"Manual Transmission Could Be Forced Into Retirement"

[ZackDanger]

I think your assumption that these safety features leads to more distracted driving is incorrect. I think cell phones as a whole have lead to more distracted driving and these safety features are just saving lives. Most of them can be turned off if you prefer but I don't think the steady decline of car crash deaths is a bad thing.

People who insist additional safety features lead to less safety are the same people who insist they drive better when they’re high because they’re more relaxed and it forces them to pay closer attention.

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[HotdogThud]

A looooong time ago, I worked for Verizon Wireless (late 90s to early 2000s) and would you believe that the biggest thing to kill the manual is that thing you're holding in your hand right now?

For real, they had market research and analytics from automakers at the time, that the biggest reason people weren't getting manuals was because it was harder to use a phone and drive at the same time.

 

[Deleted member 18388]

People who insist additional safety features lead to less safety are the same people who insist they drive better when they’re high because they’re more relaxed and it forces them to pay closer attention.

Just to clarify, I never said the safety features lead to less safety. Im just saying getting rid of manual transmissions to accomplish safety doesn't mean it will be safer. As there have been studies showing manuals lead to less distracted driving. All im trying to say...

 

[ZackDanger]

Just to clarify, I never said the safety features lead to less safety. Im just saying getting rid of manual transmissions to accomplish safety doesn't mean it will be safer. As there have been studies showing manuals lead to less distracted driving. All im trying to say...

Yeah, I didn’t intend to imply you did say that. I was just making an observation based on the point someone else brought up.

 

[guerro]

A looooong time ago, I worked for Verizon Wireless (late 90s to early 2000s) and would you believe that the biggest thing to kill the manual is that thing you're holding in your hand right now?

For real, they had market research and analytics from automakers at the time, that the biggest reason people weren't getting manuals was because it was harder to use a phone and drive at the same time.

I heard the study actually said "hold your ice cold Budweiser and drive at the same time" but MADD got all butt hurt so they went the phone direction.

 

[918v]

What does emergency braking have to do with a manual transmission??? It’s a sensor that applies the brakes. It doesn’t do anything to the transmission.

 

[Deleted member 18388]

What does emergency braking have to do with a manual transmission??? It’s a sensor that applies the brakes. It doesn’t do anything to the transmission.

Agreed. Ford is apparently mating it with both auto and manual. But some manufacturers have not made it available with the manuals, and may be why the manual will go away with those auto makers.

 

[Corsair]

Best thing about automation is that when things go wrong, a corporation can blame you for improper use of said system.

 

[HotdogThud]

Another reason that manuals are going away, is that modern automatics are just plain better

Yes, I said it.

And this is coming from someone that has driven nothing but manuals since the day I got a license.

It used to be that a manual gave you:

• better mileage
• more reliability
• more performance

And a modern dual clutch box beats it in every one of those categories. That's not to say that every single automatic is better (looking at you Nissan, with your cvt), but the compelling arguments putting one as the clear winner are just no longer there.

I'm still glad that a handful of mfrs will cater to us petty enthusiasts tho (Ford, VW, BMW), because even if it is better, I do still enjoy rowing the gears. It makes driving fun

 

[North7]

What does emergency braking have to do with a manual transmission??? It’s a sensor that applies the brakes. It doesn’t do anything to the transmission.

In an emergency stop situation, the system has to have a way to disengauge the clutch, as a distracted driver will not know what happened until after its over.

 

[scubasteve]

Agreed. Ford is apparently mating it with both auto and manual. But some manufacturers have not made it available with the manuals, and may be why the manual will go away with those auto makers.

Just so if I have it correct, the crux of your criticism is that getting rid of the manual transmission (thus leading to more distracted driving) is more dangerous then perhaps mandating or making expensive safety features (auto braking, auto cruise control, etc) more available in more wide spread vehicles? I don't have specific data to show in favor or against, but logically this is where I stand.

In 2020, According to data obtained by CNBC and Edmunds, only 41 of the 327 new car models available to buy in the United States today are offered with a manual transmission—that's just 12.5 percent.

Of those vehicles even offered with a manual transmission (such as sports cars like an M2 or Porsche, and even SUVs like a Wrangler) the take rate on them at best I can tell is maybe 50-50 for an M2. Even a v8 mustang only has a MT take rate of about 30% the best I can find.

