bike because you can hold the rear brake with your right foot and the clutch and throttle are their own hand.

My bike is also super easy to let go of the front brake and go. It’s also super easy to just let the clutch out to the friction zone and have the clutch hold me in place without the brakes.

What I like about the brake hold is being able to pop it in neutral and relax whether I’m pointing uphill or downhill. Always covering the brake if the system should fail.

Like I said I drive heavy machinery for work whenever I get a chance I try to give my knees a rest.

 

[MVP]

It will be interesting. I have 3 BMW cars that have the hill-hold function. As a well-practiced 40+ year manual driver and rider I have no real need for a hill-hold function, but BMW integrates so well that I never notice it is active. I'm sure BMW uses the same software on the K1600 as it does in its cars, which is why you like it. I will say that the hill-hold function would be much better appreciated on a motorcycle since brake/throttle actuation is difficult at times since front brake actuation and throttle control is orchestrated by the right hand, and in some situations holding the rear brake with your right foot is difficult. Also, good riding technique dictates that your left foot should be near the shifter (i.e. on the peg) in case you have to shift into first and leave a stopped condition in case of an emergency. My very large scooter (Honda Valkyrie) has an old skool braking system .

BMW's hill hold system for it's cars is also time-based and releases in 3 seconds if the transmission is in neutral. When in gear, it releases based off of wheel movement detected by the wheel speed sensors, so it's not torque-based, meaning a certain level of power does not need to be applied to the drivetrain to overcome the hill-hold function. Hopefully Ford will use similar functionality.

Side note... how do you like the K-series in-line 6?

The system on the bike is not time based so you can leave it in neutral and it won’t release.

I love the in-line 6. It’s So smooth and so fast. 160hp for something like 700 lbs. it’s a really great bike. Easy to go for a spirited ride on the weekend and just as easy to load it up and go touring with my gf. 500+ mile days are no problem.

 

[Efthreeoh]

Lots to agree with here. I also have a BMW car that integrates the hill-hold function well, and don't mind it even though I don't need it.

However...
I don't agree with the motorcycle comments. I find that it's a LOT easier to coordinate hand movements for brake and throttle on a motorcycle than in a car. Easier to move the hands faster, all the controls are right there. If you ride much you're probably used to using throttle and front brake simultaneously anyway, if you want to do that--not that you need to. Or just hold the rear brake with your foot. Practically speaking, though, it's trivial to just release the front brake and get on the gas fast enough. Maybe brake-hold is more useful on a really big bike like your Valkyrie or the K1600. Largest bike I've owned back in the day was probably my old V65 Sabre.

Well, two up with three full bags on a two-week tour on a bike that weighs 750 pounds wet is a bit different than a V65 sabre (great bike BTW) that weighs maybe 400 pounds (I'm guessing). I had a Yamaha Seca 650 as my first street bike and never worried about hill launches. I don't even worry now; it's just I can see the convenience of hill-hold assist on a full-dress tourer.

On my cars, I occasionally play with the system just to have it release in neutral and let the car roll back. The BMW system works going down hill too.

 

[Efthreeoh]

The system on the bike is not time based so you can leave it in neutral and it won’t release.

I love the in-line 6. It’s So smooth and so fast. 160hp for something like 700 lbs. it’s a really great bike. Easy to go for a spirited ride on the weekend and just as easy to load it up and go touring with my gf. 500+ mile days are no problem.

I seriously gave a look at the K1600 in 2012, it was hard to find one back then, but outside of an in-line 6, a flat-6 is just as smooth, plus it drops the CG way down low, which as I get older I appreciate more, so it's too hard to give up the Valk. Your bike is the only BMW you can still get a naturally asperated in-line 6 Which, as a 30-year Bimmerhead, I find extremely sad.

 

[bloominguez]

Well, two up with three full bags on a two-week tour on a bike that weighs 750 pounds wet is a bit different than a V65 sabre (great bike BTW) that weighs maybe 400 pounds (I'm guessing). I had a Yamaha Seca 650 as my first street bike and never worried about hill launches. I don't even worry now; it's just I can see the convenience of hill-hold assist on a full-dress tourer.

On my cars, I occasionally play with the system just to have it release in neutral and let the car roll back. The BMW system works going down hill too.

Ha, the Sabre was more like 600 lbs, it was a beast. Back in '85 (I actually bought it used in 1991 or so) Honda didn't care much about minimizing weight. The 1098 cc V-4 is one of the best engines I've ever owned. But I get the point about brake holding being useful on a big bike two up.

I do the same thing on my BMW. Roll up and brush the brakes gently, no brake hold. Excellent implementation.

 

[RockyMtnTurboThrust]

The Ford driver states that the Bronco does have hill start assist at the 12 minute mark.

 

[Efthreeoh]

You know, I've read every post here and given I've had a few Broncos - all autos - and my daily drivers - Lincolns - are autos, obviously, but I thought I might post something here about the stick given the ruffled feathers. I apparently don't know a lot about anything but I do know that I am getting a manual, a big lift, some big tires, upgraded brakes and giddy-up - I can't imagine anything more boring than an automatic. Yes, I'll drive it daily, and in the 6' of snow, we get every year. My summer cars, Mustangs, have always been sticks. And honestly, if you have a problem getting going on a hill, you really shouldn't be driving a stick to begin with. Okay, my current 30-year-old Mustang has about 550lbs of torque in a 3200lb car, and throws chunks of $500 tires at the POS Eurotrash behind me, so starting on a hill in 3rd gear isn't really hard, but are you telling me that starting on a hill is an issue with any stock engine? You don't think the engineers thought of that? Burning the clutch? Really? I guess if you want the computer to drive you, get an auto, have fun. If you want to drive it, seriously, get a stick, disconnect every "feature" you can and let loose. This hill assist is no better than the self parallel parking car. You gotta ask yourself, should you be on the road? (Speaking of, I passed my parallel parking test in a 460 1978 Grand Marquis - THAT was a car.) I don't know sht but it seems that all these gizmos are for lazy people.

My dad drove a '72 Marquis. Black over black with the 429. We called it the Mafia Staff car. I finally got to drive it senior year of high school and took it to college for a few semesters. Loved that car.

While I think you do know your sht , the hill-assist in my cars are transparent and are inoffensive to my manly clutch-driven ego . I've driven nothing but manuals my entire driving life, and instinctively launch on hills without the system kicking in, or if it does I can't tell; I'm not sure this is a big deal. Just sayin'

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