Sponsored

"Crash Bars"???

Status
Not open for further replies.

fv9

Black Diamond
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
53
Messages
438
Reaction score
394
Location
Camas, WA
Vehicle(s)
2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport, 2005 Lotus Elise, Protoform P3 formula vee, Crossle 32F formula ford
Your Bronco Model
Black Diamond
Clubs
 
It is not just the federal government that mandates safety. That a very tired rant in my opinion. Havevyou every been involved in any motorsports? The first third of most rule books are the safety regs. I am part of the vintage racing world where cars must be kept in their period form, the exception is safety. Why is it so offensive that we are looking out for each other and using the collective knowledge to do so?
Just saw you are in WA. So am I. Are you involved with SOVREN? Official or race? I run FV in SCCA Majors and vintage FF in SOVREN.
Sponsored

 
Last edited:

mneblett

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
204
Reaction score
485
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 F-150, 2019 Mustang GT vert, 2019 Corvette
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Everyone has to make an *informed* choice about whether they want to remove the cabin intrusion bars.

They work as a team -- the front one prevents the front of the wheel from turning outward (thus aiming the rear of the wheel directly at your feet), and the rear one pushes the rear of the wheel outward, away from the cabin.

These actually have been being added to cars and light trucks for more than a decade. BMW, Ford, just about everybody, so they're nothing new. The difference here is most are well hidden under the body, but on the Bronco they are more visible.

Regardless of whether you hate them for their looks or effects on aftermarket modifications, the *undeniable* fact -- proven by hundreds (thousands?) of crash tests -- is they work: they are remarkably effective in preventing wheel/suspension component intrusion into the foot space of the cabin, and do so with an equally remarkably low-cost and effective arrangement. Google "offset crash sets" and watch a bunch of with/without videos to see the results -- when you see a wheel tucking inside the fender and being driven *hard* into the passenger compartment, think about what you would be experiencing in pain as the firewall and pedal assembly crush your lower extremity bones.

Now, fully informed, if you want to take your chances with the potential for avoidable severe foot injury, go for it -- 'murica! But don't just blanket decry the addition like it's some evil conspiracy to take away your "right to live free."

BTW, if you want someone to blame, blame the IIHS (Insurance Institute for Highway Safety). NHTSA usually only adopts new tests after IIHS has identified a problem and created public pressure to add a safety feature. I'm not here to engage in a debate whether they are "safety nazis" or "safety champions."

BTW2, if you want someone else to blame, blame yourself (the buying public). If a vehicle gets anything less than a top IIHS rating, the manufacturers have to react to fix the "problem" (real or perceived) because they will lose sales to the competition. We drive the addition of safety features more than any other factor.

We're supposed to all be adults, and I'm of the mind that individuals should be ready to take responsibility for the consequences of their choices. So if someone wants to make a reasoned decision to remove their intrusion bars, I'm not going to criticize their choice. And if someone wants to keep their intrusion bars, I'm not going to criticize their choice.

I for one am glad Ford included them to allow the choice.
 
Last edited:

mneblett

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
204
Reaction score
485
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 F-150, 2019 Mustang GT vert, 2019 Corvette
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
I don't get all of the auto stop hate -- I've been driving an F-150 for three years with it, and don't hardly even notice it. Happy to not be wasting gas when stuck at lights.
 

Bodge Garage

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Kris
Joined
Aug 6, 2020
Threads
15
Messages
383
Reaction score
1,022
Location
Millwood WA
Vehicle(s)
1994 Land Rover Discovery, Jeep Gladiator
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
Just saw you are in WA. So am I. Are you involved with SOVREN? Official or race? I run FV in SCCA Majors and vintage FF in SOVREN.
SOVREN and Spokane Festival of Speed. I am track safety for the time being. I am sure we have ran across each other at some point. Finishing up on a couple MG's in the garage.
 

