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*UPDATE* Purely coincidentally(?), I received an email after this was posted with a working solution. I'll leave this up until confirmation and then I'll be happy to update the thread with the outcome. As I said, not looking for problems - just solutions.
(Admin -no clue where general PSA's go as this is aftermarket and not OEM. I'm putting this in General, apologies if wrong & please move to proper sub-forum..)
Let me preface this by saying I know quite a lot of people hate whiny posts, myself included. I've included a very short TL;DR up top with a lengthy section down below to not waste your time.
---------------------------------------
SHORT VERSION (TL;DR):
Product 48710c (Icon Front adjustable coilover kit that comes with stage 6-7 or optional on lower stages) has a known, admitted design flaw - especially when combined with the Icon Billet UCA. The reservoir hose can and has backed off its fitting from rubbing as there is no room for the hose between coilover and billet UCA. Icon knows this, admits this, but has failed to reply back to my e-mails or return my calls for almost 2 weeks. My Bronco is dead in the water.. Only solution thus far is to adjust Icon Billet UCA to near the max length in order to create room but this REALLY screws up the camber. I don't know about the lower stage non adjustable coilovers, so check to be safe.
I would have more info but Icon refuses to provide any.
WOULD I RECOMMEND THIS PRODUCT? heh.. no. I'll leave it at that.
If you don't care, you can stop reading here.
-----------------------------------------
LONG VERSION:
A word of caution for anyone thinking about doing business with @Dusty at ICON, or just Icon Dynamics in general. Absolutely avoid their coilover kits on the basis of terrible customer support, but specifically their non 'electric" but adjustable front coilover kits(part number 48700c, as found on stage 6-7) as the default reservoir hose routing has serious safety issues. This safety issue is even worse when paired with their billet UCA. As far as I'm concerned, this product combination needs a 'involuntary recall' at this point.
The Stage 8 'electric' suspension has completely different hose routing and different fittings and appears to be excluded from this problem. Apparently there is a 'revised' version of 48700c, but I've seen no evidence of it yet. All of the photos in the installation manual are of a completely different set of coilovers (the Stage 8 electronically controlled set), so you can't rely on those for troubleshooting purposes.
I was unfortunate enough to spend $5K+ on parts for a 2.5" coilover lift from Icon Dynamics with their adjustable coil overs and billet UCA. Immediately after install, it was obvious there was a major design flaw as the UCA left no room for the hose between the reservoir and shock body. Absolutely no position you can move/rotate the reservoir that buys enough space not to have issues. Dusty has admitted as as much in the main Icon Dynamics Lift thread. This rubbing was bad enough that I had exposed braided steel after one quick test drive. After calling the company several times for help and getting nowhere, I hopped on the forums to see if its a known issue and find this:
Well, I gave it my best. After multiple emails to Scott (starting Sept 12), contacting Dusty here asking why I wasn't getting a response from Scott, and trying via telephone - I am now stuck with a Bronco that is undrivable due to safety concerns. The best I get is "I'll let Scott know". Dusty has always been polite, but being polite isn't fixing my vehicle. The one and only e-mail I received back (sept 13) was essentially a 'canned' response, and their preferred option was completely removing the coil overs, ship them back to Icon, wait for Icon to swap the hoses and fittings and then wait for return shipping. I guess I'm supposed to just leave my Bronco on jack stands on my front lawn or something..? I asked for clarification and never heard back. I also asked if they could ship me the updated coilovers to install and I would ship the defective pair back (pretty standard practice when a company sells a known defective product) - Once again, I've not received an answer of any type.
Dusty took exception to the fact that I already called him/her out once for this, so I want to be very specific - Dusty has indeed replied back with "I'll let Scott know" multiple times.. with zero follow up after. I hope that was specific enough for you not to take exception, Dusty. I would've much rather prefer you take exception to the fact that your company sold me a defective product and refused to support it.
