Hill Start Assist

[BlazinGTO]

Manuals are fun, yes. But the bronco isn't the correct type of vehicle to get in a manual to have more fun IMO. Its will be fun but not even close to loud sports car manual shifting fun. Yeah, yeah, its got the crawler gear and that's neat for sure. But I'll pass on stalling the bronc while rock crawling. The crawler gear will surely make it much easier to not stall though.

As for hill start... its nice if you need it I guess but its completely unnecessary. I've owned many manual transmission cars and driven even more. From 65hp to 350+hp. I've used hill start never except to see how it worked on a subaru that wasnt mine. I've used an e brake less than 5 times ever when starting from a stop and I was in reverse. Its not about being manly or anything. Its about being good at a particular skill. Personally I wouldn't be driving a manual around without more practice if I was even remotely worried about starting on a hill. If you actually are worried if a vehicle has it, practice more...
Clutch out, slowly, slowly. Feeling the rear squat a bit as the car tries to pull awa? Now switch to gas quickly and begin to release clutch all the way.

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[rugbysecondrow]

I keep coming back to the manual, and debating should I, shouldn’t I.

For me, I can drive a manual; I used to drive large 8 speed dump trucks. It’s more about livability.

I’m not rich and this truck will be my daily driver. I want something fun, but also easy for going back and forth to work, or taking on vacation. I like the idea of the manual, but I’m not sure if I will still be enamored with it in two years.

I love the idea of rowing gears with the top off on the trail or at the beach. With that said, anything that negates the cons of driving a manual on hills or in traffic etc. I’m all for. I haven’t found any literature that says it will have hill stop assist, but I for one hope it has it.

On a separate note, I still can’t help but laugh at people that scoff at features designed to make a manual easier to drive on a daily basis, then opt for an auto, all while buying one of the most tech focused SUVs on the planet. An SUV that has a dial to select off-road modes so you don’t have to think about it, which includes one pedal driving, turn assist, hill descent, oh and hill control assist (just designed for the auto), Hypocritical much?

When I had heavy traffic in my commute (think DC beltway) then I would dislike my manual. Then, traffic opened up, I shifted through my gears, breeze started flowing through the windows, and I remembered why I enjoyed the MT. I actually think the crawler gear would help the traffic driving. Put it in first and just slowly move though traffic. My problem was always first gear being too much.

Anyway, MT will be fun. I love the connectedness of driving a MT. The feel of it. To each their own though, no shame in an auto...you can hold your coffee and drive at the same time.

 

[MVP]

Manuals are fun, yes. But the bronco isn't the correct type of vehicle to get in a manual to have more fun IMO. Its will be fun but not even close to loud sports car manual shifting fun. Yeah, yeah, its got the crawler gear and that's neat for sure. But I'll pass on stalling the bronc while rock crawling. The crawler gear will surely make it much easier to not stall though.

As for hill start... its nice if you need it I guess but its completely unnecessary. I've owned many manual transmission cars and driven even more. From 65hp to 350+hp. I've used hill start never except to see how it worked on a subaru that wasnt mine. I've used an e brake less than 5 times ever when starting from a stop and I was in reverse. Its not about being manly or anything. Its about being good at a particular skill. Personally I wouldn't be driving a manual around without more practice if I was even remotely worried about starting on a hill. If you actually are worried if a vehicle has it, practice more...
Clutch out, slowly, slowly. Feeling the rear squat a bit as the car tries to pull awa? Now switch to gas quickly and begin to release clutch all the way.

there’s no such thing as not the correct type of vehicle to have fun with a manual. Speed has nothing to do with it. The tach is going to climb and you are going to shift no matter how fast or slow.

If you read my original post it wasn’t about being worried if it doesn’t have hill start assist. At the time I was asking if anyone knew if it did. I never thought I would need it on a motorcycle(and I still don’t “need” it) but when I got it it was a nice creature comfort. Being able to relax at a light on a hill and not have to hold the brakes is nice.

I certainly don’t need your opinion on practicing more if I am worried that a vehicle has or doesn’t have hill start assist. I have driven semi-trucks, tractors, bull dozers, cherry pickers, genies, dump trucks, excavators,right hand drive manuals from asia, cranes, forklifts, suicide shifters.

Wondering if a vehicle has a creature comfort to save your knees on your day off does not mean you can’t perform without it.

 

[Deleted member 13702]

Manuals are fun, yes. But the bronco isn't the correct type of vehicle to get in a manual to have more fun IMO. Its will be fun but not even close to loud sports car manual shifting fun. Yeah, yeah, its got the crawler gear and that's neat for sure. But I'll pass on stalling the bronc while rock crawling. The crawler gear will surely make it much easier to not stall though.

As for hill start... its nice if you need it I guess but its completely unnecessary. I've owned many manual transmission cars and driven even more. From 65hp to 350+hp. I've used hill start never except to see how it worked on a subaru that wasnt mine. I've used an e brake less than 5 times ever when starting from a stop and I was in reverse. Its not about being manly or anything. Its about being good at a particular skill. Personally I wouldn't be driving a manual around without more practice if I was even remotely worried about starting on a hill. If you actually are worried if a vehicle has it, practice more...
Clutch out, slowly, slowly. Feeling the rear squat a bit as the car tries to pull awa? Now switch to gas quickly and begin to release clutch all the way.

