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Isnt it interesting that Mercedes 4000 and 5000 series Unimogs utilize a straight cut 4 gear portal like weld is designing?
Axial load can not be so lightly dismissed. It translates into measurable power losses and must be compensated for with bearing design and case strength/weight. Yes it is used in transmissions absolutely because of noise. Yes Helical cut gears are quieter. No they do NOT have a larger engagement surface area. That simple cross section is VERY misleading.
I am sorry but if you want to design gears and measure their stress and strain; inventor software (animated by autodesk fusion) would not be my go to.... He doesn't even have the add-ins to do the stress analysis it appears.... I could be wrong but that is what it looks like. I have never been impressed with Autodesks analysis addins.... maybe they have improved since I taught the software. I always liked Desault's better.
Having taught gear design at a university, I will be purchasing portal axles.... Mine will have straight cut gears. I know they will be louder.... The unsprung weight will be problematic if I want to shoot across the desert at 50 to 100 mph.... Not the type of wheeling I want to do. If that is the type of wheeling you like DO NOT GET PORTALS.... Portals are great at slower speed trail running and rock crawling. They are fine out on the highway where you are NOT bouncing the suspension up and down drastically... Momentum is a bitch. So it will not ride quite as well on the highway but will be okay. the advantage is when you are off road and need or just want clearance and regearing.
Axial load can not be so lightly dismissed. It translates into measurable power losses and must be compensated for with bearing design and case strength/weight. Yes it is used in transmissions absolutely because of noise. Yes Helical cut gears are quieter. No they do NOT have a larger engagement surface area. That simple cross section is VERY misleading.
I am sorry but if you want to design gears and measure their stress and strain; inventor software (animated by autodesk fusion) would not be my go to.... He doesn't even have the add-ins to do the stress analysis it appears.... I could be wrong but that is what it looks like. I have never been impressed with Autodesks analysis addins.... maybe they have improved since I taught the software. I always liked Desault's better.
Having taught gear design at a university, I will be purchasing portal axles.... Mine will have straight cut gears. I know they will be louder.... The unsprung weight will be problematic if I want to shoot across the desert at 50 to 100 mph.... Not the type of wheeling I want to do. If that is the type of wheeling you like DO NOT GET PORTALS.... Portals are great at slower speed trail running and rock crawling. They are fine out on the highway where you are NOT bouncing the suspension up and down drastically... Momentum is a bitch. So it will not ride quite as well on the highway but will be okay. the advantage is when you are off road and need or just want clearance and regearing.
The BroncBuster guy comes across as used car like and a quick buck guy. Being the engineer (I think) that he is, he should know better than armoring tie rods without giving any attention to the rack, which is what you'll "bust" if those rods don't give and break as they're meant to.
Lots of guys on this forum foolishly have purchased those brackets to potential disastrous results.
If I could afford the 74 Weld portals, would get them tomorrow. Hope to get their rack in a year or so.
I absolutely agree with every point you make. Problem is that every engineer has a specialty. I do not think gear design is his based on his presentation above. He is just selling his product. He is right that the helical gears will be significantly quieter. That is because they have a sliding engagement.
I am probably weird because I actually like the sound of the spur gears. But it is so much more than that as to why I will be choosing a 4 gear spur design. First and foremost is the bearings inside the portal..
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Haven't watched yet, but I will, I see this as a rebuttal to Quinn's "digs" on IG and YT where he shows portals going 85 MPH with no noise, drives the bronco to show there is no noise, Bronco doing a burnout and all you hear are the tires squealing.
He never calls him out specifically but if you listen how he says it you can tell who he is referring to. I am not an engineer but I do pay attention. years ago I was always trying to save my pennies so one day I could afford a G-Force transmission for my Stang. Why?? Because it used straight cut gears. Those trans would shift the next gear no if's, no ands, no buts, light pressure on the shifter and BANG!! next gear. It made miss shifts a thing of the past. Not to mention you did need the clutch to shift either. These were popular in Nascar cup racing as well. I only make this point because BB harps about being straight cut gears and for me I don't care how noisy they are I care how well it holds up and how well it works.
Plus, Quinn has actually explained why he built the way he built. BB just tries to force his take on you. I don't see BB as much of an engineer, otherwise he would explain his product in more detail.
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Have you seen this video? I'm not an engineer nor know much about gear design and whatnot, it seems that they've spent a lot of time considering (and testing in competition) what works best. I would definitely like their portals plus the HOSS 3 rack.
I guess I'd like to hear them in person and know more about the high-speed characteristics, but I've already started putting money aside...
OH he directly mentions weld over and over in this vid.... Even the portals in the H1 were originally spurs... I think they may have changed to helical. Using todays technology Helical gears are not really more expensive to cut than spur gears... the additional cost is when you start adding in a 4th gear and the support bearings. That is done for strength. I also like that I do not have the helical vampire stealing my power.... yes I have that in my transmission from ford..... But like you I would rather have the spur gear transmission as whinny as it is.Haven't watched yet, but I will, I see this as a rebuttal to Quinn's "digs" on IG and YT where he shows portals going 85 MPH with no noise, drives the bronco to show there is no noise, Bronco doing a burnout and all you hear are the tires squealing.
I am not an engineer but I do pay attention. years ago I was always trying to save my pennies so one day I could afford a G-Force transmission for my Stang. Why?? Because it used straight cut gears. Those trans would shift the next gear no if's, no ands, no buts, light pressure on the shifter and BANG!! next gear. It made miss shifts a thing of the past. Not to mention you did need the clutch to shift either. These were popular in Nascar cup racing as well. I only make this point because BB harps about being straight cut gears and for me I don't care how noisy they are I care how well it holds up and how well it works.
