Perch Collars v. Eibach Coilovers. Questions

[Ford2201]

I originally posted this in General Discussion. Thought may I would post here as well


I purchased a 2022 non-sasquatch black diamond with the 2.7 engine. Absolutely love it. As most of us on here I wanted a little lift and larger tires. So on went the SVC 2” perch collars and BGG 285/75R17 on the stock rims. First observation with the collars was no more brake dive in the front end. Also noticed a stiffer ride. The added height from the lift and tires put me where I wanted to be.

As the miles added up and more off-road equipment was added I noticed the rear looks lower. About 1/2” -3/4” lover than the front ( measured from top to tire to flare and also ground to flare). I realized that the E rated BFG’s are stiffer so I lowered my tire pressure to 34 psi. Still seems stiff and speed bumps feel like the tire is “pushed” down as you ride over them.

I’ve searched and read dozens of threads on there regarding lifts, suspension, modifications and ride expectations. In my mind I think I’d like to go to Eibach truck pro 2 coil overs. But as I read I developed more questions than thorough understanding of which way I wanted to go.

The SVC collars “preload” the spring and generates lift. And from what I can feel adds stiffness. Is that a fair analysis?

the Eibach coilovers are adjustable height. Does that make them similar in “preload” like the collars? Many member have said they eliminated brake dive (I like that) and they can be adjusted to level out or slightly “rake” the stance ( also like). My question is will the ride still feel stiff? Or do the springs soften the ride? Should I go lower psi in

I should note I’m east coast. My off-roading consists of beach driving and forest fire service roads. I don’t rock crawl nor do I plan to. The rear locker is sufficient for my needs (beach and forest).

My wish is to have around 2-2.5” of lift. Slight rake. A comfortable ride. Doubtful I’d go bigger than 35” tires in the future. Most likely to stay with 285/75.

I installed the collars myself and would do the same with the Eibachs. I’m comfortable with wrenching. But total understanding of how to meet my desires without doing it half assed or wrong is where I look for help.

Any info and clarification would be greatly appreciated.

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[Broncobro04]

Perch collars add stiffness, you have the ride idea. The reason being, like you mentioned, is they preload the spring, which in turn will require more force to compress the spring further, resulting in a stiffer ride.

For example, a loose example but it should get the point across. Take a 250lb/in spring. It takes 250 lbs to compress the spring 1 inch. To compress it 2 inches, it takes 500lbs. So it’s kind of like you have 500lbs of load on the springs already which means you would need even more (750lbs) to compress the spring another inch when, say, you go over a speed bump, etc. It’s important to note that this is different than an increased spring rate, as that is more about the stiffness of the spring itself rather than how much preload is applied. Preload doesn’t change the spring rate, it just shifts the range where the spring starts working, which can make the suspension feel stiffer without changing the spring’s fundamental characteristics.

The eibachs, and other coilovers that are height adjustable, work the same way. You increase preload to gain ride height. This will make the ride stiffer, but typically perch collars add a good bit of preload and usually have a stiffer ride than coilovers with increased preload. The good thing about adjustable height, is that you see now that your rear end is sagging, so you don’t have to buy a different lift or springs, you can just adjust accordingly. If your preload matches the weight you have, it shouldn’t ride too stiff. It’s hard to nail it the first time. Keep in mind springs do settle after a while and you can lose a bit of ride height, which is probably why your rear started to sag. Same thing happened to me after a while when I had perch collars.

 

[Ford2201]

Thanks for your feedback. Helps a lot.
So as I understand you the clovers are same principle however the springs are designed for that preload and thus “softer” than collars. I’ve seen threads about the HD springs for Eibach. Would that then take me back to a stiffer ride?

I know Eibach has them dialed in Out of the box for my set up. And I can adjust for sag from there. But I don’t want to spend the $ and be right back where I am now.
Also, how much does tire pressure figure into the ride? E rated tires are stiff. I run at 34 psi ( probably need to do a chalk test). I suppose I could go lower but then run the issue with TPMS alerts.