This is exactly the type of post I was talking about. “I’m not getting a manual, but I’ll tell you how to drive. Ohh and by the way, any feature that makes your life easier means you need more practice.”

How is this helpful to the original question. If you’re not considering a manual for the Bronco then maybe you shouldn’t be telling those of us that are what is and isn’t beneficial.

 

[BigFootie]

 

[indio22]

There will be times on and off road, where you'll want particular control of throttle, clutch and brakes. Without a manual brake lever for the hand, how is the driver going to accomplish that? On a related note, has anyone heard if the Bronco will allow starting while in gear?

 

[flatlander40]

There will be times on and off road, where you'll want particular control of throttle, clutch and brakes. Without a manual brake lever for the hand, how is the driver going to accomplish that? On a related note, has anyone heard if the Bronco will allow starting while in gear?

https://www.bronco6g.com/forum/thre...ction-and-hill-descent-control-revealed.8582/

 

[Efthreeoh]

I don’t think you have to worry. I haven’t seen any mention of it. I have never driven a manual car with it. Only my motorcycle and it works perfectly every time. I just give a little more gas than I normally would.

It will be interesting. I have 3 BMW cars that have the hill-hold function. As a well-practiced 40+ year manual driver and rider I have no real need for a hill-hold function, but BMW integrates so well that I never notice it is active. I'm sure BMW uses the same software on the K1600 as it does in its cars, which is why you like it. I will say that the hill-hold function would be much better appreciated on a motorcycle since brake/throttle actuation is difficult at times since front brake actuation and throttle control is orchestrated by the right hand, and in some situations holding the rear brake with your right foot is difficult. Also, good riding technique dictates that your left foot should be near the shifter (i.e. on the peg) in case you have to shift into first and leave a stopped condition in case of an emergency. My very large scooter (Honda Valkyrie) has an old skool braking system .

BMW's hill hold system for it's cars is also time-based and releases in 3 seconds if the transmission is in neutral. When in gear, it releases based off of wheel movement detected by the wheel speed sensors, so it's not torque-based, meaning a certain level of power does not need to be applied to the drivetrain to overcome the hill-hold function. Hopefully Ford will use similar functionality.

Side note... how do you like the K-series in-line 6?

 

[Efthreeoh]

Manuals are fun, yes. But the bronco isn't the correct type of vehicle to get in a manual to have more fun IMO. Its will be fun but not even close to loud sports car manual shifting fun. Yeah, yeah, its got the crawler gear and that's neat for sure. But I'll pass on stalling the bronc while rock crawling. The crawler gear will surely make it much easier to not stall though.

As for hill start... its nice if you need it I guess but its completely unnecessary. I've owned many manual transmission cars and driven even more. From 65hp to 350+hp. I've used hill start never except to see how it worked on a subaru that wasnt mine. I've used an e brake less than 5 times ever when starting from a stop and I was in reverse. Its not about being manly or anything. Its about being good at a particular skill. Personally I wouldn't be driving a manual around without more practice if I was even remotely worried about starting on a hill. If you actually are worried if a vehicle has it, practice more...
Clutch out, slowly, slowly. Feeling the rear squat a bit as the car tries to pull awa? Now switch to gas quickly and begin to release clutch all the way.

What year Subaru? Until the advent of ABS, most cars that had a hill-hold assist was comprised of a mechanical linkage in the brake master cylinder that held brake pressure until the car moved forward; it was basically a ball that rolled into a slot when the car was on a hill. It could be jerky to disengage. Old Subie's and Chryslers used such a system. All modern cars with it use the ABS system to hold brake pressure until wheel rotation is detected.

I'm sure most of us dedicated manual enthusiasts, such as the OP, have plenty experience with releasing the clutch on a hill without rolling backwards. It's not that hard to learn and there is no testosterone drain if one relies on the modern version of the hill-hold function. Viagra is not needed for this skill...

 

[bloominguez]

It will be interesting. I have 3 BMW cars that have the hill-hold function. As a well-practiced 40+ year manual driver and rider I have no real need for a hill-hold function, but BMW integrates so well that I never notice it is active. I'm sure BMW uses the same software on the K1600 as it does in its cars, which is why you like it. I will say that the hill-hold function would be much better appreciated on a motorcycle since brake/throttle actuation is difficult at times since front brake actuation and throttle control is orchestrated by the right hand, and in some situations holding the rear brake with your right foot is difficult. Also, good riding technique dictates that your left foot should be near the shifter (i.e. on the peg) in case you have to shift into first and leave a stopped condition in case of an emergency. My very large scooter (Honda Valkyrie) has an old skool braking system .

Lots to agree with here. I also have a BMW car that integrates the hill-hold function well, and don't mind it even though I don't need it.

