- First Name
- Mitch
- Joined
- Mar 11, 2021
- Threads
- 26
- Messages
- 2,310
- Reaction score
- 4,013
- Location
- Cape Cod, MA, formerly Flagstaff, AZ
- Vehicle(s)
- 2021 2 Door Badlands manual, 2021 Tacoma TRD OR
- Your Bronco Model
- Badlands
Thanks for your response. Iām going to break up your quote to respond to each point that jumps out. Iāll put my responses in red.
I wonder from a cost perspective how much your employer would save on his leased fleet (or maybe they are financed and he sends to auction) if he better maintained them to cycle out every 10yrs vs every 5 i.e. hot under carriage bath after each plow. Just a thought from one employer to another.
10 years wouldnāt work for us, the trucks would get too beat up and wouldnāt look presentable anymore. We service high end clients, so having hoopty trucks sitting on their multi million dollar property isnāt acceptable. Unfortunately our labor force and even most members of management donāt take the time to clean or maintain the vehicles. Oil changes are frequently missed, trucks are left dirty, things are driven until they break, etc. Iām making changes, but labor is so hard to retain there are no consequences for policy violations. The cleanliness of the trucks disgusts me so I am bringing in a junior mechanic who wants the OT to clean trucks this season, heās doing a deep clean on the idle trucks during the winter months. I will tag that OT to our marketing budget rather than the shop payroll.
Fortunately our 5 year cycle does retain higher resale value because the trucks arenāt that old or that beat up. Past 100K the maintenance costs increase and the resale drops significantly. Our CFO has a significant say in the cycle time as there are tax implications to our operations. We have been financing for 4 years or doing TRAC leases that are paid down to $300 after 4 years. We build significant equity that we roll into the replacement vehicle. Pre covid I was getting about 40-45% of MSRP for trade in, now itās 60% or better. I have sold a few surplus trucks privately and sold some to Carmax this year if the value was better than trade in.
Industry publications advocate for cycle times as short as one year. We spend some time and money lettering, upfitting, etc, so I donāt want to cycle that quickly as my shop team couldnāt keep up.
Body aside, which honestly doesn't matter if the rest is rusted, you admit after 5 years those 20% of plow trucks are toast with rust and "cycled out". Private owners dont always have that luxury. By that point many of them just paid off their car after 5yrs of diligent payments, and most will want a break. So buying another car to add more payments doesn't make good financial sense and so on "wash, rinse, repeat". So either protect it any way you can or lease it do nothing then dump it 3-5yrs later which many wont do bc the bronco is more than the average shit box to most of its owners. Even with its imperfections and high volume. Nothing is perfect.
Ford body, in many places but not all, is aluminum. But not 100%. I know this bc my company is working on magnetic body armor for bronco to protect paint job vs expensive PPF. The entire rear fenders + top of front fenders are NOT aluminum!! See pics of giant magnet clinging to my rear bronco fender (beta phase). If driving salted roads daily during season for years the plastic liner in wheel wells will at only protect it for so long then at some point I predict BODY rust will form in those fenders. More than likely it will seep in through the holes on sides where fender flares attach to body. Then spread like wildfire.
Side note. In the long run badlands trim has way better residual value potential than a base. Nice try though. Maybe get the 4 door next time too, appeals to more buyers bc it has more space for gear and family. Like buying a 2bed home vs 4bed home...4 bed worth more in many/most cases unless its a 2bed penthouse in new york or miami.
The residual value isnāt something I made up, here is the chart. 4 door is worth more than 2 door and lower trims lose less value as a percentage over time.
Broncos are massed produced vehicles, yes, and so is the new corvette and most all other cars. 1990s build quality aside, which some were pretty great, my stealth mentioned above was #54 of 57 last production year. And the Spyder Vr4 was only one of 800+ units ever built for entire globe in only a 2yr period. Point being it doesn't matter if mass produced or not. If you take care of your vehicle it will last. Period. If you don't it won't. Period. However, if you lease it and beat it to hell it wont last more than 3-5-8 good years which I imagine you would pick (only speculating based on your write up) only 3 year lifespan since you want to lease.
I leased the Tacoma because of a decent subsidized Toyota lease, residual value in the 70% range means a $42K MSRP truck will cost us $14K over the 39 months. There is piece of mind knowing that I donāt have to worry about corrosion. My Bronco is sitting in the garage for the past month with 14.7 miles on the odometer because I bought it and wonāt drive it until I apply Fluid Film or similar. I do care about my vehicles, but the lease is a specific case where I donāt have to.