 

[Broncobro04]

More or less, yeah. About the ride “softness”. I wouldn’t necessarily do the HD springs for your build. It doesnt look like you have much added weight, and I would consider your bronco to be stock weight. The heavy springs without enough weight will be really stiff and you’ll likely have very little preload. With adjustable coilovers, the time for heavier springs is when you are maxed out on preload but still sagging.

As for tires, yeah I’d do the chalk test. The stiffer tires will add road feel but I don’t feel that the incorrect tire wear and reduced mpg is a worthy tradeoff for airing down for slightly more comfort. The shocks and springs will make the major difference

 

[Ford2201]

Thanks brother. Agreed, there’s not a lot of weight back there. Mostly stock with some tools and recovery gear. The odd thing to me is after the collars on all 4 corners it was slightly raked. After a year of use it looks sagged to me. Measuring the best I can on fairly level pavement shows around 1/2-3/4” different front to back. About 1/4” side to side but that could be the pavement. Either way I can see it squat slightly and do not like it.
I have also seen this from ARB

Rear Coil Spring Trim Packer

Seems a way to retain the stock shocks but would do nothing to reduce the the front end stiffness

I guess this is driving me towards the eibachs.

 

[PWillette]

If you do not plan to add a front bumper and/or winch the Eibach coilovers with standard springs will be fine. Out of the box they are set to roughly 2" of lift over squatch so you'll probably see 3" of lift over standard BD. I would recommend installing the Eibachs as-is out of the box and put some miles on before making any adjustments. I actually ended up lowering mine about 1/2". Also, if you plan to be 2" of lift or more I'd plan to replace the UCAs and look into an adjustable rear panhard rod and panhard relocation bracket...these will enable proper alignment and eliminate rear bump steer.

 

[Broncobro04]

Thanks brother. Agreed, there’s not a lot of weight back there. Mostly stock with some tools and recovery gear. The odd thing to me is after the collars on all 4 corners it was slightly raked. After a year of use it looks sagged to me. Measuring the best I can on fairly level pavement shows around 1/2-3/4” different front to back. About 1/4” side to side but that could be the pavement. Either way I can see it squat slightly and do not like it.
I have also seen this from ARB

Rear Coil Spring Trim Packer

Seems a way to retain the stock shocks but would do nothing to reduce the the front end stiffness

I guess this is driving me towards the eibachs.

The eibachs are nice, and a lot of people love them. A good alternative though, and much cheaper, would be 2” spacers. They retain stock ride quality, give you the lift you want, and they are safe for nonsasquatch broncos. You won’t alter the geometry to an unsafe level

 

[Ford2201]

If you do not plan to add a front bumper and/or winch the Eibach coilovers with standard springs will be fine. Out of the box they are set to roughly 2" of lift over squatch so you'll probably see 3" of lift over standard BD. I would recommend installing the Eibachs as-is out of the box and put some miles on before making any adjustments. I actually ended up lowering mine about 1/2". Also, if you plan to be 2" of lift or more I'd plan to replace the UCAs and look into an adjustable rear panhard rod and panhard relocation bracket...these will enable proper alignment and eliminate rear bump steer.

no plans for heavy add ons up front. And not wanting to make an upgrade that requires additional ungrades. I read that the Eibach don’t require anything else with the out of the box set up. Just looking for about 2” lift. Maintain the 33’s maybe go to 35’s down the road

thanks

 

[Ford2201]

The eibachs are nice, and a lot of people love them. A good alternative though, and much cheaper, would be 2” spacers. They retain stock ride quality, give you the lift you want, and they are safe for nonsasquatch broncos. You won’t alter the geometry to an unsafe level

