What do I have when the diffs aren't locked?

[JTTremor]

A Torsen isn't a standard limited slip, no clutches, and given it's only used in the high end stuff, (Boss 302, SVT Raptor, ect) it's probably rather expensive. It seems to be more of a Detroit Locker type carrier vs a standard limited slip.

What I was saying about an e-locker and a limited slip is that you can't use them at the same time. Can't have both carriers in the same axle at the same time. To my knowledge there is no limited slip that also has an e-locker function.

The Torsen is up front, and it was a $500 upgrade in 2023. The limited slip is the rear differential and it has an e-locker. But true, locked is locked. It disengages at 20 mph.

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[Sparkherd]

Since we're on the subject... can anyone tell me how traction-control (in functionality) differs from limited-slip differential functionality? They seem to provide the same thing via different means. One with sensors and brakes (traction-control), and the other via the "limited slip" functionality of the differential.

Yes.

 

[Sparkherd]

They could indeed provide similar functionality. And for a majority of Bronco owners in particular on pavement, they would be a better choice than manual locker.

But apparently Ford failed to match Toyota and some other makes with implementation, in particular in 4low. Maybe Ford programmers were on vacation during that dev period.

There's a video by that same Dad/Son team where they take a Toyota and a Bronco up a cross-rutted powerline trail.
The Toy just crawls up the trail with their default traction control, whereas the Bronco needs the rear locked to make it up.
Ford's traction control has a dismal time constant; something like 1 Hertz.
The Toyota operates at something like 60Hz, you can hear it in the video.
I've got a 2010 4WD (NOT FX2) Ranger with a very early version of Ford's Brake-based (non-)traction control, and it SUCKS!!!
It seems to be designed to get the truck stuck.
I'm seriously considering a Detroit Locker for that truck, but I don't drive it that much.

 

[bassist]

There's a video by that same Dad/Son team where they take a Toyota and a Bronco up a cross-rutted powerline trail.
The Toy just crawls up the trail with their default traction control, whereas the Bronco needs the rear locked to make it up.
Ford's traction control has a dismal time constant; something like 1 Hertz.
The Toyota operates at something like 60Hz, you can hear it in the video.
I've got a 2010 4WD (NOT FX2) Ranger with a very early version of Ford's Brake-based (non-)traction control, and it SUCKS!!!
It seems to be designed to get the truck stuck.
I'm seriously considering a Detroit Locker for that truck, but I don't drive it that much.

Toyotas punch above their weight.

Frankly, if it was easier to fit bigger tires, I would have kept mine…and if they hadn’t taken away the V6, my resale wouldn’t have been as strong as it was, so I would have been more likely to keep mine.

 

[Jdyount]

Toyotas punch above their weight.

Frankly, if it was easier to fit bigger tires, I would have kept mine…and if they hadn’t taken away the V6, my resale wouldn’t have been as strong as it was, so I would have been more likely to keep mine.

Toyota made a BIG mistake when they didn't go to removable doors/top, non-integrated bumper, rig like the Bronco and Wrangler. How they didn't act when the saw the popularity of the Bronco is beyond me. The new Land Cruiser could have been epic, instead it's basically a re-skinned 4-Runner competing in the exact same segment as the 4-Runner.

 

[GoHawks63]

To me, traction control is really throttle control. It keeps your from madly spinning tires. This has been true for most brands/models I've ever dealt with.

When the ABS circuit stops a spinning tire so the other tire can help within the differential, I call this brake lock differential intervention. I think I learned the name from my old Jeeps (JK, JL). My wife's Acura calls it torque vectoring (changing the direction of the torque). Toyota calls it A-track on my FJ Cruiser.

If Ford has a name, I'm unaware of it. I think Range Rovers started this and is generally considered great at it.

Acura's Torque vectoring is a bit different. I owned a 2006 Acura RL that was the first vehicle that came with Super Handling AWD (SH-AWD). Acura's system can send power front, back and to each side depending on traction and handling needs. For example, when powering through a curve it will send more torque and increase the speed to the outside wheels to help rotate the car. It doesn't apply brakes to the inside wheel(s) like less complicated systems. It will also send power dynamically to the front or rear wheels depending on traction needs.

