New Bumpers from TURN Offroad

[Fordified1]

Sadly, I concur. I love the looks and the intent of the design, but it's not executed very well. Mine rattles like a biotch on anything but a smooth paved road. I really wanted to like it. In reality, I will tolerate it until I can figure out how to fix the shake/rattle/roll - or - I'll replace it with something proven.

Well damn . I had high hopes for this much more affordable swing out bumper. Sounds like if they just made the bumper out of thicker material (at least on the passenger side) it would stiffen it up. That’s a lot of leverage on that pivot area.

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[Arokcrwlr]

Well damn . I had high hopes for this much more affordable swing out bumper. Sounds like if they just made the bumper out of thicker material (at least on the passenger side) it would stiffen it up. That’s a lot of leverage on that pivot area.

I don't see any flex in the pivot area on mine. I think the main issue is the heim arrangement. I would really like to see how the Expedition One bumper does the heims as it sounds like that bumper doesn't have the rattle issue.

 

[Hedrock]

I’ve had this bumper on for about a month now and I gotta be honest… it’s not very good. The thing shakes massively even on the freeway. I even bought extended bump stops to try and have there be more contact when the gate is closed to stop the rattling and it’s helped, but still shakes.

I do like the actual tire carrier portion that holds the spare, but the spindle and thin metal that it’s welded to are not strong enough. And the double heim joints just don’t seem to travel along the same paths so either one is too tight at some point. I’ve spent maybe 12 hours total making adjustments and have it functional, but it feels like it’s gonna break at some point on some washboard roads.

I had the expedition one before this so can directly compare and their design is miles ahead of turns.

Why did you get rid of the E1 bumper, if you don’t mind my asking?

 

[Dusty]

I don't see any flex in the pivot area on mine. I think the main issue is the heim arrangement. I would really like to see how the Expedition One bumper does the heims as it sounds like that bumper doesn't have the rattle issue.

I'm currently installing this bumper and having similar problems with the two turnbuckles. The problem is, if the axis of the tire carrier hinge and the tailgate hinges aren't exactly parallel, the turnbuckles are "out of phase" for lack of a better term. One wants to shorten while the other wants to lengthen as the tailgate swings , and the entire assembly binds up with the gate half open. And there's not enough adjustability, even by shimming to tilt the bumper as they show in the video, to get the two axis's close enough to parallel.

I used to work for Poison Spyder and we had a similar setup for Jeeps. Our engineers must have run into the same issues so our version only had one turnbuckle instead of two. Sort of like a 3-legged stool, it will always sit correctly on uneven ground, while a 4-legged stool will not, if the floor isn't completely flat (like the need for exactly parallel pivot axis's). So I've set it up temporarily with just the bottom turnbuckle and it opens and closes with no bind. But I'm not sure if the location and strength of the mounting tabs are adequate for running a single turnbuckle.

Other than this I really like the design.

 

[userdude]

I'm currently installing this bumper and having similar problems with the two turnbuckles. The problem is, if the axis of the tire carrier hinge and the tailgate hinges aren't exactly parallel, the turnbuckles are "out of phase" for lack of a better term. One wants to shorten while the other wants to lengthen as the tailgate swings , and the entire assembly binds up with the gate half open. And there's not enough adjustability, even by shimming to tilt the bumper as they show in the video, to get the two axis's close enough to parallel.

I used to work for Poison Spyder and we had a similar setup for Jeeps. Our engineers must have run into the same issues so our version only had one turnbuckle instead of two. Sort of like a 3-legged stool, it will always sit correctly on uneven ground, while a 4-legged stool will not, if the floor isn't completely flat (like the need for exactly parallel pivot axis's). So I've set it up temporarily with just the bottom turnbuckle and it opens and closes with no bind. But I'm not sure if the location and strength of the mounting tabs are adequate for running a single turnbuckle.

Other than this I really like the design.

