Estimated initial production capacities / constraints for 2024 Bronco

[BigHoof]

No deal, they just built what we had in the bank (mostly WTs with all the sins). There was vague reference to pull forward but why would that have any impact on what we should be getting going forward? The whole thing was sell to earn. We received no "stock" and only have one unreported sold unit on the ground due to it getting up fit. So what will happen is all the dealers that didn't push to sell will be getting allocation along with the large dealers that gamed the system and got a bunch of stock. We've only gotten roughly 30 for each of the last two model years, all retail orders with the exception of the one stock unit I'm driving as my demo. They seriously think my 20 sold retails I'll have for the next model year is problematic? Shit, it's not like I'm asking for 50. I may sound like a bitch for complaining but this whole allocation thing has been a sham from the beginning for customers as well as a lot of dealers. I could understand if we had a bunch of stock units sitting around because we were trying to hold out for ADM, but to get absolutely nothing for the entire model year is just whack. Guarantee the metro guys around me who got tons of stock and were taking heads off will be getting plenty of retail and stock.

Granger gets zero allocations also. Not sure about Stevens or Chapman but I would expect more of the same. So where are all these extra allocations from all the good dealers getting screwed going to? The high Admin markup dealers that screw their customers?

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[johntesi]

Ohh Ford, you never cease to disappoint. I saw today was August 14 so I hopped on to the forums to see if maybe I could swallow the pain and order a new 2 door / manual Badlands to replace my ordered vehicle, even if I had to pay $5-6k more. The MSRP is more like $10k more and you can't even buy from any of the good guys. Or get a manual at all.

Can't wait for the new Land Cruiser...

 

[Dtronic]

I've had more Ford's than I can count, at least 20 since 1998. My F350 will be my last.

 

[flip]

Granger gets zero allocations also. Not sure about Stevens or Chapman but I would expect more of the same. So where are all these extra allocations from all the good dealers getting screwed going to? The high Admin markup dealers that screw their customers?

Here's how I see this. If the dealer has a bunch of unbuilt orders, stock or abandoned units on the lot they should get additional or incremental allocation for '24. Ford was telling dealer to clear the decks, basically dealers sitting on Broncos for high markups, because it would be held against them for '24. All of our orders have been produced and off the books with the exception of 2 HE Ltd. allocations and one retail order getting up fit. My question to Ford is how in the hell does the stuff they already built and delivered count against me in the future? It's not like they still have to build carryovers but that's how it's being treated. There is absolutely no impact on what they're going to build going forward. So instead of giving us 12-20 units to have some Bronco product to keep selling, my future allocation is basically taken away and dispersed to dealers with old orders in order to cover carryover. Those dealers will still have a stream of Bronco product coming in throughout at least part of the new model year while we sit here with NOTHING for a year and get to watch local customers go elsewhere to purchase.

We aren't greedy and understand there's only so much production to go around. My rub is we did everything we were supposed to and didn't get even half the allocation we did for '21 or '22. By default, Ford gave the shitty ADM dealers a license extension to keep f'ing customers by consolidating allocation to those same people. Unless Ford does the right thing and sends out a doc showing allocation of all dealers in that zone, the whole thing is rigged and proves it doesn't pay to follow the rules and do the right thing.

ETA: Sorry to keep whining but I'm pretty salty over this crap.

 

[teh603]

Granger gets zero allocations also. Not sure about Stevens or Chapman but I would expect more of the same. So where are all these extra allocations from all the good dealers getting screwed going to? The high Admin markup dealers that screw their customers?

We aren't greedy and understand there's only so much production to go around. My rub is we did everything we were supposed to and didn't get even half the allocation we did for '21 or '22. By default, Ford gave the shitty ADM dealers a license extension to keep f'ing customers by consolidating allocation to those same people. Unless Ford does the right thing and sends out a doc showing allocation of all dealers in that zone, the whole thing is rigged and proves it doesn't pay to follow the rules and do the right thing.

Does regional have any say in who gets what allocation? Because I know it was a thing for a while with Mavericks. And my personal theory is that *all* the regional offices have been playing favorites, for at least a couple of years, since I first discovered the Maverick (two months after the 2022 order banks closed, go figure). Because the ADM dealers never seems to have problems getting Mavericks onto the lot.

 

[Arrowbear Rider]

Question/clarification on the "pull forward" allocations above.