Quote from Scott in the one e-mail I received, further admitting to a design flaw:
" Once more guys were installing these in the wild and the issue became apparent, our engineers did revise the hose configuration for production to improve overall clearance. The new hose config clears much better makes this final fit up MUCH easier. So another option, we can swap the hoses on your coilovers to this new config. This would also get rid of the damaged hose and give you the latest version so you don’t have to try and fiddle with the hoses any more. Two birds one stone. This would probably involve sending the shocks in to us, but I can help facilitate that and get them back to you quickly if you want to go that route. "
The first option for those curious was fiddling with the UCA joints as I ended up doing, though no instructions were ever provided.
Be warned - Without a large adjustment to the billet UCA, you will likely be unable to clear the reservoir hose which can lead to the fittings being backed off when your shock rebounds over any bumps. I had this happen just pulling in my driveway over a gentle curb after a ~30 second test drive and lost some shock oil. I was able to retighten the fitting, but now I have a coilover missing about ~1 oz of shock oil. It may need service already, I honestly don't know. That is one of many questions that have gone unanswered so far.
I have 1/16th to MAYBE 1/8th of an inch of clearance on each side of the reservoir hose after the adjustment. Keep in mind that the adjustment points on the billet UCA are primarily to dial in castor/camber - not create pockets for the hose. If you move the two heim joints out equally, the top of your tire also moves away from the Bronco the same amount. I'm hoping to find a shop that can align the suspension with this amount of camber or else I'll have to take the UCA's off yet again and try to remove some camber without crushing the hose more. The amount of camber is easily visible to the eye and I'm not sure the eccentric bolts on the LCA will be able to pull camber back within spec. Still waiting for shop appt to find out for sure.
At the end of the day, going on two weeks later (its now Friday afternoon on the 23rd and have no hopes of hearing back before the weekend), I still have absolutely no clue on what needs to happen to make my vehicle safe to drive again. Do yourself a favor and just hold out for a brand that is going to support its customers. When your life and vehicle are on the line, can you really trust a company that won't support its product - even after admitting to design flaws? I only have 37" tires now or I would take the lift kit off and just go back to factory, but alas - not an option. I've started calling around to third party suspension shops to help sort this out and the cheapest rate Ive found so far is $100/hour just to diagnose. Since Icon won't help, I think my only option is to pay for having custom hoses mounted and the shocks serviced. RIP my wallet.
Who knows, maybe I'm being unreasonable. I'm not looking to cause problems - I was hoping for solutions. Instead I have a $5,000+ liability installed on my Bronco. I'm sure a lot of people will say they've had good experience with Icon and that's fine, but in my opinion, you measure a company on how it responds to the tougher problems. In this case, they left me out to dry. Maybe its a fluke? Lets hope so. Hopefully I'm the only one who ends up with this safety issue, but the company is handling it in the worst way possible.
Heck - maybe there was an easy solution I missed. If the company had bothered to follow up, I'd know for certain right now.
BUYER BEWARE.
I'd love to post more of the email etc, but Icon Dynamics includes a boilerplate disclaimer in all emails that reads as follows:
"The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and are intended solely for addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. This transmission is sent in trust, for the sole purpose of delivery to the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, any use, reproduction or dissemination of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any."
While not legally enforceable, I'd rather not deal with the hassle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
More detailed information you can skip unless interested:
If you have the Icon's installed and have any rubbing - keep a really close eye on the ~30 degree fitting in particular. Pressure to the hose can apply torque and back the threads loose really quickly.