The technical term is "cattywampus".

I actually thought this was a made up word, then I looked it up...

 

[Fordified1]

I'm currently installing this bumper and having similar problems with the two turnbuckles. The problem is, if the axis of the tire carrier hinge and the tailgate hinges aren't exactly parallel, the turnbuckles are "out of phase" for lack of a better term. One wants to shorten while the other wants to lengthen as the tailgate swings , and the entire assembly binds up with the gate half open. And there's not enough adjustability, even by shimming to tilt the bumper as they show in the video, to get the two axis's close enough to parallel.

I used to work for Poison Spyder and we had a similar setup for Jeeps. Our engineers must have run into the same issues so our version only had one turnbuckle instead of two. Sort of like a 3-legged stool, it will always sit correctly on uneven ground, while a 4-legged stool will not, if the floor isn't completely flat (like the need for exactly parallel pivot axis's). So I've set it up temporarily with just the bottom turnbuckle and it opens and closes with no bind. But I'm not sure if the location and strength of the mounting tabs are adequate for running a single turnbuckle.

Other than this I really like the design.

You’re the guy to ask this… Could somebody that is a fabricator probably work on this thing and make it a good bumper? I mean the price is great and if it needs to be tweaked so be it, that’s what you get when you farm stuff out to China. It’s like half the price of anything else out there I believe. Yeah I wouldn’t trust one set of those tabs to hold it. Those are pretty thin and not double-shear.

But someone up above mentioned that it bounces up and down, that means something is flexing. I assumed because of all the leverage on the end of that bumper that it’s needs to be beefed up down there also.

 

[Dusty]

You’re the guy to ask this… Could somebody that is a fabricator probably work on this thing and make it a good bumper? I mean the price is great and if it needs to be tweaked so be it, that’s what you get when you farm stuff out to China. It’s like half the price of anything else out there I believe. Yeah I wouldn’t trust one set of those tabs to hold it. Those are pretty thin and not double-shear.

But someone up above mentioned that it bounces up and down, that means something is flexing. I assumed because of all the leverage on the end of that bumper that it’s needs to be beefed up down there also.

I think the key to keeping things from bouncing and rattling is in making sure the tire carrier is pressed as firmly as possible into the rubber bumpers. While I haven't driven with it yet with my temporary single-turnbuckle hack (I'm now in the middle of the camera re-wire which is another ordeal LOL), the spindle and how it is integrated into the bumper *seems* strong enough to me. The bumper doesn't need to be made out of 1/4-inch plate if the box design of the bumper is rigid enough. It seems like it would be. But if the weight of the tire is flopping around and creating massive inertia because it's not being tightly held against the tailgate rubber bumpers, I can see how it can over-stress the pivot/spindle's attachment to the bumper.

So if I was to get out the plasma and welder and make some modifications, I would focus more on the tailgate plate and turnbuckle configuration. First thing I would do is switch to a single turnbuckle and move it to a position that's between the lower (factory) bumpers and the upper bumper that comes on the Turn tailgate plate. But I would cheat it closer to the lower bumpers as they're more substantial. On the tailgate side you could do this without welding by fabricating a separate bracket out of thicker material, that incorporates the two upper-left and two bottom-left mounting bolts of the tailgate plate, with double-shear tabs to hold the heim. On the tire swing you'd have to weld on a couple of tabs, and without it in front of me at the moment I'm not able to visualize where they would land so it may be simply welding on tabs or it may require a more complicated weldment. I think the heim/turnbuckle assembly that Turn uses is beefy enough to use just one. But it would need to be relocated and mounted in double-shear at both ends.

