Case for Non-Sas

[Flying Skunks]

Hell , now my wife wants me to modify her Bronco as well . From someone that didn't want to modify their Bronco

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[BroncoBeachBuggy]

For me I drive a lot up and down fishing beaches in and around Montauk (tip of Long Island), getting in and out at night maybe 100 nights a year. That is my off-road use. So I really wanted wash-out floor with no carpet/cloth seats as they are a bear to clean with caked in wet sand from wader boots. So it was BD or BL. BL is more serious off-road, so BD met the task at a lesser price. Now, when I bought Bronco's were hot on the market and I wanted one quickly so had limited used options. I found a low mile decently priced non-SAS BD. I wanted SAS not so much because I needed it for beach driving, but for looks. I'm glad I did not get SAS! I can just get in my non-SAS BD 20 times a night comfortably as I work the beaches fishing in waders that put weight on and take flex out of your legs. Higher up SAS would have been a bear. So that's my use case for non-SAS, which is probably rather unique.

 

[Montana Bronco]

I was one of the people who reserved a Bronco early on. My number one criteria was a manual transmission, and SAS was auto trans only back then, so no SAS for me.

I only paid $26K for my Bronco thanks to Granger (best dealership in the whole USA).

My Bronco suits my needs, I don’t miss SAS at all.

 

[BigHoof]

This is about as dumb as an oil thread. There really is no wrong answer. Whatever works for you is the best option.

 

[Imaginary Friend]

IMO, the stock non-Sas Badlands wheels are the best looking in the entire Bronco lineup...

They remind me of the Raptors that I have on my F150:

 

[65CarryAll]

Changing to larger tires will affect a whole host of systems on a vehicle, and not just gear ratio or speedometer reading. The PCM is programed from the factory for the tires the vehicle was built with. Changing to larger tires will change the wheel speed input reading the PCM recieves from the sensors, and therefore affect output decisions to the engine, transmission and braking systems. If you want larger tires you are always better off starting with the SAS package.

 

[EasternSierra]

One thing I've found useful here is discussions of the pros and cons of various options such as Sasquatch vs. aftermarket mods. This can include people saying that their choice worked for them or didn't work for them and why. This is helpful to prospective buyers.

Sas tempts me, but for a Badlands it's not justified cost-wise ($5K+) for me because it adds almost nothing other than the tires and wheels. I'll be getting a MT with the 4.7 (if that's ever going to be built again at some point) and I personally don't want the Territory tires or the wheels. I'd replace them quickly if I did get a Sas.

To put the gearing ratio issue in context, the difference for AT BL buyers between 4.46 with non-Sas and 4.7 with Sas is 11% [correction: 5.4%]. Whether that matters or not will be a matter of use case and personal preference. There's no wrong or right answer here, though if you want to go up to larger tires then it's more likely to matter.

I think the point of these kind of discussions is to help people make decisions going forward. That doesn't imply criticisms of other people's past decisions on trim, options, and packages. Those decisions were usually made when trims, options, and package availability and pricing were very different from what they are now. Plus, everyone has their own wants and needs and their own use case to consider. Thanks to everyone for their pro and con comments.

 

[nolimits]

I’m just saying that out the box, non SAS with 4.46 is probably nearly identical gear ratio to SAS on 35’s on the road because of the smaller tires.and off road.

Agree that less gear is required to move a smaller tire (less weight; less rotational mass). So 35’s with 4.70’s should be roughly the same as 33’s with 4.46’s.

To get the more technical/nerd answer, enter the variables in the @grimmjeeper gear calculator. One of, if not the best, ones out there.

http://www.grimmjeeper.com/gears.html

That said, when buying, I had an opportunity to drive a Badlands SAS and non-SAS back to back. Both were dealer stock and identical options aside from color and SAS package. Both had 2.7, auto, hard top, high package and tow package.