As a Flooring Auditor I've never seen allocations pulled forward, so am I reading this correct? A smaller dealership with say 20 units a year as their allocation sell/take orders for 80 or more units (total) in the first three years, they are over their allocation by 20 or more units. Maybe even more than a year's allocation over. And in this case Ford "pulled forward" allocation from year four to fill the customer orders on hand for MY23.

If that's the case, then I argue Ford did right by those customers, not the dealership. The little "good o'boy I'm doing it right by not adding ADM" over promised on how many they could deliver. And now they are upset over receiving MY24 allocations early in '23 to fill those extra orders they took? Wasn't this three years after the whole allocations thing came up? Did they keep taking too many orders into MY23 even after the last three years of allocation problems? Or were these all from three years ago?

Those customers got their orders today at today's prices and with today's trims and options available, many loaded WT with heavy constraints (his words). If they had been pushed into MY24, they would have been screwed royally.

I understand wanting to grow you're dealership, but I also know that if there wasn't any allocations that the "Big Guys" the really big dealerships down to the medium size dealers could have sold every Bronco built and filled the order banks with enough orders up front, WITH the flooring money there to cover all of the orders up front. How many Broncos would the small or smallest guys get then?

You can be mad that the big bad "stealership" get's too many units allocated while the honest little guys gets a small amount, but if you make widgets and for years or decades your biggest widget sellers sale 100 times what others sell, you're going to fill their orders first. They've invested in their dealerships and earned all those customers too, and have sold high numbers consistently. Who's getting more widgets to sell?

When production is way lower than demand, I argue that without allocations the little guys would have gotten no Broncos because the biggest down to medium size dealerships would have bought every Bronco before the small guys could have got their order even looked at.

 

[Arrowbear Rider]

my future allocation is basically taken away and dispersed to dealers with old orders in order to cover carryover.

We aren't greedy and understand there's only so much production to go around.

By default, Ford gave the shitty ADM dealers a license extension to keep f'ing customers by consolidating allocation to those same people.

If I'm reading this right, your future allocation was given to you to fill those extra WT orders you had, "pulled forward", so I would think those units came from someone else's allocation and now they are getting theirs after your back orders were filled. Am I understanding this wrong?

It's reading as if you're mad about getting extra units early "pulled forward" and now getting nothing until you get caught up and using the "big bad ADM dealers" in your post to gain support from the forum.

Explain in total number of units how you got screwed if I'm reading this wrong.

 

[flip]

If I'm reading this right, your future allocation was given to you to fill those extra WT orders you had, "pulled forward", so I would think those units came from someone else's allocation and now they are getting theirs after your back orders were filled. Am I understanding this wrong?

It's reading as if you're mad about getting extra units early "pulled forward" and now getting nothing until you get caught up and using the "big bad ADM dealers" in your post to gain support from the forum.

Explain in total number of units how you got screwed if I'm reading this wrong.

We took reservations in 2020 like everyone else, Ford did not give allocations. Ford accepted those orders then SHTF with 'rona, by their on hand by not shutting the reservation system off and by accepting more orders than they could've possibly built. We priced them the exact same way we were pricing other new vehicles (invoice) and made no commitments about what Ford was going to be able to build or not build.

The idea that stealing from future allocation to build what was leftover makes no sense. If they had production capacity to build them then they had capacity. I think the only thing it meant was existing orders probably bumped high trim "stock" units they were building for other dealers. They were preaching the entire time, "get units off your lot or else your future allocation will suffer". That would be nice because that would mean we actually received "stock" which we didn't.

I'm pissed because of several things. One, the allocation system and methodology is not transparent because they strongly encourage dealers to not share that information. Two, we did all the things we were supposed to and because we got a whopping 53 reservations in 2020 we've been penalized. All of our Bronco orders have been built so I don't have carryover, clean slate. If this is a new production year, should I have not at least gotten half of what was earned in '22? I'm essentially out of the Bronco business for a year which puts me at a significant disadvantage with surrounding dealers. Not to mention, what impact of no new Bronco sales have on allocation for '25? If they use share of the nation and 36 month total sales SON, how are they going to account for that? As far as I know, we outperformed a good chunk of similar size dealers in our zone, all with no "stock". Like I said, we aren't greedy and have about 12 loyal customers we'd like to get taken care of that have been waiting for order banks to open.