However...
I don't agree with the motorcycle comments. I find that it's a LOT easier to coordinate hand movements for brake and throttle on a motorcycle than in a car. Easier to move the hands faster, all the controls are right there. If you ride much you're probably used to using throttle and front brake simultaneously anyway, if you want to do that--not that you need to. Or just hold the rear brake with your foot. Practically speaking, though, it's trivial to just release the front brake and get on the gas fast enough. Maybe brake-hold is more useful on a really big bike like your Valkyrie or the K1600. Largest bike I've owned back in the day was probably my old V65 Sabre.

 

[MVP]

Lots to agree with here. I also have a BMW car that integrates the hill-hold function well, and don't mind it even though I don't need it.

However...
I don't agree with the motorcycle comments. I find that it's a LOT easier to coordinate hand movements for brake and throttle on a motorcycle than in a car. Easier to move the hands faster, all the controls are right there. If you ride much you're probably used to using throttle and front brake simultaneously anyway, if you want to do that--not that you need to. Or just hold the rear brake with your foot. Practically speaking, though, it's trivial to just release the front brake and get on the gas fast enough. Maybe brake-hold is more useful on a really big bike like your Valkyrie or the K1600. Largest bike I've owned back in the day was probably my old V65 Sabre.

On my K1600 the brake hold isn’t necessary. I also find it much “easier” on a bike because you can hold the rear brake with your right foot and the clutch and throttle are their own hand.

My bike is also super easy to let go of the front brake and go. It’s also super easy to just let the clutch out to the friction zone and have the clutch hold me in place without the brakes.

What I like about the brake hold is being able to pop it in neutral and relax whether I’m pointing uphill or downhill. Always covering the brake if the system should fail.

Like I said I drive heavy machinery for work whenever I get a chance I try to give my knees a rest.

 

[MVP]

It will be interesting. I have 3 BMW cars that have the hill-hold function. As a well-practiced 40+ year manual driver and rider I have no real need for a hill-hold function, but BMW integrates so well that I never notice it is active. I'm sure BMW uses the same software on the K1600 as it does in its cars, which is why you like it. I will say that the hill-hold function would be much better appreciated on a motorcycle since brake/throttle actuation is difficult at times since front brake actuation and throttle control is orchestrated by the right hand, and in some situations holding the rear brake with your right foot is difficult. Also, good riding technique dictates that your left foot should be near the shifter (i.e. on the peg) in case you have to shift into first and leave a stopped condition in case of an emergency. My very large scooter (Honda Valkyrie) has an old skool braking system .

BMW's hill hold system for it's cars is also time-based and releases in 3 seconds if the transmission is in neutral. When in gear, it releases based off of wheel movement detected by the wheel speed sensors, so it's not torque-based, meaning a certain level of power does not need to be applied to the drivetrain to overcome the hill-hold function. Hopefully Ford will use similar functionality.

Side note... how do you like the K-series in-line 6?

The system on the bike is not time based so you can leave it in neutral and it won’t release.

I love the in-line 6. It’s So smooth and so fast. 160hp for something like 700 lbs. it’s a really great bike. Easy to go for a spirited ride on the weekend and just as easy to load it up and go touring with my gf. 500+ mile days are no problem.

 

[Efthreeoh]

Lots to agree with here. I also have a BMW car that integrates the hill-hold function well, and don't mind it even though I don't need it.

However...
I don't agree with the motorcycle comments. I find that it's a LOT easier to coordinate hand movements for brake and throttle on a motorcycle than in a car. Easier to move the hands faster, all the controls are right there. If you ride much you're probably used to using throttle and front brake simultaneously anyway, if you want to do that--not that you need to. Or just hold the rear brake with your foot. Practically speaking, though, it's trivial to just release the front brake and get on the gas fast enough. Maybe brake-hold is more useful on a really big bike like your Valkyrie or the K1600. Largest bike I've owned back in the day was probably my old V65 Sabre.

Well, two up with three full bags on a two-week tour on a bike that weighs 750 pounds wet is a bit different than a V65 sabre (great bike BTW) that weighs maybe 400 pounds (I'm guessing). I had a Yamaha Seca 650 as my first street bike and never worried about hill launches. I don't even worry now; it's just I can see the convenience of hill-hold assist on a full-dress tourer.

On my cars, I occasionally play with the system just to have it release in neutral and let the car roll back. The BMW system works going down hill too.

 

[Efthreeoh]

The system on the bike is not time based so you can leave it in neutral and it won’t release.

I love the in-line 6. It’s So smooth and so fast. 160hp for something like 700 lbs. it’s a really great bike. Easy to go for a spirited ride on the weekend and just as easy to load it up and go touring with my gf. 500+ mile days are no problem.

I seriously gave a look at the K1600 in 2012, it was hard to find one back then, but outside of an in-line 6, a flat-6 is just as smooth, plus it drops the CG way down low, which as I get older I appreciate more, so it's too hard to give up the Valk. Your bike is the only BMW you can still get a naturally asperated in-line 6 Which, as a 30-year Bimmerhead, I find extremely sad.

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