You’re a wealth of info bud. And early on I considered the top hat spacers for 2” lift. Had similar on my F150. They were fine for my level of off-road. But. What I didn’t like was the nose dive on braking. Researching the collars revealed they solve that. And they did. But as has been pointed out it was installed empty and has now settled. I don’t carry a shit load of weight. Bigger tire, recovery gear, bottle jack and hi-lift. Some blocking. Tool roll. Not a lot. But it definitely sags. I’ve read several other threads similar to my situation. There’s an ARB spring trim kit that sit on top of the spring. Have been researching that a bit on here.
I’m not in a rush as there’s snow in the ground here now. But definitely want to solve the sag

 

[mpeugeot]

no plans for heavy add ons up front. And not wanting to make an upgrade that requires additional ungrades. I read that the Eibach don’t require anything else with the out of the box set up. Just looking for about 2” lift. Maintain the 33’s maybe go to 35’s down the road

thanks

I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the front ride height with and without my 12k winch (around 150# with all the additional plates etc), but it does lift the front a bit more on acceleration. The Eibach Pro Truck 2.0 suspension is pretty soft, so some extra preload would likely not make it as stiff as what you have.

They look like they gave me a solid 2" of lift over the non-sasquatch Bilstein's, but in fairness I have not measured it. I have a ton of tools in the back, a 315/70R17 BFG KO2 on the back (and all the way around).

TLDR - I don't think that you can go wrong with the Eibach Pro Truck 2.0 suspension in your case.

 

[Ford2201]

I honestly couldn't tell the difference between the front ride height with and without my 12k winch (around 150# with all the additional plates etc), but it does lift the front a bit more on acceleration. The Eibach Pro Truck 2.0 suspension is pretty soft, so some extra preload would likely not make it as stiff as what you have.

They look like they gave me a solid 2" of lift over the non-sasquatch Bilstein's, but in fairness I have not measured it. I have a ton of tools in the back, a 315/70R17 BFG KO2 on the back (and all the way around).

TLDR - I don't think that you can go wrong with the Eibach Pro Truck 2.0 suspension in your case.

I appreciate your input. Have followed many of your posts and insight.
So you put the eibachs on a nonsasquatch obx? Did you do UCA also? I don’t have more than 150# in the back plus a 33” spare tire. It definitely sits lower. That’s what is like to address.
My novice seat of the pants evaluation tells me it’s stiff over speed bumps and washboard trails. Not hitting the bump stops but feels like it if that make sense.
If the eibachs soften that while adding 2” and limiting brake dive I’m all in. After these 285/75 BFG I’m considering 35’s in a narrow width. Keeping the BD steelies

thanks

 

[Dover157]

Just had the eibachs with standard springs installed on my 22 non sas BD the day after Christmas. Had previously put narrow 35” tires on the factory steelies. Ride ins noticeably softer that the factory shocks. I have a winch mounted out front and still don’t have as much brake dive as before. Made the mistake of not doing UCA’s and had to lower the fronts 1/4” to even out the handling as the adjustments were maxed out. Definitely recommend this change and new UCA’s

 

[Ford2201]

Just had the eibachs with standard springs installed on my 22 non sas BD the day after Christmas. Had previously put narrow 35” tires on the factory steelies. Ride ins noticeably softer that the factory shocks. I have a winch mounted out front and still don’t have as much brake dive as before. Made the mistake of not doing UCA’s and had to lower the fronts 1/4” to even out the handling as the adjustments were maxed out. Definitely recommend this change and new UCA’s

nice rig. What tires did you go with? You ended up with approximately what 1-1/2” - 1-3/4” lift over stock

needed UCA to get the alignment dialed in?

 

[Brian_B]

Try drop your tires down to around 31 psi — will make a big difference in ride softness

Can Forscan the TPMS alert down a bit if it keeps flagging on it

 

[Ford2201]

Try drop your tires down to around 31 psi — will make a big difference in ride softness

Can Forscan the TPMS alert down a bit if it keeps flagging on it

yes that’s the next item I think I’m going to need to get. TPMS and double honk too if the list

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