My reason for posting this has nothing to do with sympathy, support or whatever. I want people reading this who think they might be ordering a vehicle to do their homework and make sure whomever they're dealing with really does have sufficient allocation and commodity to get them a '24 so they can avoid a bunch or bs others have dealt with. Call it sour grapes, sand in my mangina, whining, whatever. If folks don't want to hear my woes they can definitely block me or tell me to GTFO and I'm fine either way. The thread was about order bank, allocation and the whatnot, I put in my two cents and people can take it or leave it.

 

[Arrowbear Rider]

In my personal opinion, I think Ford's solution was a really good customer-focused solution to the issue. But obviously those dealers (and some fans of those dealers) might feel like Ford did them dirty... which... I can understand.

I have to agree, and I understand. It's really comes don to which side of the argument that you're on, but it does sound like Ford chose to take a customer base solution to fix a three year old problem. A solution that saved those customers from getting pushed to MY24 with all of the prices increases and trim and options changes.

That's one of the few customer base decisions/wins we've read about in this whole fiasco.

I'm not being a Ford apologist, I'm thinking about those customers that got their order built in MY23 instead of MY24.

 

[OmahaKevin]

Question/clarification on the "pull forward" allocations above.

As a Flooring Auditor I've never seen allocations pulled forward, so am I reading this correct? A smaller dealership with say 20 units a year as their allocation sell/take orders for 80 or more units (total) in the first three years, they are over their allocation by 20 or more units. Maybe even more than a year's allocation over. And in this case Ford "pulled forward" allocation from year four to fill the customer orders on hand for MY23.

If that's the case, then I argue Ford did right by those customers, not the dealership. The little "good o'boy I'm doing it right by not adding ADM" over promised on how many they could deliver. And now they are upset over receiving MY24 allocations early in '23 to fill those extra orders they took? Wasn't this three years after the whole allocations thing came up? Did they keep taking too many orders into MY23 even after the last three years of allocation problems? Or were these all from three years ago?

Those customers got their orders today at today's prices and with today's trims and options available, many loaded WT with heavy constraints (his words). If they had been pushed into MY24, they would have been screwed royally.

I understand wanting to grow you're dealership, but I also know that if there wasn't any allocations that the "Big Guys" the really big dealerships down to the medium size dealers could have sold every Bronco built and filled the order banks with enough orders up front, WITH the flooring money there to cover all of the orders up front. How many Broncos would the small or smallest guys get then?

You can be mad that the big bad "stealership" get's too many units allocated while the honest little guys gets a small amount, but if you make widgets and for years or decades your biggest widget sellers sale 100 times what others sell, you're going to fill their orders first. They've invested in their dealerships and earned all those customers too, and have sold high numbers consistently. Who's getting more widgets to sell?

When production is way lower than demand, I argue that without allocations the little guys would have gotten no Broncos because the biggest down to medium size dealerships would have bought every Bronco before the small guys could have got their order even looked at.

I have to agree, and I understand. It's really comes don to which side of the argument that you're on, but it does sound like Ford chose to take a customer base solution to fix a three year old problem. A solution that saved those customers from getting pushed to MY24 with all of the prices increases and trim and options changes.

That's one of the few customer base decisions/wins we've read about in this whole fiasco.

I'm not being a Ford apologist, I'm thinking about those customers that got their order built in MY23 instead of MY24.

If Ford has not changed the rules mid game I would have had my Oct '20 reservation built in 2022 instead of mid-2023. I'm glad I got it because I wasn't hanging around any longer.
Ford saw the reservations coming in and which dealers were having success. But Ford caved to the large dealers and forgot the "reservations will be built before stock."
I'm a lifelong Ford guy but this may be my last. Granger has my business. But the sell other brands....

 

[Arrowbear Rider]

If Ford has not changed the rules mid game I would have had my Oct '20 reservation built in 2022 instead of mid-2023. I'm glad I got it because I wasn't hanging around any longer.
Ford saw the reservations coming in and which dealers were having success. But Ford caved to the large dealers and forgot the "reservations will be built before stock."
I'm a lifelong Ford guy but this may be my last. Granger has my business. But the sell other brands....

You are right Ford messed up in the beginning thinking they could copy Tesla's reservation system and didn't take into account that the big dealerships had allocation contracts/agreements in place that would prevent Ford from filling reservations in order. We already know that Ford messed up to be polite, but they built your early reservation and all of the early orders by "pulling forward" those allocations and building your dealer's order, your order, by temporarily taking another dealers allocation away.

