Diesel engine swap options?

[TeocaliMG]

New proposal:

Toyota 1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 D Engine Specs, Problems, Reliability, oil - In-Depth Review (motorreviewer.com)

I am not a Toyota shill, but they hit more than they miss. I dont know how I never heard about this engine before, but to be fair I never really was interested in the Toyota lineage.

Seems like a solid engine. My main gripe is the fact that its DOHC. Makes the engine much larger than its displacement would otherwise. It's a perplexing choice for a diesel.

I know there are many DOHC, but the main reason to have DOHC IMO is to implement variable valve timing, which is less and less useful the lower the operational RPM band of the engine. The payoff for a diesel is minimal, especially when weighed against the reliability and simplicity proposition of pushrods. The 6.7 powerstroke and 6.6 duramax have way more power per liter with cam in block pushrods.

If this Toyota turbo-diesel V8 was a 4.5 liter pushrod I would buy one without hesitation and figure out the swap later. But given that its DOHC, I really have to research if its even possible to fit... Also its still a 794lb engine, quite a penalty for only 270hp... but us diesel fans are willing to eat some weight for better power delivery, range, and economy.


To reiterate an earlier point, I still think the best shot of an engine swap would be a group effort. Not sure if we could all ever agree on a single platform. 3.0 powerstroke is the easiest fit, but is just a POS engine compared to some of these other options. As much as I like the 6.7, it is just plain insane in this application. So, I propose the 1VD-FTV.

Perhaps if there were a few of us willing to put down deposits we could convince a crew like Diesel Toys to investigate the feasibility and put together a conversion that doesnt cost 30k (huffs hopium).


Edit:
Heres a link to diesel toys if you haven't heard of them: Home | Dieseltoys
Do your own due diligence and read every word in the FAQ's before messaging them, if you want to message them. From talking with them, they seem to think they can swap just about anything. Problem is they focus on OEM type swaps within Toyota platforms. This means they swap a ton of electronics over. The key for the Bronco would be the opposite, to essentially swap nothing but the power plant. Requiring (electronically) at minimum a new PCM harness with pinouts matched best as possible, at most, an intermediate module with special code to work. Swapping any other module will cause more issues than it resolves. Just my 2c.

Also, I dont have a BSFC chart, but I see mileage estimates from 19(city)-25(hwy) in the LC200 with the twin turbo variant, which puts it more near the 6.7 for BSFC (good), much better than the 3.0 "powerstroke"

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[CarmeloS]

New proposal:

Toyota 1VD-FTV 4.5L V8 D Engine Specs, Problems, Reliability, oil - In-Depth Review (motorreviewer.com)

I am not a Toyota shill, but they hit more than they miss. I dont know how I never heard about this engine before, but to be fair I never really was interested in the Toyota lineage.

Seems like a solid engine. My main gripe is the fact that its DOHC. Makes the engine much larger than its displacement would otherwise. It's a perplexing choice for a diesel.

I know there are many DOHC, but the main reason to have DOHC IMO is to implement variable valve timing, which is less and less useful the lower the operational RPM band of the engine. The payoff for a diesel is minimal, especially when weighed against the reliability and simplicity proposition of pushrods. The 6.7 powerstroke and 6.6 duramax have way more power per liter with cam in block pushrods.

If this Toyota turbo-diesel V8 was a 4.5 liter pushrod I would buy one without hesitation and figure out the swap later. But given that its DOHC, I really have to research if its even possible to fit... Also its still a 794lb engine, quite a penalty for only 270hp... but us diesel fans are willing to eat some weight for better power delivery, range, and economy.


To reiterate an earlier point, I still think the best shot of an engine swap would be a group effort. Not sure if we could all ever agree on a single platform. 3.0 powerstroke is the easiest fit, but is just a POS engine compared to some of these other options. As much as I like the 6.7, it is just plain insane in this application. So, I propose the 1VD-FTV.

Perhaps if there were a few of us willing to put down deposits we could convince a crew like Diesel Toys to investigate the feasibility and put together a conversion that doesnt cost 30k (huffs hopium).


Edit:
Heres a link to diesel toys if you haven't heard of them: Home | Dieseltoys
Do your own due diligence and read every word in the FAQ's before messaging them, if you want to message them. From talking with them, they seem to think they can swap just about anything. Problem is they focus on OEM type swaps within Toyota platforms. This means they swap a ton of electronics over. The key for the Bronco would be the opposite, to essentially swap nothing but the power plant. Requiring (electronically) at minimum a new PCM harness with pinouts matched best as possible, at most, an intermediate module with special code to work. Swapping any other module will cause more issues than it resolves. Just my 2c.