 

[Fordified1]

I think the key to keeping things from bouncing and rattling is in making sure the tire carrier is pressed as firmly as possible into the rubber bumpers. While I haven't driven with it yet with my temporary single-turnbuckle hack (I'm now in the middle of the camera re-wire which is another ordeal LOL), the spindle and how it is integrated into the bumper *seems* strong enough to me. The bumper doesn't need to be made out of 1/4-inch plate if the box design of the bumper is rigid enough. It seems like it would be. But if the weight of the tire is flopping around and creating massive inertia because it's not being tightly held against the tailgate rubber bumpers, I can see how it can over-stress the pivot/spindle's attachment to the bumper.

So if I was to get out the plasma and welder and make some modifications, I would focus more on the tailgate plate and turnbuckle configuration. First thing I would do is switch to a single turnbuckle and move it to a position that's between the lower (factory) bumpers and the upper bumper that comes on the Turn tailgate plate. But I would cheat it closer to the lower bumpers as they're more substantial. On the tailgate side you could do this without welding by fabricating a separate bracket out of thicker material, that incorporates the two upper-left and two bottom-left mounting bolts of the tailgate plate, with double-shear tabs to hold the heim. On the tire swing you'd have to weld on a couple of tabs, and without it in front of me at the moment I'm not able to visualize where they would land so it may be simply welding on tabs or it may require a more complicated weldment. I think the heim/turnbuckle assembly that Turn uses is beefy enough to use just one. But it would need to be relocated and mounted in double-shear at both ends.

Thanks! Are you putting this bumper install on your YT channel?

 

[mvilla]

I think the key to keeping things from bouncing and rattling is in making sure the tire carrier is pressed as firmly as possible into the rubber bumpers. While I haven't driven with it yet with my temporary single-turnbuckle hack (I'm now in the middle of the camera re-wire which is another ordeal LOL), the spindle and how it is integrated into the bumper *seems* strong enough to me. The bumper doesn't need to be made out of 1/4-inch plate if the box design of the bumper is rigid enough. It seems like it would be. But if the weight of the tire is flopping around and creating massive inertia because it's not being tightly held against the tailgate rubber bumpers, I can see how it can over-stress the pivot/spindle's attachment to the bumper.

So if I was to get out the plasma and welder and make some modifications, I would focus more on the tailgate plate and turnbuckle configuration. First thing I would do is switch to a single turnbuckle and move it to a position that's between the lower (factory) bumpers and the upper bumper that comes on the Turn tailgate plate. But I would cheat it closer to the lower bumpers as they're more substantial. On the tailgate side you could do this without welding by fabricating a separate bracket out of thicker material, that incorporates the two upper-left and two bottom-left mounting bolts of the tailgate plate, with double-shear tabs to hold the heim. On the tire swing you'd have to weld on a couple of tabs, and without it in front of me at the moment I'm not able to visualize where they would land so it may be simply welding on tabs or it may require a more complicated weldment. I think the heim/turnbuckle assembly that Turn uses is beefy enough to use just one. But it would need to be relocated and mounted in double-shear at both ends.

I don’t think you can get the carrier pressed firmly enough to stop the wobble. I’ll take a picture but I replaced the turn bump stop with the factory one and ordered extended bump stops for the bottom ones. They make contact with the carrier about 12 inches from closing the door, and even then I still get wobble.

 

[Dusty]

Thanks! Are you putting this bumper install on your YT channel?

I haven't been filming the install.

 

[Arokcrwlr]

I'm currently installing this bumper and having similar problems with the two turnbuckles. The problem is, if the axis of the tire carrier hinge and the tailgate hinges aren't exactly parallel, the turnbuckles are "out of phase" for lack of a better term. One wants to shorten while the other wants to lengthen as the tailgate swings , and the entire assembly binds up with the gate half open. And there's not enough adjustability, even by shimming to tilt the bumper as they show in the video, to get the two axis's close enough to parallel.

I used to work for Poison Spyder and we had a similar setup for Jeeps. Our engineers must have run into the same issues so our version only had one turnbuckle instead of two. Sort of like a 3-legged stool, it will always sit correctly on uneven ground, while a 4-legged stool will not, if the floor isn't completely flat (like the need for exactly parallel pivot axis's). So I've set it up temporarily with just the bottom turnbuckle and it opens and closes with no bind. But I'm not sure if the location and strength of the mounting tabs are adequate for running a single turnbuckle.