No offense here, but its folks like you and in some ways your employer who prove my point by continuing to pump known rust buckets into society. Why not keep em as winter beaters until wheels fall off...at least the personal vehicles. The folks buying used trucks need a good working work or family or commute vehicle. But some sadly will experience major failures much sooner than the mfg intended in this day n age which is way longer than 3-8 years. If maintained!!
You are correct that our vehicles become someone elseās burden as they age and rot. Itās part of the business cycle and we pay for it accordingly, and Iām sure those people get a decent deal on our castoffs.
Have you ever heard of the term "forever cars"? These are cars like for example 4Runner or GMC 2500 or frankly many other vehicles these days. If properly and routinely maintained and not a lemon they will go on for at least the rest of our lifetimes. Not 3-8 years. The service life of every vehicle all depends on how well it was maintained. Period. Many trash their cars like my brother lol. Not me. He constantly fixing while I'm constantly laughing.
I agree that my personal cars could be āforever carsā. My 81 Ford E-150 that my folks purchased new when I was 5 was 37 years old with over 200K miles when I sold it in 2018. I put less than $2000 in maintenance into it from 1995 to 2018, including a set of tires. The 300 I-6 engine, manual trans, 9ā axle were supremely reliable. I sold it to a guy who is still driving it now. I sold it for $1000 because I didnāt have time to replace the clutch and entire brake system, but I still miss it.
My company trucks are different, they are seen as disposable tools that will be replaced as needed. A single owner operator with one or a few trucks will usually do the maximum to keep things nice. We have 140 trucks and itās just not possible for the mechanics or myself to save them all. My assigned work truck is clean and well maintained, I try to set the example for everyone else.
I financed my badlands and its used for work/demo vehicle + preparing to add it as a RSA recovery vehicle here in the desert AND surrounding mountains through a provider I represent. In addition to other ventures and projects. RSA = Roadside Assist. Unless I have major mechanical issues, I dont ever plan on selling mine bc its how I make a living and it will never be worth zero. UNLESS rusted to hell and not maintained but even then I could maybe get $1000 for it 20yrs from now. If lucky and tough sell if private party. Must be kept tip top for me, my family and my customers. So I have more to lose by not maintaining my fleet than the average guy, this is why I'm passionate about the rust topic.
Either way we agree, once rust starts that's it. Rust spreads. Why its called cancer. *Thanks for confirming my points on northern rust.
Thanks for the conversation.
I wonder from a cost perspective how much your employer would save on his leased fleet (or maybe they are financed and he sends to auction) if he better maintained them to cycle out every 10yrs vs every 5 i.e. hot under carriage bath after each plow. Just a thought from one employer to another.
10 years wouldnāt work for us, the trucks would get too beat up and wouldnāt look presentable anymore. We service high end clients, so having hoopty trucks sitting on their multi million dollar property isnāt acceptable. Unfortunately our labor force and even most members of management donāt take the time to clean or maintain the vehicles. Oil changes are frequently missed, trucks are left dirty, things are driven until they break, etc. Iām making changes, but labor is so hard to retain there are no consequences for policy violations. The cleanliness of the trucks disgusts me so I am bringing in a junior mechanic who wants the OT to clean trucks this season, heās doing a deep clean on the idle trucks during the winter months. I will tag that OT to our marketing budget rather than the shop payroll.
Fortunately our 5 year cycle does retain higher resale value because the trucks arenāt that old or that beat up. Past 100K the maintenance costs increase and the resale drops significantly. Our CFO has a significant say in the cycle time as there are tax implications to our operations. We have been financing for 4 years or doing TRAC leases that are paid down to $300 after 4 years. We build significant equity that we roll into the replacement vehicle. Pre covid I was getting about 40-45% of MSRP for trade in, now itās 60% or better. I have sold a few surplus trucks privately and sold some to Carmax this year if the value was better than trade in.
Industry publications advocate for cycle times as short as one year. We spend some time and money lettering, upfitting, etc, so I donāt want to cycle that quickly as my shop team couldnāt keep up.
Body aside, which honestly doesn't matter if the rest is rusted, you admit after 5 years those 20% of plow trucks are toast with rust and "cycled out". Private owners dont always have that luxury. By that point many of them just paid off their car after 5yrs of diligent payments, and most will want a break. So buying another car to add more payments doesn't make good financial sense and so on "wash, rinse, repeat". So either protect it any way you can or lease it do nothing then dump it 3-5yrs later which many wont do bc the bronco is more than the average shit box to most of its owners. Even with its imperfections and high volume. Nothing is perfect.