The area in blue is where the torque is applied from rubbing between the coil over and UCA (I could see it happen in real time by letting my tire droop and then jacking the LCA up). The fitting circled in red will potentially back off due to the twisting of the hose as it tries to get out of the way of the UCA. Was this caused by a quality control issue? Was the fitting never properly torqued? Who knows. I don't have a good photo handy, but the hose behind the blue circle is worn down to the steel braided section inside after just a couple miles of test drive in total. Took no time at all. The angle of the reservoir in the photo was chosen because it pushes the hose into the coil as hard as possible to avoid the sharp inner edge of the UCA. Before moving out the UCA, there wasn't any room to put a hose shield on to slow down the damage. I've tried looking for different angles, different mounting points or really any solution at all and found nothing. Keep in mind that in the photo above, the res line is completely smashed at full extension and will not move towards the pocket any further. The damage happened over mundane bumps - primarily the curb in front of my house.
(In laymen terms - when your Bronco hits a bump, the Icon billet arm pushes up rapidly, catches on the hose which causes it to spin a bit to the left, which backed the fitting off and allowed the magic fluid inside to drip out.)
Will this be an issue for every single Bronco with this kit/combination? Probably not.
There seems to be a good amount of variances between Broncos that allows some to get a solid fit while others can't at all - much like the other Icon safety concern right now*. Tube UCA's are probably a bit better because they're rounded and won't eat into your hose as quickly (which prevents leverage), but I would still watch for rubbing to avoid the fitting backing off. Like I said, no clue if it was poor quality control etc. No clue about other brand UCA's, but I'm sure wishing I went Camburg or something. A loose fitting by itself isn't the end of the world unless it happens when you're out somewhere remote.
Everything below is just reference material.
-----------------------------
My Bronco is a 21' Badlands Lux 2.7 w/Sas package.
The front coil overs are part number 48700c - 21-UP FORD BRONCO FRONT VS CDCV COILOVER KIT
The UCA is the Icon Dynamics 21 Bronco Billet UCA.
Total miles on the new suspension: ~10-15.
* The coilover spring will bind/rub and potentially damage your sway bar and/or rub against your tie rod do to faulty designed mounting pin
(Funny enough, I did DM Dusty about this pin as well and was told they were no longer available - they only made six?! The instructions were to watch their website and contact sales to eventually get one.)
(Admin -no clue where general PSA's go as this is aftermarket and not OEM. I'm putting this in General, apologies if wrong & please move to proper sub-forum..)
Let me preface this by saying I know quite a lot of people hate whiny posts, myself included. I've included a very short TL;DR up top with a lengthy section down below to not waste your time.
---------------------------------------
SHORT VERSION (TL;DR):
Product 48710c (Icon Front adjustable coilover kit that comes with stage 6-7 or optional on lower stages) has a known, admitted design flaw - especially when combined with the Icon Billet UCA. The reservoir hose can and has backed off its fitting from rubbing as there is no room for the hose between coilover and billet UCA. Icon knows this, admits this, but has failed to reply back to my e-mails or return my calls for almost 2 weeks. My Bronco is dead in the water.. Only solution thus far is to adjust Icon Billet UCA to near the max length in order to create room but this REALLY screws up the camber. I don't know about the lower stage non adjustable coilovers, so check to be safe.
I would have more info but Icon refuses to provide any.
WOULD I RECOMMEND THIS PRODUCT? heh.. no. I'll leave it at that.
If you don't care, you can stop reading here.
-----------------------------------------
LONG VERSION:
A word of caution for anyone thinking about doing business with @Dusty at ICON, or just Icon Dynamics in general. Absolutely avoid their coilover kits on the basis of terrible customer support, but specifically their non 'electric" but adjustable front coilover kits(part number 48700c, as found on stage 6-7) as the default reservoir hose routing has serious safety issues. This safety issue is even worse when paired with their billet UCA. As far as I'm concerned, this product combination needs a 'involuntary recall' at this point.
The Stage 8 'electric' suspension has completely different hose routing and different fittings and appears to be excluded from this problem. Apparently there is a 'revised' version of 48700c, but I've seen no evidence of it yet. All of the photos in the installation manual are of a completely different set of coilovers (the Stage 8 electronically controlled set), so you can't rely on those for troubleshooting purposes.