According to Cars.com data, only 1.3% of 2020 new vehicles are sold in the U.S. with a stick, down from 3.4% in 2010 and down from a peak of 34% in 1980. I can't see myself favoring the 1.3% of drivers needs over potentially getting safety features normally found in $80K vehicles mandated into a $30K vehicle that will be used by roughly 99% of US car sales going forward.

I'm on the side of more safety features/automation as others have mentioned (even as someone who owns and daily's a manual VW GTI). Manual vehicles will have their very small place and certainly do have their pros, but in the argument of distracted driving versus automation/safety features I can't see the very small minority of MT diehards getting in the way of that. Just my two cents.

 

[918v]

In an emergency stop situation, the system has to have a way to disengauge the clutch, as a distracted driver will not know what happened until after its over.

why would you want to disengage the clutch when it’s far better to cut throttle and keep the car in gear?

 

[Deleted member 18388]

Another reason that manuals are going away, is that modern automatics are just plain better

Yes, I said it.

And this is coming from someone that has driven nothing but manuals since the day I got a license.

It used to be that a manual gave you:

• better mileage
• more reliability
• more performance

And a modern dual clutch box beats it in every one of those categories. That's not to say that every single automatic is better (looking at you Nissan, with your cvt), but the compelling arguments putting one as the clear winner are just no longer there.

I'm still glad that a handful of mfrs will cater to us petty enthusiasts tho (Ford, VW, BMW), because even if it is better, I do still enjoy rowing the gears. It makes driving fun

Performance wise of course the modern autos win. But as far as repairs, the manual will be easier and cheaper. Not that most people even care. But I work on my own stuff, and the autos get too complicated for me.

 

[onetong8r]

https://fordauthority.com/2021/05/m...rced-into-retirement-as-safety-tech-advances/

I know this stated in here Ford has added "safety" features to the Bronco that will become mandatory on all vehicles in the future. Emergency braking, etc.. how autonomous is this world becoming? This is a scary article. To think that not only low take rates for manuals, but now safety requirements would get rid of it? That is ridiculous. There is less texting and driving with a manual, and less distracted driving in general with a manual. What are your thoughts?

This is another reason I'm getting the 7mt. Not ready to let go of the stick.

I equate the low take rate on the MT to:
1. ~50% are getting the Sasquatch package and you can't get a MT with Sas in '21
2. ~75% are getting the 2.7 and you can't get the MT with that engine.

If I was pushed to a 2022 I would have a 2.3 MT but I got picked for a 2021 so I'm getting a 2.3 AT. I was on the fence about which way I wanted to go and Ford helped me decide.

 

[Deleted member 18388]

Just so if I have it correct, the crux of your criticism is that getting rid of the manual transmission (thus leading to more distracted driving) is more dangerous then perhaps mandating or making expensive safety features (auto braking, auto cruise control, etc) more available in more wide spread vehicles? I don't have specific data to show in favor or against, but logically this is where I stand.

In 2020, According to data obtained by CNBC and Edmunds, only 41 of the 327 new car models available to buy in the United States today are offered with a manual transmission—that's just 12.5 percent.

Of those vehicles even offered with a manual transmission (such as sports cars like an M2 or Porsche, and even SUVs like a Wrangler) the take rate on them at best I can tell is maybe 50-50 for an M2. Even a v8 mustang only has a MT take rate of about 30% the best I can find.

According to Cars.com data, only 1.3% of 2020 new vehicles are sold in the U.S. with a stick, down from 3.4% in 2010 and down from a peak of 34% in 1980. I can't see myself favoring the 1.3% of drivers needs over potentially getting safety features normally found in $80K vehicles mandated into a $30K vehicle that will be used by roughly 99% of US car sales going forward.

I'm on the side of more safety features/automation as others have mentioned (even as someone who owns and daily's a manual VW GTI). Manual vehicles will have their very small place and certainly do have their pros, but in the argument of distracted driving versus automation/safety features I can't see the very small minority of MT diehards getting in the way of that. Just my two cents.

I agree with what you're saying. But why couldn't the auto makers add safety features to the manuals, rather than get rid of them completely? Also, i never said getting rid of manuals "is more dangerous".... where did you get that from?

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