XCR440

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Nathan
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
20
Messages
608
Reaction score
2,193
Location
Union, Iowa
Vehicle(s)
Mustang GT, 22 Badlands 2 door
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
I think people are confused who to blame. This isn't driven by the government, an likely makes no difference in their crash tests. The responsible party is the IIHS, they're the ones doing the small overlap test. Ford pushes for this partly for safety as a marketing tool, but on Bronco this isn't a big issue. What it should do for us is cheaper insurance and that will be important. Ford does pretty well on insurance rates because of things like this.

I wonder if IIHS has a reservation? They're supposed to buy off the lot to avoid ringers, guessing Bronco won't get tested this year.
 

Sponsored

jeep364

Black Diamond
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
78
Reaction score
77
Location
NC
Vehicle(s)
2007 Jeep WK
Your Bronco Model
Black Diamond
Jesus what a stupid, shitty take. You can't just equate highly uneven odds on things. Your odds of dying in a car crash of a 1990s Toyota are astronomically higher than dying the same crash in a 2021 Ford. The odds of you dying in a car crash are WAY fucking higher than of you dying because a tree fell on your home, and the odds are worse if your car is shitty in crashes. Covid19 has already killed WAY more people than the flu's annual standard. To date, that's 265,000. The flu is estimated on the absolute highest end to kill 61,000 Americans per year. That 265K is likely a lowball anyhow, given that (as of October), the USA had seen over 300K excess deaths from previous yearly totals. No, cars with a steel cage are not safer in crashes, crumple zones are a thing for a reason (you really are showing how completely ignorant you are on a multitude of topics).Not a single point of logic you posted holds a single ounce of water; nothing you said is remotely close to a cogent argument or compelling point.

Basically dude, stop acting like a petulent child, spouting dumb bullshit and mis-representing information. Just tell the damn truth about yourself that everyone else can already see: you don't care about safety regulations because you'd rather look cool and manly, safety and livelihood of yourself and others be damned. It's not hard to admit.

If I get banned for this post, it's worth it. Your comment was just that stupid.
No way anyone might count a non-COVID death as just that. Not possible when the govt is throwing money at this. No way Flu numbers are down to 0 this year....or are they.

I don't disagree with your general premise and response, but if we are throwing half ass numbers out there now, I would highly suggest the COVID deaths here are under 150k. Good thing mask mandates and mandatory gathering restrictions only apply to some people and some gatherings. But of course if you call it a protest, it is a-ok.

Bottom line, the crash bars and covid are here to stay (for a while). There will be aftermarket mods to cover the larger tires and hopefully Ford will put a cap or improve the visual - I am just visualizing the rust forming on these things as we speak...one season of salt on those exposed beams. That's the number one thing I'm concerned about.
 

AzScorpion

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Dave
Joined
Oct 11, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
646
Reaction score
1,841
Location
Arizona
Vehicle(s)
2019 Ford Ranger SuperCrew Lariat 4x4
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
I don't get all of the auto stop hate -- I've been driving an F-150 for three years with it, and don't hardly even notice it. Happy to not be wasting gas when stuck at lights.
It's not so bad when you're at a light but when you're pulling into your garage. Pull in and hit the brake so you can go from D - P and it stops, then starts back up again, plus it's annoying at short lights. You can ease your brake pedal to not engage it but for me it's just easier to turn it off. For the amount of driving I do I'll be lucky if it saves me $2.00/year.
 

Danger Dan

Member
Joined
Nov 9, 2020
Threads
1
Messages
19
Reaction score
99
Location
Las Vegas
Vehicle(s)
2003 GMC Sierra 1500HD, 1986 Suzuki Samurai
Your Bronco Model
Undecided
No way anyone might count a non-COVID death as just that. Not possible when the govt is throwing money at this. No way Flu numbers are down to 0 this year....or are they.

I don't disagree with your general premise and response, but if we are throwing half ass numbers out there now, I would highly suggest the COVID deaths here are under 150k. Good thing mask mandates and mandatory gathering restrictions only apply to some people and some gatherings. But of course if you call it a protest, it is a-ok.