Also, I dont have a BSFC chart, but I see mileage estimates from 19(city)-25(hwy) in the LC200 with the twin turbo variant, which puts it more near the 6.7 for BSFC (good), much better than the 3.0 "powerstroke"

I was thinking their 1GD-FTV with some tuning and a custom fmic would do the trick

 

[TeocaliMG]

I was thinking their 1GD-FTV with some tuning and a custom fmic would do the trick

Thats the practical choice and I'd definitely settle for that if it was the only option. But I would still want to verify if the 1VD could fit. if a the PCM could be made to work for one, it would surely work for the other.

I think the key is if the engine could be made to run just on its own PCM, no inputs needed from TCM or BCM. Modern diesels are so integrated its really frustrating. Especially because gas crate motors are a dime a dozen and all are available with a single operational PCM. Someone needs to make crate motor style PCM's for modern production diesel motors. i'd start the business if I had any idea what I was doing electronically...

All that aside, where can one reliably get either of these motors? If I could buy a 1VD for less than 5k (thats not blown) I think I would. At the very least, i'd start an accurate 3D model for swapping.

 

[CarmeloS]

Thats the practical choice and I'd definitely settle for that if it was the only option. But I would still want to verify if the 1VD could fit. if a the PCM could be made to work for one, it would surely work for the other.

I think the key is if the engine could be made to run just on its own PCM, no inputs needed from TCM or BCM. Modern diesels are so integrated its really frustrating. Especially because gas crate motors are a dime a dozen and all are available with a single operational PCM. Someone needs to make crate motor style PCM's for modern production diesel motors. i'd start the business if I had any idea what I was doing electronically...

All that aside, where can one reliably get either of these motors? If I could buy a 1VD for less than 5k (thats not blown) I think I would. At the very least, i'd start an accurate 3D model for swapping.

When ya find out, definitely let me know.

I take annual roadtrips to Florida, it’d be nice w/my smol 2dr fuel tank not to have to stop every state to full back up. I’d give up power for range, especially since the current ecu on the 2.3 is still locked and there aint nothing more to do power wise

 

[TeocaliMG]

When ya find out, definitely let me know.

I take annual roadtrips to Florida, it’d be nice w/my smol 2dr fuel tank not to have to stop every state to full back up. I’d give up power for range, especially since the current ecu on the 2.3 is still locked and there aint nothing more to do power wise

Do you have a manual? Thats the other piece of the puzzle, I think swapping in a donor trans to work with the donor motor, will be a nightmare to integrate into the Bronco unless you gut the shift knob and drive modes. Similarly, getting a donor motor to work with an OEM automatic may be extremely difficult (unless limiting to ford trans and ford diesels)

With a Manual, you can at least ignore the fussing from the TCM since you are doing the shifting. I know the manual market is very small, but I wonder how many auto owners would consider manual if that was the way to get a diesel swap?

 

[TeocaliMG]

Hey Guys, I have created an official group for this discussion. Please join if you are interested in discussing this topic more seriously.

6G Bronco Diesel Team | Bronco6G - 2021+ Ford Bronco & Bronco Raptor Forum, News, Blog & Owners Community

 

[CarmeloS]

Do you have a manual? Thats the other piece of the puzzle, I think swapping in a donor trans to work with the donor motor, will be a nightmare to integrate into the Bronco unless you gut the shift knob and drive modes. Similarly, getting a donor motor to work with an OEM automatic may be extremely difficult (unless limiting to ford trans and ford diesels)

With a Manual, you can at least ignore the fussing from the TCM since you are doing the shifting. I know the manual market is very small, but I wonder how many auto owners would consider manual if that was the way to get a diesel swap?

Yeah, and I miss rowing gears, driving my parents range rovers for fun as I wait for the shop next door to get to my truck. Sure, the Supercharged V8 is a monster of a truck, but rather row gears with my tuned up Bronco.

How much do our 2.3's and 2.7's weigh? Think the dry weight of the 1GD-FTV is 418lbs (Sauce).

 

[Chrome_Pony]

Hope it's not manual dependent.

I would much rather have the on-demand torque and mileage of a diesel, but would prefer to keep the auto, the TCM programming on these 10R60s is pretty damn decent, that plus the on-demand kickdown/overdrive of the +/- would be a pretty good match to the diesel provided the R60 can survive the torque input.

 

[CarmeloS]

Hope it's not manual dependent.

I would much rather have the on-demand torque and mileage of a diesel, but would prefer to keep the auto, the TCM programming on these 10R60s is pretty damn decent, that plus the on-demand kickdown/overdrive of the +/- would be a pretty good match to the diesel provided the R60 can survive the torque input.

Sure we could jigamarig it to work, especially with the extra gearing for better mpg. I just like the idea of a Diesel manual personally

 

[TeocaliMG]

Yeah, and I miss rowing gears, driving my parents range rovers for fun as I wait for the shop next door to get to my truck. Sure, the Supercharged V8 is a monster of a truck, but rather row gears with my tuned up Bronco.