Other than this I really like the design.

I'm looking forward to see what you come up with. I've dicked around with it so much that any more and I'll end up removing it and throwing it off the bluff in my back yard. I'm frustrated because I sold my $3500 SRQ bumper at a 50% discount and bought this one hoping it would be serviceable. I still wish someone would break down the Expedition One design and how it differs from the Turn design as I understand that they both use heims to attach to the tailgate...

 

[Dusty]

I'm looking forward to see what you come up with. I've dicked around with it so much that any more and I'll end up removing it and throwing it off the bluff in my back yard. I'm frustrated because I sold my $3500 SRQ bumper at a 50% discount and bought this one hoping it would be serviceable. I still wish someone would break down the Expedition One design and how it differs from the Turn design as I understand that they both use heims to attach to the tailgate...

I wasn't familiar with their design so I looked it up and had a peek at their install instructions. They use a single linkage but it looks like it uses bushings at either end instead of heims. The key though, is a single link rather than two, like I mentioned earlier. I'm not sure I like their use of bushings though. The bushings will still need to deflect a little bit if your tire swing and tailgate pivots are out of parallel, whereas a single turnbuckle with heims wouldn't bind at all, as long as the offset doesn't exceed the misalignment limit of the heim joints. That said, a single link with bushings would certainly allow more variance in the pivot alignment than two turnbuckles with heims, and possibly reduce NVH.

 

[mvilla]

So here’s where my bump stops first contact the carrier when closing the door. And the second photo is how compressed they are when fully closed. And it still wobbles lol

 

[Dusty]

So here’s where my bump stops first contact the carrier when closing the door. And the second photo is how compressed they are when fully closed. And it still wobbles lol

How tight is the tire to the carrier frame? I see a lot of daylight between the side lugs but I can't quite tell whether the tire is pulled against the frame enough to compress the rubber.

Also, your lower heim joint bolt is hanging on for dear life:

I realize you had to use the longer bolt and spacer in order to compensate for the vertical misalignment of the turnbuckle. But that single shear tab is no match for that long lever. It's trying to hold the inertia of the tire while also fighting the compression of the bumpers, not to mention fighting the other turnbuckle as it tries to push in the opposite direction. Not saying this will solve it but you could help things a little bit by moving the heim on the tire carrier side to the top of the tab, and delete that long bolt and spacer on the tailgate side. I know its a tight fit for the heim and nut on the top side of the carrier tab. I had to grind down part of the top of the nut (that holds the nylok insert) and use loctite.

 

[mvilla]

How tight is the tire to the carrier frame? I see a lot of daylight between the side lugs but I can't quite tell whether the tire is pulled against the frame enough to compress the rubber.

Also, your lower heim joint bolt is hanging on for dear life:

I realize you had to use the longer bolt and spacer in order to compensate for the vertical misalignment of the turnbuckle. But that single shear tab is no match for that long lever. It's trying to hold the inertia of the tire while also fighting the compression of the bumpers, not to mention fighting the other turnbuckle as it tries to push in the opposite direction. Not saying this will solve it but you could help things a little bit by moving the heim on the tire carrier side to the top of the tab, and delete that long bolt and spacer on the tailgate side. I know its a tight fit for the heim and nut on the top side of the carrier tab. I had to grind down part of the top of the nut (that holds the nylok insert) and use loctite.

I’ll have to double check but I think I had the carrier positioned as far back as possible. I’m running a 0 offset 17x8.5 wheel with 37x12.50r17 tire. If I can squeeze it a little more I’m sure that would help.

As for the lower heim, I’ll have to try that. Did you consider using a jam nut instead of grinding down the nylock nut?

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