Ford body, in many places but not all, is aluminum. But not 100%. I know this bc my company is working on magnetic body armor for bronco to protect paint job vs expensive PPF. The entire rear fenders + top of front fenders are NOT aluminum!! See pics of giant magnet clinging to my rear bronco fender (beta phase). If driving salted roads daily during season for years the plastic liner in wheel wells will at only protect it for so long then at some point I predict BODY rust will form in those fenders. More than likely it will seep in through the holes on sides where fender flares attach to body. Then spread like wildfire.
Side note. In the long run badlands trim has way better residual value potential than a base. Nice try though. Maybe get the 4 door next time too, appeals to more buyers bc it has more space for gear and family. Like buying a 2bed home vs 4bed home...4 bed worth more in many/most cases unless its a 2bed penthouse in new york or miami.
The residual value isnāt something I made up, here is the chart. 4 door is worth more than 2 door and lower trims lose less value as a percentage over time.
Broncos are massed produced vehicles, yes, and so is the new corvette and most all other cars. 1990s build quality aside, which some were pretty great, my stealth mentioned above was #54 of 57 last production year. And the Spyder Vr4 was only one of 800+ units ever built for entire globe in only a 2yr period. Point being it doesn't matter if mass produced or not. If you take care of your vehicle it will last. Period. If you don't it won't. Period. However, if you lease it and beat it to hell it wont last more than 3-5-8 good years which I imagine you would pick (only speculating based on your write up) only 3 year lifespan since you want to lease.
I leased the Tacoma because of a decent subsidized Toyota lease, residual value in the 70% range means a $42K MSRP truck will cost us $14K over the 39 months. There is piece of mind knowing that I donāt have to worry about corrosion. My Bronco is sitting in the garage for the past month with 14.7 miles on the odometer because I bought it and wonāt drive it until I apply Fluid Film or similar. I do care about my vehicles, but the lease is a specific case where I donāt have to.
No offense here, but its folks like you and in some ways your employer who prove my point by continuing to pump known rust buckets into society. Why not keep em as winter beaters until wheels fall off...at least the personal vehicles. The folks buying used trucks need a good working work or family or commute vehicle. But some sadly will experience major failures much sooner than the mfg intended in this day n age which is way longer than 3-8 years. If maintained!!
You are correct that our vehicles become someone elseās burden as they age and rot. Itās part of the business cycle and we pay for it accordingly, and Iām sure those people get a decent deal on our castoffs.
Have you ever heard of the term "forever cars"? These are cars like for example 4Runner or GMC 2500 or frankly many other vehicles these days. If properly and routinely maintained and not a lemon they will go on for at least the rest of our lifetimes. Not 3-8 years. The service life of every vehicle all depends on how well it was maintained. Period. Many trash their cars like my brother lol. Not me. He constantly fixing while I'm constantly laughing.
I agree that my personal cars could be āforever carsā. My 81 Ford E-150 that my folks purchased new when I was 5 was 37 years old with over 200K miles when I sold it in 2018. I put less than $2000 in maintenance into it from 1995 to 2018, including a set of tires. The 300 I-6 engine, manual trans, 9ā axle were supremely reliable. I sold it to a guy who is still driving it now. I sold it for $1000 because I didnāt have time to replace the clutch and entire brake system, but I still miss it.
My company trucks are different, they are seen as disposable tools that will be replaced as needed. A single owner operator with one or a few trucks will usually do the maximum to keep things nice. We have 140 trucks and itās just not possible for the mechanics or myself to save them all. My assigned work truck is clean and well maintained, I try to set the example for everyone else.
I financed my badlands and its used for work/demo vehicle + preparing to add it as a RSA recovery vehicle here in the desert AND surrounding mountains through a provider I represent. In addition to other ventures and projects. RSA = Roadside Assist. Unless I have major mechanical issues, I dont ever plan on selling mine bc its how I make a living and it will never be worth zero. UNLESS rusted to hell and not maintained but even then I could maybe get $1000 for it 20yrs from now. If lucky and tough sell if private party. Must be kept tip top for me, my family and my customers. So I have more to lose by not maintaining my fleet than the average guy, this is why I'm passionate about the rust topic.
Either way we agree, once rust starts that's it. Rust spreads. Why its called cancer. *Thanks for confirming my points on northern rust.
Thanks for the conversation.
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