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MWILD

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What AFR or lambda are you targeting at WOT since that motor is using direct injection. I find it interesting that the factory fuel system is able to keep up with the fuel amount needed with E85.
I think 12.9, but the tuner could tell you for sure. The 2.7 is direct and port injection. The 2.3 and 3.0 are DI only.
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I think 12.9, but the tuner could tell you for sure. The 2.7 is direct and port injection. The 2.3 and 3.0 are DI only.
Hmm, ok, you really should know that. Most Dyno graphs I've worked with have that tracked below the main graph because it's important. Unless you are buying E85 in 5 or 55 gallon drums, the pump stuff can vary wildly in energy content throughout a year. Also E85 generally requires more fuel during cold starts. Though direct injection may help with that so it doesn't need so much.

Tuning doesn't find free power in reality. Generally tunes allow them to optimize the combination of parts in your particular vehicle but that also means there is less room for the variables of life, including inconstant fuel. The factory tunes are based on the safest way to support the warranty and hit emissions across the variables that happen during production. Tuning lets you take this particular version and optimize it. Just be careful.
 

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I doubt its 12.9 afr. That would be pump NA WOT afr and even then that would be boarderline LEAN. Its probably 11.0 at WOT for a boosted engine for 93. That would be like .78 lambda. Maybe even 11.5 from the factory. I'd have to log mine and see. If I know anything, its that these Ford PI/DI motors like lots of fuel and do not take kindly to running on the leaner side.

For full E stoich would be 9.80 and .78 lambda at WOT would be 7.65 AFR. That would be full E. And very safe/boost happy fueling. You could stretch that to .79-.80 but again these engines if they are like many other Ford PI/DI engines, they like fuel and wont make any more power being leaned out.
 

BadmansSAS

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Hmm, ok, you really should know that. Most Dyno graphs I've worked with have that tracked below the main graph because it's important. Unless you are buying E85 in 5 or 55 gallon drums, the pump stuff can vary wildly in energy content throughout a year. Also E85 generally requires more fuel during cold starts. Though direct injection may help with that so it doesn't need so much.

Tuning doesn't find free power in reality. Generally tunes allow them to optimize the combination of parts in your particular vehicle but that also means there is less room for the variables of life, including inconstant fuel. The factory tunes are based on the safest way to support the warranty and hit emissions across the variables that happen during production. Tuning lets you take this particular version and optimize it. Just be careful.
Eh to a point. You can always add more timing and lean out factory fueling for power enrichment. With the coyote engines, you get the most power in N/A form from just the timing and fueling changes you can make for E85. Those cars will pick up 50+ hp to the tire with just an E tune. Nothing else. Sure adding a cold air intake and headers will help, but the majority of the extra power comes from adding octane and the timing changes that come with it.
 

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True, but E85 at the pump is not something that you can always expect to be the same octane. that's my point. without being aware of the AFR or lambda, you really don't know how safe the tune is for a given load.

It also takes a lot more e85 to make that power than straight gasoline. Thus, it's surprising that the stock fuel system was up for a boost.
 

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True, but E85 at the pump is not something that you can always expect to be the same octane. that's my point. without being aware of the AFR or lambda, you really don't know how safe the tune is for a given load.

It also takes a lot more e85 to make that power than straight gasoline. Thus, it's surprising that the stock fuel system was up for a boost.
Usually any of the Ford engines that have both DI and PI fuel systems on board are easily capable of doing full E with light mods. Now if you wanted to make say 600 to the tire with bigger turbos, you'd need a return fuel system with triple pumps and so on. But as it sits, its not a big surprise.

As for the octane instability from pump to pump , thats the beauty of these running in closed loop all the time with wide bands. Most tuners should/would run the stoich at 10.0 rather than 9.8 since most pump E85 is really E70ish. Then the WBs will use the short term fuel trims to correct for any under or over from there. Its quite safe if you are in the ball park + or - 10%. If you can get consistent E from a trusted source, then you can really dial in the stoich and get your fuel trims to near zero from idle to WOT. I had my whipple GT dialed in to where it was adding/subtracting .8 to 1.6% from idle to WOT with my e30 blend. Car was damn near perfectly dialed. You cant get much better than that.
 
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BadmansSAS

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True, but E85 at the pump is not something that you can always expect to be the same octane. that's my point. without being aware of the AFR or lambda, you really don't know how safe the tune is for a given load.

It also takes a lot more e85 to make that power than straight gasoline. Thus, it's surprising that the stock fuel system was up for a boost.
Oh and yes Im a data logger. I wouldnt almost drive my mustang without a log running. Any hiccup I would catch and be able to trim out. Once I had the car dialed, then I could relax on that and just enjoy it. But every rip at the drag strip, I had a log running. Thats invaluable data you wont ever get back if you miss it and something happens. I cant see that being something your common man would do obv, but if dialed in correctly from the jump then you wont have to worry about it. Plus you can test the E at the pump with the basic E testers from amazon and you will know if you need to go elsewhere or if that E is ok to use. Here in FL we see anywhere from E70 at the racetrac gas stations to E90 at the GATE station near my house. All the racecars go there to get E including me.
 