Plus, Quinn has actually explained why he built the way he built. BB just tries to force his take on you. I don't see BB as much of an engineer, otherwise he would explain his product in more detail.
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Hes definitly not an engineer. The Austin guy also has no idea what hes talking about with meshing of the transmission gears, atleast in what he says here. The helical or spur gear is never meshing or unmeshing with another gear. And his comment about straight cut gears is comical when nearly all sport bike transmissions are straight cut, spinning 1000x faster than the Bronco portals ever will.
Also the vast majority of people have the 10r60, regardless of what the manual guys say. It would be nice for them to compare to that, but I doubt any of them could explain the planetary systems in the 10r60 so they stick with simple old school racing transmissions.
They keep saying that KOH cars have more power, but in this type of situation power of the enigne is not the concern. Its the impact and momentum loading torque that can occur based on the tire grip. In low range the torque is multiplied by the trans and the axle, meaning it is at its highest at the portal.
Gear sims in fusion are comical. It can be done, but it should not be. Using sims to get gear forces instead of base gear and torque equations is the sign of a designer that does not fully grasp the loading. The axial loading is HUGE. The whole reason that 74Weld made their decision is because it started with first principles of "add as little width as possible to screw up suspension kinematics as little as possible" Thats what led down this whole path.
Helicals work in some applications because the kinematics were designed for the additional width. When adding to an existing vehicle, minimizing the changes to the kinematics is the highest importance for a well performing ride. 74 weld has said that 38s should fit with full travel at stock squatch suspension. CG and droop is the name of performance, so advertising additional lift of Tibus is not a good thing.
74Weld is an engineering company that manufactures parts. Broncbuster is a marketing guy shilling another companies product that he does not seem to fully understand.
Also the vast majority of people have the 10r60, regardless of what the manual guys say. It would be nice for them to compare to that, but I doubt any of them could explain the planetary systems in the 10r60 so they stick with simple old school racing transmissions.
They keep saying that KOH cars have more power, but in this type of situation power of the enigne is not the concern. Its the impact and momentum loading torque that can occur based on the tire grip. In low range the torque is multiplied by the trans and the axle, meaning it is at its highest at the portal.
Gear sims in fusion are comical. It can be done, but it should not be. Using sims to get gear forces instead of base gear and torque equations is the sign of a designer that does not fully grasp the loading. The axial loading is HUGE. The whole reason that 74Weld made their decision is because it started with first principles of "add as little width as possible to screw up suspension kinematics as little as possible" Thats what led down this whole path.
Helicals work in some applications because the kinematics were designed for the additional width. When adding to an existing vehicle, minimizing the changes to the kinematics is the highest importance for a well performing ride. 74 weld has said that 38s should fit with full travel at stock squatch suspension. CG and droop is the name of performance, so advertising additional lift of Tibus is not a good thing.
74Weld is an engineering company that manufactures parts. Broncbuster is a marketing guy shilling another companies product that he does not seem to fully understand.
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Friends don't let friends buy Broncbuster. It still amazes me that people buy his tie rod brackets when they could be buying far superior ICONs for about the same price. 74Weld is currently the only company providing good steering rack enclosures and portals.
Yes I have watched.... I also get the impression that he knows what he is talking about. That coming from someone that has a clue (or at least I like to think I do, at least significantly more than most people). When I go to portals I like his design for the stage three rack... It appears to be significantly stronger case while using the HOSS three rack internals with additional support.
Not sure I will go with weld for the portals or not But I will be using a four gear spur design and NOT helical gears.
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All you have to do is look at the choices he made when lifting his own rig... Sorry to say this but it makes me cringe. It was all about ride height and big tires. NO he did not improve articulation. I would put money on the ride being really firm. has dramatically improved up travel at the cost of droop.
I dont care. ‘Merica. As a veteran Im buying broncbuster, every day and twice on sunday. His bushing video really hit home about ONLY BUYING US MADE, not overseas people stealing our jobs the jobs of HARDWORKING americans…..
and thats all i need to know.
Broncbuster ‘Merican Portals….
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and thats all i need to know.
Broncbuster ‘Merican Portals….
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You do understand that the portals he is selling are not made in America? Right?
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Since you did not see the sarcasm>>>>>>>
BroncoBuster made a video about made in the USA because Rough Country, known for overseas stuff, copied his overpriced bushing for cheap. Guess no one told him those bushings were made in the USA.
Now we have BB who was preaching made in the USA selling, no-no trying to convince people to buy, his portals made in Germany, when Quinn (74Weld) is already making portals made in the USA. Now Quinn has made a BB "style" bushing and pass side housing cheaper than BB, so now BB is mad and he made the above video trying to convince people that Quinn is behind the times on his portals. Problem is BB has not done his homework.
You are absolutely correct! I missed that. I can be a little slow at times. The problem is mcinfantry was so convincingly mimicking some of my neighbors... Sounded EXACTLY like them. I bought it....Since you did not see the sarcasm>>>>>>>
BroncoBuster made a video about made in the USA because Rough Country, known for overseas stuff, copied his overpriced bushing for cheap. Guess no one told him those bushings were made in the USA.
Now we have BB who was preaching made in the USA selling, no-no trying to convince people to buy, his portals made in Germany, when Quinn (74Weld) is already making portals made in the USA. Now Quinn has made a BB "style" bushing and pass side housing cheaper than BB, so now BB is mad and he made the above video trying to convince people that Quinn is behind the times on his portals. Problem is BB has not done his homework.
Not only is the 74 Weld product made in the US but it is far far superior in it's design..... for a long long laundary list of reasons. I really do not know anything about Wolfgang Tibus.... but he kind of strikes me (for what little I have seen) a bit like BB......
It would be really interesting to know, who contact who first????
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