Yes, they also have traction control to handle wheel spin, but from an AWD perspective, SH-AWD is much more advanced than brake-based torque vectoring system.

It was fun accelerating that RL onto freeway on-ramps. You just put your right foot down and that car would hunker down and power through that curve. It was really ahead of its time back then. An earlier version of that was offered on the last generation Honda Prelude, but that was only on the front axles since it was a FWD car. It would dynamically apply power to either side as needed.

 

[Kini]

Yes.

Even though we might romanticize limited slip, it's inferior to traction control because it doesn't work out what it SHOULD do, it can only do what it is designed to do.

I had a chain reaction of failures once on a Jeep that would have been far less of an issue if it didn't have a limited slip in place. Instead of spinning a tire, things broke.

That's called an operator issue. Get out of the gas, it's not a motor boat.

 

[bassist]

Toyota made a BIG mistake when they didn't go to removable doors/top, non-integrated bumper, rig like the Bronco and Wrangler. How they didn't act when the saw the popularity of the Bronco is beyond me. The new Land Cruiser could have been epic, instead it's basically a re-skinned 4-Runner competing in the exact same segment as the 4-Runner.

The Land Cruiser is really the new generation of the 4Runner…with the 4Runner being enshittified.

If they made the front and rear bumpers more offroad friendly, the fixed doors and roof would have been fine.

 

[bassist]

That's called an operator issue. Get out of the gas, it's not a motor boat.

Yes, it’s totally an operator issue when the linkage between the clutch pedal and the actual clutch fails.

 

[indio22]

There's a video by that same Dad/Son team where they take a Toyota and a Bronco up a cross-rutted powerline trail.
The Toy just crawls up the trail with their default traction control, whereas the Bronco needs the rear locked to make it up.
Ford's traction control has a dismal time constant; something like 1 Hertz.
The Toyota operates at something like 60Hz, you can hear it in the video.
I've got a 2010 4WD (NOT FX2) Ranger with a very early version of Ford's Brake-based (non-)traction control, and it SUCKS!!!
It seems to be designed to get the truck stuck.
I'm seriously considering a Detroit Locker for that truck, but I don't drive it that much.

Yes that video you mentioned, another video comparing to a Wrangler, and another with the Bronco trying to drive off rollers ... made the Bronco brake diff lock implementation look weak. Which is unfortunate because the other makes show how well it can work.

 

[Owl]

Well... maybe this is a heads up for Ford! After all... the traction control is really just controlled by a computer program that can be modified (hopefully).

FORD! FIX IT!

 

[Sparkherd]

Well... maybe this is a heads up for Ford! After all... the traction control is really just controlled by a computer program that can be modified (hopefully).

FORD! FIX IT!

Yeah...we can only hope.
Hey FORD!!! How about a software update where ya'll put an ACTUAL TACHOMETER in the dash of my Badlands?!?
AND GET RID OF THAT DOUBLE HONK BULLSHIT!!!
WhoTF comes up with this crap?!?

 

[GoHawks63]

The double honk is in all Ford vehicles. My Mustang does the same thing.

 

[bassist]

Yeah...we can only hope.
Hey FORD!!! How about a software update where ya'll put an ACTUAL TACHOMETER in the dash of my Badlands?!?
AND GET RID OF THAT DOUBLE HONK BULLSHIT!!!
WhoTF comes up with this crap?!?

You have a tach.

I don’t understand why people have such a hard issue. You’re not driving a high performance car - you should be able to shift from feel and sound alone.

My first motorcycle didn’t have a tach. Things were fine.

I’ve had friends with MT cars without a tach. Again, they were fine.

 

[JT58Bronc]

They are for sure open differentials. I once turned off on a trail that had a huge washout where it met the road- was a huge ditch. It was not even and I end up getting high centered in 4WD- one rear and one front wheel off the ground opposite sides. I had to lock one of the differentials to get out. Sure glad I had the push button locking differential option!

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