E85 Question

[GA2Dr]

Forgive me if this has already been addressed but I did a bunch of searching and didn't see a direct answer.

I have some bolt ons and ProCal tune. I run 93 exclusively but have lots of stations around with e85. My question is two part: first can e85 be safely added to 93 fuel without a specific tune (seems like the answer is yes but want to confirm ). The second and more important question: is there any benefit to adding some e85 given my current setup? If I'm understanding correctly adding a few gallons of e85 would effectively raise the octane rating of the tank of gas. Is that right? Without a specific tune will it increase power? I know the ECU can adjust parameters based on octane but wondering if going above 93 will make any difference?

Thanks in advance

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[Ducati1098]

Yes. You can typically mix up to ~30% ethanol safely on the factory tune, or with any other non-custom tune.

Is there any benefit? It will pick up some power, but really not a whole lot without custom tuning.
I did it a few times before I had a custom E85 tune. I couldn’t really notice much of a difference. So in my opinion it was just more trouble than it was worth

 

[GA2Dr]

Yes. You can typically mix up to ~30% ethanol safely on the factory tune, or with any other non-custom tune.

Is there any benefit? It will pick up some power, but really not a whole lot without custom tuning.
I did it a few times before I had a custom E85 tune. I couldn’t really notice much of a difference. So in my opinion it was just more trouble than it was worth

Thanks - that's kind of what I was thinking. I might give it a shot just to see but doesn't seem like it's worth the effort.

 

[SierraBronco]

I’m not sure if the broncos have a high enough capacity to supply the requisite volume of E85 to support high flow injectors, but if they did and you got injectors and a tune, you could have significant horsepower gains. My rappy pickup was @GooseTuned with 1050cc injectors and that mofo was faster than a TRX and could hang with Raptor R IF I had good E85 in there. Consistency varies and in Utah the stuff was very hard to find. Wyoming has awesome E85. New Mexico was pretty weak and the stations would frequently run out. I ended up swapping back to the 91 tune and just sticking with that. Fuel economy dropped off significantly too, even when I wasn’t driving like an a-hole.

 

[Ducati1098]

I’m not sure if the broncos have a high enough capacity to supply the requisite volume of E85 to support high flow injectors, but if they did and you got injectors and a tune, you could have significant horsepower gains. My rappy pickup was @GooseTuned with 1050cc injectors and that mofo was faster than a TRX and could hang with Raptor R IF I had good E85 in there. Consistency varies and in Utah the stuff was very hard to find. Wyoming has awesome E85. New Mexico was pretty weak and the stations would frequently run out. I ended up swapping back to the 91 tune and just sticking with that. Fuel economy dropped off significantly too, even when I wasn’t driving like an a-hole.

With the 2.7, you don’t need to worry about fuel system for E85 on a custom tune until you start going to larger turbos. And even then (depending on the turbos and goals) slightly larger port injectors were enough for me.

Braptors are a different story though because of the DI only. Those will need fuel system modifications regardless to run full E85

 

[SierraBronco]

With the 2.7, you don’t need to worry about fuel system for E85 on a custom tune until you start going to larger turbos. And even then (depending on the turbos and goals) slightly larger port injectors were enough for me.

Braptors are a different story though because of the DI only. Those will need fuel system modifications regardless to run full E85

Yeah with the 3.5 we only did the port injectors. And I did not know the 3.0 is still DI only. Bad call Ford. Bad call

 

[Ducati1098]

Yeah with the 3.5 we only did the port injectors. And I did not know the 3.0 is still DI only. Bad call Ford. Bad call

Yeah really blows my mind that they haven’t updated it like the 2.7 yet. Not really sure what they’re waiting for

 

[crenca]

Yes. You can typically mix up to ~30% ethanol safely on the factory tune, or with any other non-custom tune.

Is there any benefit? It will pick up some power, but really not a whole lot without custom tuning.

Assuming @GA2Dr local premium gas is really 93 (apparently in some local situations it can be overrated) he won't gain any power by mixing in E85 because the (relatively mild) Ford Performance tune can not take advantage. He can confirm this by adding the gauge "Lrnd_Knk_Mod" to his ProCal while running the engine. If the value is "-1.00" (which it should be if he is running 93) the tune has applied the most aggressive timing advancement it is programed to, so there is no additional power forthcoming by increasing anti-knock (octane) by mixing in E85. If the gauge indicates anything greater (for example, -.86 or +.23) then the tune is sensing knock and retarding timing and not getting the full benefit of the FP tune.

If I run the premium 91 in my area alone (no 93 in my area), my Lrnd_Knk_Mod value hangs around -.5 ish. By mixing in about 3 gallons of E85 with every tank it remains at maximum (-1.0).

Hope all this makes sense...

 

[Brian_B]

If I run the premium 91 in my area alone (no 93 in my area), my Lrnd_Knk_Mod value hangs around -.5 ish.

Same and same with ProCal tune on the 2.3. I haven’t tried mixing any e85 to see if I can get down to -1.00 though

 

[Ducati1098]

Assuming @GA2Dr local premium gas is really 93 (apparently in some local situations it can be overrated) he won't gain any power by mixing in E85 because the (relatively mild) Ford Performance tune can not take advantage. He can confirm this by adding the gauge "Lrnd_Knk_Mod" to his ProCal while running the engine. If the value is "-1.00" (which it should be if he is running 93) the tune has applied the most aggressive timing advancement it is programed to, so there is no additional power forthcoming by increasing anti-knock (octane) by mixing in E85. If the gauge indicates anything greater (for example, -.86 or +.23) then the tune is sensing knock and retarding timing and not getting the full benefit of the FP tune.

If I run the premium 91 in my area alone (no 93 in my area), my Lrnd_Knk_Mod value hangs around -.5 ish. By mixing in about 3 gallons of E85 with every tank it remains at maximum (-1.0).

Hope all this makes sense...

100%
You’re never going to fully capitalize on its potential without an actual E85 tune, but there are still advantages whether it’s tuned specifically for it or not.
It’s not all about knock. Depending on the situation, it’s not unrealistic to say running an E30 blend could make more power in some situations thanks in part to the cooling effects of ethanol and the far more oxygen rich fuel.

But I think we both agree, it’s minuscule and mostly unnecessary.

 

[MWILD]

I’ve consistently seen gains of two tenths of a second in my 0-60 times via a Dragy when using a mix of E30. This was with the stock tune and the Ford Performance tune. It’s probably not worth the headache for most people, but there are gains.

 

[crenca]

I’ve consistently seen gains of two tenths of a second in my 0-60 times via a Dragy when using a mix of E30.

This is vs. 91 or 93 (no E85 mixed)?

 

[MWILD]

93 vs. 93 + E85 to equal E30 using an ethanol calculator

 

[GooseTuned]

I’m not sure if the broncos have a high enough capacity to supply the requisite volume of E85 to support high flow injectors, but if they did and you got injectors and a tune, you could have significant horsepower gains. My rappy pickup was @GooseTuned with 1050cc injectors and that mofo was faster than a TRX and could hang with Raptor R IF I had good E85 in there. Consistency varies and in Utah the stuff was very hard to find. Wyoming has awesome E85. New Mexico was pretty weak and the stations would frequently run out. I ended up swapping back to the 91 tune and just sticking with that. Fuel economy dropped off significantly too, even when I wasn’t driving like an a-hole.

Thanks man!!!

The 2.7 is good to run full e85 as Ducati said, they lucked out haha!

 

[SierraBronco]

Thanks man!!!

The 2.7 is good to run full e85 as Ducati said, they lucked out haha!

Just need Cobb to get a solution for it! Sitting on three of them at the moment

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