High temps after JB4 and K&N

[WildtrakToronto]

I installed the JB4 tuning box, k&N CAI and turbosmart BOV about a month ago. Everything seemed to be going well. I even had JB4 send me upgraded firmware to be able to run Map 3 on 94 octane.

When my wildtrak starts up on cold start and I let it run to operating temps. Then I go for a drive on map 1 , 2, or 3. It's absolutely amazing the truck is very fast. 1st, 2nd and 3rd have an insane amount of difference over stock. The CAI makes cool Turbo noise and the bov sounds great. The torque just pulls through hard especially in 2nd and 3rd.

Here is where it goes downhill...

Once the vehicle warms up meaning my oil temps reach 215-220 and my intake air temps (IAT) reach 135 (JB4 gauge) I lose about 50 percent power less than stock.. it's as if the factory computer is going into safety mode and pulling back power. If I park for an hour and it let it cool down it goes right back to full power.
I definitely need to run some logs and send it to JB4.

As of right now the only thing I can think of that is causing this is the IAT. Maybe with the added power I don't. Have enough Air flow from the intercooler. It's possible that with any tuning box you add you should consider an upgraded intercooler. The other option could be the K&n CAI. Unlike the factory air box or roush air box or even mishimoto air box. The k&n has meshed open Air box lid. I worry that the hot engine air is being sucked into the filter and causing IAT to rise which Is then putting the truck into safety.

I'm still investigating this but wanted to let you know.

Any suggestions???

Current firmware.

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[Slyder]

The only things that come to mind for me, since I used to owned a tuned 2011 Sti, are thermostat and spark-plugs.

The usual recommendation is to go one step colder with spark-plugs and putting in an 180 degree thermostat.

These are just my suggestions but since I don't have a Bronco yet, maybe someone else who owns a tuned Bronco will chime in with what they've found or done.

 

[WildtrakToronto]

The only things that come to mind for me, since I used to owned a tuned 2011 Sti, are thermostat and spark-plugs.

The usual recommendation is to go one step colder with spark-plugs and putting in an 180 degree thermostat.

These are just my suggestions but since I don't have a Bronco yet, maybe someone else who owns a tuned Bronco will chime in with what they've found or done.

That's actually a good idea. The panda tuning box comes with new spark plugs that are step colder than stock. There might be something there. Thanks.

 

[Neigh]

Sounds like you should test your theory by putting the stock airbox back on.

Feeding hot air to the turbos means they're going to produce really really hot output and there's only so much the intercooler can do to drop that back down.

 

[Billnchristy]

135 is not a bad IAT. I have seen well over 140 in my BMW (I have not logged the new one, but my old one would easily hit 145 sitting in traffic and usually cool down to about 125 or so driving).

Oil temp doesn't seem too far off either. I'd definitely pull a log and see what timing and your AFR looks like.

 

[WildtrakToronto]

135 is not a bad IAT. I have seen well over 140 in my BMW (I have not logged the new one, but my old one would easily hit 145 sitting in traffic and usually cool down to about 125 or so driving).

Oil temp doesn't seem too far off either. I'd definitely pull a log and see what timing and your AFR looks like.

Ya I agree all valid points. I just noticed it seems to start at those temps. When it does reach those temps and I run threw the gears. The JB4 gauge IATs reach 170. As I accelerate the IAT climbs from 135 to 170. And my oil temps also go up to 235-240. If I back off and cruise on the highway with the AC on then it slowly drops back down.

 

[TellurideBronco]

You have identified the dirty secret of these so called “Cold Air Intake” systems. The Bronco comes standard with a factory CAI that ingests ambient temperature outside air while these open box designs suck hot engine air.

“The other option could be the K&n CAI. Unlike the factory air box or roush air box or even mishimoto air box. The k&n has meshed open Air box lid. I worry that the hot engine air is being sucked into the filter and causing IAT to rise which Is then putting the truck into safety”.

 

[Billnchristy]

Ya I agree all valid points. I just noticed it seems to start at those temps. When it does reach those temps and I run threw the gears. The JB4 gauge IATs reach 170. As I accelerate the IAT climbs from 135 to 170. And my oil temps also go up to 235-240. If I back off and cruise on the highway with the AC on then it slowly drops back down.

That does seem unusual. Usually, once you are moving the IATs would drop. I only see them rise at idle waiting at a light for example. I want to say I have seen 170 as well, but l cannot remember. I'll see if I have any of the logs still saved on the PC.

 

[bradcd]

I have experienced this kind of thing with my tuned Saab 9-3. Installed a BSR "cold air" intake cone filter and once the engine had warmed up to optimal it was all about combating heat soak from the engine compartment. Ultimately I went back to the closed stock airbox setup and rerouted the air intake to more of a ram style. Another thing mentioned by Slyder above is that you may need high quality, or at least differently gapped, spark plugs. Stock gap for my OEM Saab plugs calls for 1.0mm, but my tune was designed to operate on a 0.9mm gap. My tuning company at the time sold pre-gapped plugs that I installed but they only lasted for about 20,000mi since they were Iridium IX. Now I'm running properly gapped Laser Iridiums for my tune and she runs great. Once you get into tuning it's a neverending game of find and replace.

 

[Billnchristy]

Here's a chart I did from a log. As you can see when speed and boost are up the IATs are down and when idling they rise. I would definitely say there's a problem. I'd start with pulling a log as is and then swap the intake back and see what the difference is. This is a BMW X2m35i

 

[Bigmoose]

Can you log IAT2? This is usually downstream air temp post compression and intercooler. The ecu will usually use this to pull timing/boost. I'm sure the ecu is probably pulling timing and boost due to increased temps.