Bottom line, the crash bars and covid are here to stay (for a while). There will be aftermarket mods to cover the larger tires and hopefully Ford will put a cap or improve the visual - I am just visualizing the rust forming on these things as we speak...one season of salt on those exposed beams. That's the number one thing I'm concerned about.


You are accusing thousands, possibly tens of thousands of doctors of fraud... And for what? It doesn't go into their personal paychecks, that money is for hospital use. It goes to departments who replenish supplies to... treat more COVID? What do you think happens with this money?

I can see 1-3% of cases being fraud, any more and you have a hell of a case to support.

Additioanlly, it is quite obvious from your post that you have no fucking clue what "excess deaths" means. There are 300K more deaths than in the typical year at this point. The flu didn't suddenly multiply its annual death toll by 6 (SIX). GTFO with that "the stats are too high" bullshit. It's the cry of a low-information casual observer who doesn't actually understand what is happening.

Doctors aren't just bullshiting cause of death.
 
Last edited:

fv9

Black Diamond
Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 15, 2020
Threads
53
Messages
438
Reaction score
394
Location
Camas, WA
Vehicle(s)
2018 Alfa Romeo Giulia Ti Sport, 2005 Lotus Elise, Protoform P3 formula vee, Crossle 32F formula ford
Your Bronco Model
Black Diamond
Clubs
 
SOVREN and Spokane Festival of Speed. I am track safety for the time being. I am sure we have ran across each other at some point. Finishing up on a couple MG's in the garage.
Im sure we have. I didnt run much vintage this year, just the CRC, since I was focused on the Runoffs and COVID killed my business for most of 2021.
 

Sponsored

mneblett

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Mark
Joined
Sep 13, 2020
Threads
7
Messages
204
Reaction score
485
Location
Virginia
Vehicle(s)
2018 F-150, 2019 Mustang GT vert, 2019 Corvette
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
BMW in 1983 was the first motorcycle manufacturer to introduce ABS on motorcycles. And yes, predictably, there was a large cry of anger from a portion of BMW riders because "they can stop faster than the ABS."

It didn't take many years for that sentiment to go away when people realized that, while a rider in perfect dry conditions, mentally pre-prepared to initiate true threshold braking at a fixed point in a parking lot from 60 mph could certainly stop 5-10 feet shorter than an ABS system, no one except *some* (not all) racers could instantly find that knife-edge between threshold braking and lock-up at the instant an unexpected traffic hazard suddenly presents itself -- and even more so on wet or loose surfaces, steel plates, etc.

And much like Bronco intrusion bars, if a rider wanted to take their chances without ABS, they still had the choice to pull a fuse to disable the system.

Point is, blanket hate for safety systems simply because they are somehow "forced" on a buyer is, IMO, ignorant. Choose for yourself whether to defeat a safety system you don't like, but don't expect everyone to jump on board your rant train.
 

ZackDanger

Badlands
Well-Known Member
First Name
Z
Joined
Jul 8, 2020
Threads
23
Messages
6,451
Reaction score
28,975
Location
Massachusetts
Vehicle(s)
2021 Toyota 4Runner
Your Bronco Model
Badlands
Clubs
 
You are accusing thousands, possibly tens of thousands of doctors of fraud... And for what? It doesn't go into their personal paychecks, that money is for hospital use. It goes to departments who replenish supplies to... treat more COVID? What do you think happens with this money?

I can see 1-3% of cases being fraud, any more and you have a hell of a case to support.

Additioanlly, it is quite obvious from your post that you have no fucking clue what "excess deaths" means. There are 300K more deaths than in the typical year at this point. The flue didn't suddenly multiply its annual death toll by 6 (SIX). GTFO with that "the stats are too high" bullshit. It's the cry of a low-information casual observer who doesn't actually understand what is happening.

Doctors aren't just bullshiting cause of death.
Cause of Death vs Means of Death

I honestly don’t know why people are so unwilling to believe and trust the subject matter experts.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
 


Top