I was unfortunate enough to spend $5K+ on parts for a 2.5" coilover lift from Icon Dynamics with their adjustable coil overs and billet UCA. Immediately after install, it was obvious there was a major design flaw as the UCA left no room for the hose between the reservoir and shock body. Absolutely no position you can move/rotate the reservoir that buys enough space not to have issues. Dusty has admitted as as much in the main Icon Dynamics Lift thread. This rubbing was bad enough that I had exposed braided steel after one quick test drive. After calling the company several times for help and getting nowhere, I hopped on the forums to see if its a known issue and find this:
Well, I gave it my best. After multiple emails to Scott (starting Sept 12), contacting Dusty here asking why I wasn't getting a response from Scott, and trying via telephone - I am now stuck with a Bronco that is undrivable due to safety concerns. The best I get is "I'll let Scott know". Dusty has always been polite, but being polite isn't fixing my vehicle. The one and only e-mail I received back (sept 13) was essentially a 'canned' response, and their preferred option was completely removing the coil overs, ship them back to Icon, wait for Icon to swap the hoses and fittings and then wait for return shipping. I guess I'm supposed to just leave my Bronco on jack stands on my front lawn or something..? I asked for clarification and never heard back. I also asked if they could ship me the updated coilovers to install and I would ship the defective pair back (pretty standard practice when a company sells a known defective product) - Once again, I've not received an answer of any type.
Dusty took exception to the fact that I already called him/her out once for this, so I want to be very specific - Dusty has indeed replied back with "I'll let Scott know" multiple times.. with zero follow up after. I hope that was specific enough for you not to take exception, Dusty. I would've much rather prefer you take exception to the fact that your company sold me a defective product and refused to support it.
Quote from Scott in the one e-mail I received, further admitting to a design flaw:
" Once more guys were installing these in the wild and the issue became apparent, our engineers did revise the hose configuration for production to improve overall clearance. The new hose config clears much better makes this final fit up MUCH easier. So another option, we can swap the hoses on your coilovers to this new config. This would also get rid of the damaged hose and give you the latest version so you don’t have to try and fiddle with the hoses any more. Two birds one stone. This would probably involve sending the shocks in to us, but I can help facilitate that and get them back to you quickly if you want to go that route. "
The first option for those curious was fiddling with the UCA joints as I ended up doing, though no instructions were ever provided.
Be warned - Without a large adjustment to the billet UCA, you will likely be unable to clear the reservoir hose which can lead to the fittings being backed off when your shock rebounds over any bumps. I had this happen just pulling in my driveway over a gentle curb after a ~30 second test drive and lost some shock oil. I was able to retighten the fitting, but now I have a coilover missing about ~1 oz of shock oil. It may need service already, I honestly don't know. That is one of many questions that have gone unanswered so far.
I have 1/16th to MAYBE 1/8th of an inch of clearance on each side of the reservoir hose after the adjustment. Keep in mind that the adjustment points on the billet UCA are primarily to dial in castor/camber - not create pockets for the hose. If you move the two heim joints out equally, the top of your tire also moves away from the Bronco the same amount. I'm hoping to find a shop that can align the suspension with this amount of camber or else I'll have to take the UCA's off yet again and try to remove some camber without crushing the hose more. The amount of camber is easily visible to the eye and I'm not sure the eccentric bolts on the LCA will be able to pull camber back within spec. Still waiting for shop appt to find out for sure.
At the end of the day, going on two weeks later (its now Friday afternoon on the 23rd and have no hopes of hearing back before the weekend), I still have absolutely no clue on what needs to happen to make my vehicle safe to drive again. Do yourself a favor and just hold out for a brand that is going to support its customers. When your life and vehicle are on the line, can you really trust a company that won't support its product - even after admitting to design flaws? I only have 37" tires now or I would take the lift kit off and just go back to factory, but alas - not an option. I've started calling around to third party suspension shops to help sort this out and the cheapest rate Ive found so far is $100/hour just to diagnose. Since Icon won't help, I think my only option is to pay for having custom hoses mounted and the shocks serviced. RIP my wallet.