Ironically the intake air temps don't have as much effect on IAT2 as you would think.

 

[2020FordRaptor]

I installed the JB4 tuning box, k&N CAI and turbosmart BOV about a month ago. Everything seemed to be going well. I even had JB4 send me upgraded firmware to be able to run Map 3 on 94 octane.

When my wildtrak starts up on cold start and I let it run to operating temps. Then I go for a drive on map 1 , 2, or 3. It's absolutely amazing the truck is very fast. 1st, 2nd and 3rd have an insane amount of difference over stock. The CAI makes cool Turbo noise and the bov sounds great. The torque just pulls through hard especially in 2nd and 3rd.

Here is where it goes downhill...

Once the vehicle warms up meaning my oil temps reach 215-220 and my intake air temps (IAT) reach 135 (JB4 gauge) I lose about 50 percent power less than stock.. it's as if the factory computer is going into safety mode and pulling back power. If I park for an hour and it let it cool down it goes right back to full power.
I definitely need to run some logs and send it to JB4.

As of right now the only thing I can think of that is causing this is the IAT. Maybe with the added power I don't. Have enough Air flow from the intercooler. It's possible that with any tuning box you add you should consider an upgraded intercooler. The other option could be the K&n CAI. Unlike the factory air box or roush air box or even mishimoto air box. The k&n has meshed open Air box lid. I worry that the hot engine air is being sucked into the filter and causing IAT to rise which Is then putting the truck into safety.

I'm still investigating this but wanted to let you know.

Any suggestions???

Current firmware.

I'd contact where you got those items from. Definitely not normal.

 

[Mishimoto]

Hey @WildtrakToronto!

I just came across your thread and wanted (with the help of our tuning experienced engineer) to chime in since there's a few things that could be going on here.

So, it sounds like you're running into an OEM limiter of some sort, but it's tough to pinpoint the exact cause of your sudden power cut since the Bronco ECU has yet to be cracked and we don't know if it's an oil or IAT limiter, or both. Judging from the sudden loss of power, that could point more toward the climbing oil temperatures, and IATs would be a more gradual adjustment in boost targets. There could also be some engine knock happening once you get up to temperature that's also triggering a limiter. Perhaps some additional octane booster could help or a step colder on the spark plugs (I had to do the same with my stage 3 map Focus ST)

Just out of curiosity, what are your coolant temps running at about when you lose power?

As for the IATs, the important measurement is at the manifold, so intakes shouldn't have a massive effect on this value. Rather, an intercooler will have a much more significant effect on IAT performance, and upgrading your intercooler is a must with aggressive tuning. OEM intercoolers are very easy to heat soak and aren't really equipped to handle the jump in charged air temps that come from performance tunes. We currently have a performance option that fits in the stock location, and also have a high-mounted design in the works as well, so feel free to reach out with any questions about either of those!

-Nick

 

[WildtrakToronto]

Hey @WildtrakToronto!

I just came across your thread and wanted (with the help of our tuning experienced engineer) to chime in since there's a few things that could be going on here.

So, it sounds like you're running into an OEM limiter of some sort, but it's tough to pinpoint the exact cause of your sudden power cut since the Bronco ECU has yet to be cracked and we don't know if it's an oil or IAT limiter, or both. Judging from the sudden loss of power, that could point more toward the climbing oil temperatures, and IATs would be a more gradual adjustment in boost targets. There could also be some engine knock happening once you get up to temperature that's also triggering a limiter. Perhaps some additional octane booster could help or a step colder on the spark plugs (I had to do the same with my stage 3 map Focus ST)

Just out of curiosity, what are your coolant temps running at about when you lose power?

As for the IATs, the important measurement is at the manifold, so intakes shouldn't have a massive effect on this value. Rather, an intercooler will have a much more significant effect on IAT performance, and upgrading your intercooler is a must with aggressive tuning. OEM intercoolers are very easy to heat soak and aren't really equipped to handle the jump in charged air temps that come from performance tunes. We currently have a performance option that fits in the stock location, and also have a high-mounted design in the works as well, so feel free to reach out with any questions about either of those!

-Nick

Thanks for the response Nick.

I have since been doing further testing and here is where I am with it.

The weather up in Toronto has cooked down quite a bit since the first post. So I have been testing different driving scenarios. Highway, city, traffic etc...
I have tested with map 0 (stock) and noticed my
Oil temps reach peaks of 212 to 230
Tranny temps reach peaks of 203
IATs fluctuate between 80-135
This is in mixed driving environments

In maps 1,2,3 is where things begin to change
Oil temps reach peaks of 235-239
Tranny temps reach peaks of 211
IATs spike to 170 on full throttle

I have also noticed that since the weather has gone cooler the IAT value have improved alot. I can drive harder for longer before it pulls power again.

I have also just purchased a 12x12 piece of abs plastic and I am going to attempt to fabricate an exact fitment piece for the k&n cold air intake lid cover in hopes to drop the IAT temps I will send updates and pics when complete.

I have also done some logging on the JB4 in maps 0 , 1, 2, 3 and will be sind if those to JB4. I have exclusively only out in 94 octane fuel since I bought the truck.

I have definitely been debating on purchasing your direct replacement intercooler. And this something I'm probably going to do. I will also check the coolant temps and get back to you.

 

[mpeugeot]

Has anyone considered the knock sensor data. Bad fuel could be the culprit, causing knock once the engine is running closed loop (after it warms up). I would look at knock data and the spark timing, because I bet you might see something there.

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