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Oh and yes Im a data logger.
Same here. I haven't had a vehicle I logged regularly since 2006 but 2004-2006 I built up a motor and power system that more than doubled the factory hp and torque and I watched it closely. In fact, that's how I knew I needed more fuel and had planned a new fuel system, but life got in the way, and I sold the car, and the plans never happened. I could also see the variations in octane from tank to tank. At some times of the year it could be significant, particularly if you travel a longer distance to get to an event.
 

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Thanks!

Yup, and there’s more headroom with a down-pipe, though if I wanna see 500+ WHP I’m gonna need to swap the turbos. Then I’m gonna start worrying about the transmission and drivetrain.

The Braptor is expected to see 75-100 WHP gains on the 93 tune and 150 WHP or so on E50. Should be enough to easily beat a Wrangler 392.
Unless it's a tuned 392 which is still NA. It mostly comes down to whose wallet is fatter which is definitely not me. I love threads like this. Thanks to all those pushing the envelope of the platform.
 

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Thanks!

Yup, and there’s more headroom with a down-pipe, though if I wanna see 500+ WHP I’m gonna need to swap the turbos. Then I’m gonna start worrying about the transmission and drivetrain.

The Braptor is expected to see 75-100 WHP gains on the 93 tune and 150 WHP or so on E50. Should be enough to easily beat a Wrangler 392.

You Da man! Got my cat-back CVF exhaust on today. Hoping to have time to install the downpipes next weekend. Thanks for your continued inspiration.
 

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Hmm, ok, you really should know that. Most Dyno graphs I've worked with have that tracked below the main graph because it's important. Unless you are buying E85 in 5 or 55 gallon drums, the pump stuff can vary wildly in energy content throughout a year. Also E85 generally requires more fuel during cold starts. Though direct injection may help with that so it doesn't need so much.

Tuning doesn't find free power in reality. Generally tunes allow them to optimize the combination of parts in your particular vehicle but that also means there is less room for the variables of life, including inconstant fuel. The factory tunes are based on the safest way to support the warranty and hit emissions across the variables that happen during production. Tuning lets you take this particular version and optimize it. Just be careful.

I appreciate your concern. I’m new to the world of custom tuning, but Adam at ZFG has a great reputation when it comes to Ecoboost tuning. That’s why I waited for him to offer tuning over anyone else. I also logged all the dyno runs and sent them to him. He didn’t have any cause for concern after reviewing them. Regardless, I do plan to start learning more about the process as it’s super interesting. Enjoying the conversation between you badmansas 👍
 
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MWILD - great post. Thanks! I readily admit this stuff is above my pay-grade and I have a heavy rig that needs some power before heading down to Baja. In terms of performance, I have a Corsa R exhaust. Planning Injen CAI and sweet red charge pipes plus an oil catch-can, blow-off valve and Ford Performance Tune.

Was curious why you went with CVF intercooler and if you'd recommend? I thought the Whipple was the "biggest/best" but guys like you are obviously the pros.

How important is the spark-plug upgrade.? It seems cheap but not sure why needed versus stock. THANKS
 
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MWILD - great post. Thanks! I readily admit this stuff is above my pay-grade and I have a heavy rig that needs some power before heading down to Baja. In terms of performance, I have a Corsa R exhaust. Planning Injen CAI and sweet red charge pipes plus an oil catch-can, blow-off valve and Ford Performance Tune.

Was curious why you went with CVF intercooler and if you'd recommend? I thought the Whipple was the "biggest/best" but guys like you are obviously the pros.

How important is the spark-plug upgrade.? It seems cheap but not sure why needed versus stock. THANKS
Thanks! Went with the CVF IC because of the price to performance. Much less expensive with similar specs. I made a video about it if you wanna check it out. Also, I went with the plugs based on what my tuner recommended. Same gap and plugs work fine with the Ford ProCal.
 

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Thanks! Went with the CVF IC because of the price to performance. Much less expensive with similar specs. I made a video about it if you wanna check it out. Also, I went with the plugs based on what my tuner recommended. Same gap and plugs work fine with the Ford ProCal.
OMG! You're Full Speed Ford Bronco! Already subscribed for awhile. I've watched a bunch of your stuff (thanks) but didn't watch this latest video since I have no interest in E85 so didn't connect your 2 identities. I'll follow your lead on CVF intercooler and spark plugs. Thanks again and please keep up the great and informative content!
 
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OMG! You're Full Speed Ford Bronco! Already subscribed for awhile. I've watched a bunch of your stuff (thanks) but didn't watch this latest video since I have no interest in E85 so didn't connect your 2 identities. I'll follow your lead on CVF intercooler and spark plugs.
Haha, yeah that's me. Maybe I should change my name on here of come up with a better Youtube channel name to avoid confusion :)
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