How much do our 2.3's and 2.7's weigh? Think the dry weight of the 1GD-FTV is 418lbs (Sauce).

I have the 2.3 recorded as 418 with full accessory but I think Ford performance shows 311 which is probably closer to a dry weight comparison. I know a diesel is going to weigh more. What's a reasonable weight penalty is going to be up to the user. If you are looking for high speed desert performance over all else, you probably aren't looking at a diesel swap anyway.

My unofficial limit would be the 6.7 at 990 lbs. That weight would have major ramifications for front end suspension tuning, but I might tolerate that for the most efficient 500hp possible. The reason I even mention this is because I know folks would love the 5.9 Cummins, that engine would take even more work to fit, and is over 1100 lbs. just absurd for this. So hard cap at the 6.7 for me.

The 3.0 powerstroke by comparison is 501 lbs. In my opinion that is utterly a non-issue. and the duramax is even lighter, as well as the 1GD as you pointed out.

The 1VD is just shy of 800lbs. So its getting up there to where you would need custom front coilover tuning, but is less ridiculous than something like the 6.7 obviously. In my opinion its the sweep spot between too heavy, and able to make great power very efficiently. Also, unlike the 6.7, it is more of a revving diesel, making peak power up around 3000 rpm. The 6.7, even among diesels makes power very low, so low it will grenade any trans not meant for it, or protected via gear reduction.

 

[HighVelocity]

The only diesel I'd be interested in these days is if it's just a generator recharging batteries to run electric axles, as in what Edison Motors is doing with their logging trucks and soon-to-be 1.5 ton diesel-electric pickup truck conversion (which I'm on the list for getting either my F350 or F550 converted).

The EPA has killed diesels for reliability in the US. I'm tired of spending thousands every time one of those trucks goes into the shop.

 

[CarmeloS]

The only diesel I'd be interested in these days is if it's just a generator recharging batteries to run electric axles, as in what Edison Motors is doing with their logging trucks and soon-to-be 1.5 ton diesel-electric pickup truck conversion (which I'm on the list for getting either my F350 or F550 converted).

The EPA has killed diesels for reliability in the US. I'm tired of spending thousands every time one of those trucks goes into the shop.

Someone needs to kill off the EPA and repeal CAFE

 

[TeocaliMG]

The only diesel I'd be interested in these days is if it's just a generator recharging batteries to run electric axles, as in what Edison Motors is doing with their logging trucks and soon-to-be 1.5 ton diesel-electric pickup truck conversion (which I'm on the list for getting either my F350 or F550 converted).

The EPA has killed diesels for reliability in the US. I'm tired of spending thousands every time one of those trucks goes into the shop.

Making it a generator doesn't really insulate it from reliability issues at all, and introduces potentially more, as well as weight.

It should be assumed for any of these swaps, that some level of aftermarket tuning would be used, and the engine would be deleted. No EGR, no DPF etc. With those items gone, and good fuel filtering, most modern diesels are quite reliable actually. Much more likely to make it to 500k than an ecoboost.

I like my ecoboost, but if it made it to 500k miles with 37" tires and a lift, I would be incredibly surprised. Though 500k may be an admittedly high bar for an off-road vehicle

 

[HighVelocity]

Making it a generator doesn't really insulate it from reliability issues at all, and introduces potentially more, as well as weight.

It should be assumed for any of these swaps, that some level of aftermarket tuning would be used, and the engine would be deleted. No EGR, no DPF etc. With those items gone, and good fuel filtering, most modern diesels are quite reliable actually. Much more likely to make it to 500k than an ecoboost.

I like my ecoboost, but if it made it to 500k miles with 37" tires and a lift, I would be incredibly surprised. Though 500k may be an admittedly high bar for an off-road vehicle

In the generator role, the engine only fires when needed, and runs at a single RPM. This alone increases MTBF.

Yes, there's more weight, but there's also much more torque from the electric axles to move it.

 

[TeocaliMG]

I will add that i've stated multiple times that i'm not a huge fan of the 3.0 powerstroke, but most of that is based on its legacy in the F-150.

I'm aware that the Aussie version has many changes, some of which may be a boon for its reliability. Also considering I want to delete the EGR anyway, that takes care of the reliability. EGR was a huge issue for the 3.0. Its BSFC is still worse than the 6.7, and probably the 1VD, but the power to weight is pretty good.

Until recently, I was not sure how to acquire the Aussie version though, but while researching the 1VD, i've figured out how to acquire a new version of either. (as well as the 1GD) so those 3 are all on the table for me as I try to figure out the best way to integrate the electronics.

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