That's business and capitalism, those dealers want their allocations too. You deserved to get your build built earlier. But the same mess up that caused you to wait was played out on this end with yours getting built, not in original order, but in order before another dealers allocation. Your order was first, but number 100 of 60 allowed. While the order after yours was after, but was order number 90 out of 100 allowed this year, so they're in a different line/cue, but the same mess/line too.

You have an earlier time stamp, they are in a line that has allocated units, so Ford (finally) gave you priority by giving you one of your dealers future allocations. You're right Ford messed up in the beginning. Shouldn't had tried to copy Tesla without checking with the lawyers maybe, we all hate that, but maybe? Should have shut down reservations way earlier, but many here wouldn't have one then.

But, I'm glad to read you got your early reservation built, it should have happened a year ago, I waited 2 years myself at a medium size dealer who did this right, no ADM on reservations or orders. That doesn't change that there was simply not enough allocation to go around and the dealer above got their orders caught up by Ford advancing them their allowance. You know like your parents did when something came up.

It's OK to make a few big dealers wait a few months to get some of their inventory, and build 20 or 30 more to catch a small dealer up and get you your order, as they should, but Ford has to send those guys extra in the coming months to end their year right too.

I'm glad you and all reservations, not orders after, but reservations seem to be built or scheduled for this MY and we'll at least be past this mess.

 

[OmahaKevin]

You are right Ford messed up in the beginning thinking they could copy Tesla's reservation system and didn't take into account that the big dealerships had allocation contracts/agreements in place that would prevent Ford from filling reservations in order. We already know that Ford messed up to be polite, but they built your early reservation and all of the early orders by "pulling forward" those allocations and building your dealer's order, your order, by temporarily taking another dealers allocation away.

That's business and capitalism, those dealers want their allocations too. You deserved to get your build built earlier. But the same mess up that caused you to wait was played out on this end with yours getting built, not in original order, but in order before another dealers allocation. Your order was first, but number 100 of 60 allowed. While the order after yours was after, but was order number 90 out of 100 allowed this year, so they're in a different line/cue, but the same mess/line too.

You have an earlier time stamp, they are in a line that has allocated units, so Ford (finally) gave you priority by giving you one of your dealers future allocations. You're right Ford messed up in the beginning. Shouldn't had tried to copy Tesla without checking with the lawyers maybe, we all hate that, but maybe? Should have shut down reservations way earlier, but many here wouldn't have one then.

But, I'm glad to read you got your early reservation built, it should have happened a year ago, I waited 2 years myself at a medium size dealer who did this right, no ADM on reservations or orders. That doesn't change that there was simply not enough allocation to go around and the dealer above got their orders caught up by Ford advancing them their allowance. You know like your parents did when something came up.

It's OK to make a few big dealers wait a few months to get some of their inventory, and build 20 or 30 more to catch a small dealer up and get you your order, as they should, but Ford has to send those guys extra in the coming months to end their year right too.

I'm glad you and all reservations, not orders after, but reservations seem to be built or scheduled for this MY and we'll at least be past this mess.

Allocation was never mentioned as part of the original system. The FAQ was quietly edited after the fact to add that wording. As soon as they did that all dealers who did well on the originally outlined rules were in trouble.
From a customer viewpoint I am glad they pulled me forward. But the system used to do that punished the dealers who did the best in the early days of reservations.

 

[BigHoof]

So all of these dealers that stole their customer orders and sold to the highest bidders, why have they not been punished? Probably were rewarded with more allocation even though they are quietly destroying the Ford brand. Bronco brought a lot of new faces to Ford but due to some of these shady dealers, they will not be back.

 

[mpeugeot]

@flip has every reason to be salty, and so do other dealers that went out of their way to be good dealerships. Ford can strip these good dealers of allocation, but that only guarantees that I won't buy a Ford from another dealership. I would rather wait for the dealer that I know that I can trust... If that means that I don't buy another Ford, I am ok with that.

 

[mpeugeot]

I can tell I'm reading this way wrong because the percentages don't add up to 100.

Are *all* 2- door Broncos capped at 15%? Or is there something I'm missing? Something to do with the hard top vs. soft top?

Yes, it's likely that 2 door production will be limited to 15%. For some BS reason Ford is incapable of selling a 2 door soft top.

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