Who knows, maybe I'm being unreasonable. I'm not looking to cause problems - I was hoping for solutions. Instead I have a $5,000+ liability installed on my Bronco. I'm sure a lot of people will say they've had good experience with Icon and that's fine, but in my opinion, you measure a company on how it responds to the tougher problems. In this case, they left me out to dry. Maybe its a fluke? Lets hope so. Hopefully I'm the only one who ends up with this safety issue, but the company is handling it in the worst way possible.
Heck - maybe there was an easy solution I missed. If the company had bothered to follow up, I'd know for certain right now.
BUYER BEWARE.
I'd love to post more of the email etc, but Icon Dynamics includes a boilerplate disclaimer in all emails that reads as follows:
"The contents of this e-mail message and any attachments are confidential and are intended solely for addressee. The information may also be legally privileged. This transmission is sent in trust, for the sole purpose of delivery to the intended recipient. If you have received this transmission in error, any use, reproduction or dissemination of this transmission is strictly prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please immediately notify the sender by reply e-mail or phone and delete this message and its attachments, if any."
While not legally enforceable, I'd rather not deal with the hassle.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
More detailed information you can skip unless interested:
If you have the Icon's installed and have any rubbing - keep a really close eye on the ~30 degree fitting in particular. Pressure to the hose can apply torque and back the threads loose really quickly.
The area in blue is where the torque is applied from rubbing between the coil over and UCA (I could see it happen in real time by letting my tire droop and then jacking the LCA up). The fitting circled in red will potentially back off due to the twisting of the hose as it tries to get out of the way of the UCA. Was this caused by a quality control issue? Was the fitting never properly torqued? Who knows. I don't have a good photo handy, but the hose behind the blue circle is worn down to the steel braided section inside after just a couple miles of test drive in total. Took no time at all. The angle of the reservoir in the photo was chosen because it pushes the hose into the coil as hard as possible to avoid the sharp inner edge of the UCA. Before moving out the UCA, there wasn't any room to put a hose shield on to slow down the damage. I've tried looking for different angles, different mounting points or really any solution at all and found nothing. Keep in mind that in the photo above, the res line is completely smashed at full extension and will not move towards the pocket any further. The damage happened over mundane bumps - primarily the curb in front of my house.
(In laymen terms - when your Bronco hits a bump, the Icon billet arm pushes up rapidly, catches on the hose which causes it to spin a bit to the left, which backed the fitting off and allowed the magic fluid inside to drip out.)
Will this be an issue for every single Bronco with this kit/combination? Probably not.
There seems to be a good amount of variances between Broncos that allows some to get a solid fit while others can't at all - much like the other Icon safety concern right now*. Tube UCA's are probably a bit better because they're rounded and won't eat into your hose as quickly (which prevents leverage), but I would still watch for rubbing to avoid the fitting backing off. Like I said, no clue if it was poor quality control etc. No clue about other brand UCA's, but I'm sure wishing I went Camburg or something. A loose fitting by itself isn't the end of the world unless it happens when you're out somewhere remote.
Everything below is just reference material.
-----------------------------
My Bronco is a 21' Badlands Lux 2.7 w/Sas package.
The front coil overs are part number 48700c - 21-UP FORD BRONCO FRONT VS CDCV COILOVER KIT
The UCA is the Icon Dynamics 21 Bronco Billet UCA.
Total miles on the new suspension: ~10-15.
* The coilover spring will bind/rub and potentially damage your sway bar and/or rub against your tie rod do to faulty designed mounting pin
(Funny enough, I did DM Dusty about this pin as well and was told they were no longer available - they only made six?! The instructions were to watch their website and contact sales to eventually get one.)
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