Butt dyno revealed a small, but noticeable difference in acceleration off the line and while at speed. Just more responsive overall. This surprised me as I didn’t expect that variance. It should be the same. There was enough variance though I thought to myself that I may want 5.13’s with 35’s to get the same or more similar responsiveness as the 33’s and 4.46’s. I know…people do it just fine. I just like the responsiveness.

Started digging deeper and realized the SAS package was +$5k but “gave” you the auto transmission for free, making it a net increase around $3k. Like many others I just didn’t feel like I was getting enough value to go SAS, especially when you consider the 0.43” height you gain from 35’s comes at the expense of LESS articulation than you get with 33’s on the non-SAS.

FYI, this is me and @GNFITR at a local Jeep event a few months back before he did his 6112’s. I’ve been leaning towards the Eibach’s myself but haven’t beaten and kicked the horse to death enough times quite yet, lol.

 

[JBlanco]

Likely 99% of the Broncos out there won't ever need the capability of the SAS package, the same way a Wrangler Sport is an extremely capable off road vehicle.
For the money, when I was able to order it on my wife's base, it was a deal and I'm sure I'll get my money back at the time of resale. I am also done modifying vehicles and wanted to have no issues with the dealership if I ever need to bring it in for warranty work. Jeep dealers are very receptive of owners modifying their vehicles but I've seen Ford deny warranty work on a faulty hard top because the owner "waxed it"...

 

[GNFITR]

Changing to larger tires will affect a whole host of systems on a vehicle, and not just gear ratio or speedometer reading. The PCM is programed from the factory for the tires the vehicle was built with. Changing to larger tires will change the wheel speed input reading the PCM recieves from the sensors, and therefore affect output decisions to the engine, transmission and braking systems. If you want larger tires you are always better off starting with the SAS package.

PCM's can be calibrated for a different tire size using Forscan, Ford Performance Pro-Cal Tuner, and I think there are a couple of other options out there now. No different than the several hundred, if not thousands, of Bronco owners who have added larger tires. Been running the Sas 35" takeoffs for a few months now (calibrated) and have not had a single issue or code. Have not heard of anyone else having PCM related issues including those that have made the jump to 37"s.

 

[Sitruc_btb]

Front only correct? Or is there something I don’t know about the rear axles?

Yes it’s really a shame that in the very beginning Ford wasn’t upfront with what models had exactly what in regards to running gear. It’s still anybody’s guess what the 2025’s will have that’s different. Why so secretive @Ford? . WTF?

You had to dig for it, but Ford had a downloadable brochure/chart that showed gear ratios for the trims, packages, what else was available(4.27 final drive w locker), as well as transfer case options and gear ratios.

 

[Sitruc_btb]

why doesn't anyone mention with the SAS package you get the HOSS steering upgrade-- that certainly is a must have

That's a MY24 addition. 21-23, excluding Wildtrak and the Raptor, all Broncos have the same steering rack.

 

[Fordified1]

You had to dig for it, but Ford had a downloadable brochure/chart that showed gear ratios for the trims, packages, what else was available(4.27 final drive w locker), as well as transfer case options and gear ratios.

Gear ratios are one thing, But did any of that info tell us if it had a 190 or 210 front differential? Or that all broncos (besides raptors) have the 220 rear axle?

 

[Sitruc_btb]

Gear ratios are one thing, But did any of that info tell us if it had a 190 or 210 front differential? Or that all broncos (besides raptors) have the 220 rear axle?

Probably in the specs somewhere. Tech specs while in build in price or exploring the different trims. The info was there, just not in front of our faces, cuz to the average consumer, they don't care about that stuff.

https://thebronconation.com/2021-ford-bronco-technical-specs-two-door-and-four-door-models/

 

[Dontc4re]

So I see this thread and I think Yes! I like, no love, my non sas mostly because I’m an old hobbit and it fits me perfectly… then I saw your photos and… let’s just say SQUACH !

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