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Navigation Requiring Subscription?

atonge40

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I just had an idea. What if the navigation is subscription-based, because it comes with the 4GLTE Hotspot. Because the navigation would run on the cell service not satellite service. Then I could fully understand why you would need that for the GPS. No cell service no GPS.

also that could be why Apple CarPlay and android auto appear to be optional. It’s standard if you use a USB cord. But optional for wireless CarPlay and android auto which is available on the new F150 with LTE hotspot.
I know for a fact that CarPlay/Android Auto isn't optional. That was a mess up by someone at Ford. Either the person that loads options into the website or whoever gives that person the info. Someone did clarify that CP/AA are standard. You are right about the wireless stuff. Still, they worded it really clumsily.



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Bronc-O

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Noticed the NAV comes with a “complimentary” 3 month subscription. Anyone else think it’s silly an off-roading focused vehicle is utilizing a subscription service for its NAV?

Will they be charging a subscription for CarPlay like BMW too?

I get many of us use Waze or other maps, but this is disappointing.
I'm guessing this may be for Sirius. I know that Ford changed their 6 month complimentary plan to 3 months.
 

FirstOnRaceDay

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Watching a couple of bronco videos my theory sounds correct. The subscription service includes

-4G LTE Mobil Hotspot
- Over the Air Updates
- WIRELESS ACP/AA
- Ford Navigation WITH
— TRAIL MAPPING (you can even make your own trails and share the maps via the app and have your friends take the same path)

ACP/AA via USB is standard!
talked to a ford dealer ^^^^ that’s what’s going on
 

da_jokker

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I used to think like most... just use my phone.. but there are extras that come along with Nav (depending on the Factory I'm sure) My current Mazda has a 1 time $400 purchase for Navigation. You then only pay $60 for a years worth of Map updates (after the first included year).

But with that Nav, I get speed signs, I get upcoming streets (when not actually using Nav), time-to-destination, etc.. all without draining or tying up my phone. I also get HUD display of which lane to be in, when to turn, etc.

I have used the Navigation all over California as well as places like Reno area for 3 years and never paid that $60 update. Sure, at some point I would want to do the update to get the latest Speed limit signs and roads, etc. but I am strongly against having to pay some sort of on-going cost IF a person is willing to go without updates.

So as long as I can not-pay and still have my Nav (un-updated) then I'll be ok.. but if they turn off the Nav feature I'll be $%^#&
 

Laminar

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I just had an idea. What if the navigation is subscription-based, because it comes with the 4GLTE Hotspot. Because the navigation would run on the cell service not satellite service.
Wait...how do you think GPS works?

GPS satellites just blast out one-way data. The GPS receiver in a vehicle locks on to at least 4 of those satellites' signals and with that data, calculates its position, altitude, speed, etc.

The Bronco will absolutely use satellites for GPS. There are methods of triangulating location via cell service, but those require...cell service. Ford made it clear from the very beginning (Built Wild video) that the Bronco was all about going where there's no cell service.

GPS satellites are one-way devices. The vehicle does not transmit anything to the satellite.

In the past, SYNC 2/3 used Sirius Travel Link to get weather and traffic info updates, which is what I think you were getting at when you said "satellite service."

SYNC 4 with the LTE modem will likely use that LTE connection to get live data and periodic map updates. But the actual location triangulation will still be via satellite. And use of navigation will NOT be dependent on an active LTE connection.
 

FirstOnRaceDay

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Wait...how do you think GPS works?

GPS satellites just blast out one-way data. The GPS receiver in a vehicle locks on to at least 4 of those satellites' signals and with that data, calculates its position, altitude, speed, etc.

The Bronco will absolutely use satellites for GPS. There are methods of triangulating location via cell service, but those require...cell service. Ford made it clear from the very beginning (Built Wild video) that the Bronco was all about going where there's no cell service.

GPS satellites are one-way devices. The vehicle does not transmit anything to the satellite.

In the past, SYNC 2/3 used Sirius Travel Link to get weather and traffic info updates, which is what I think you were getting at when you said "satellite service."

SYNC 4 with the LTE modem will likely use that LTE connection to get live data and periodic map updates. But the actual location triangulation will still be via satellite. And use of navigation will NOT be dependent on an active LTE connection.
smartphones don’t use GPS they use LTE and it’s accurate within 6feet. however you are correct they could use the XM radio satellite system for gps.

and the navigation in the bronco is 2 way feed. Because you can share map data with other people.
 

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smartphones don’t use GPS they use LTE and it’s accurate within 6feet.
I don't know where you're getting all of this bad info from.

Smartphones absolutely have a standalone GPS receiver. They also utilize AGPS, where the data from cell towers and nearby wifi hotspots supplement the GPS reception to allow faster lockon.

however you are correct they could use the XM radio satellite system for gps.
I didn't say that, and no they couldn't. I said that previous versions of SYNC used the SiriusXM's capabilities to download live traffic and weather data and integrate that info with the onboard maps.

and the navigation in the bronco is 2 way feed. Because you can share map data with other people.
Yes, it can be, but it doesn't have to be.
 

TwoTone

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talked to a ford dealer ^^^^ that’s what’s going on
That is insanely disappointing. WTF is wireless AA and CP linked to a subscription? These kinds of stupid things are why I said my Flex would be my last Ford. The more info comes out, less I want to spend. Ford is doing a good job of pushing me from a higher model into a base.

You can get a $400 headunit that has wireless AA and CP.
 

FirstOnRaceDay

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I don't know where you're getting all of this bad info from.

Smartphones absolutely have a standalone GPS receiver. They also utilize AGPS, where the data from cell towers and nearby wifi hotspots supplement the GPS reception to allow faster lockon.



I didn't say that, and no they couldn't. I said that previous versions of SYNC used the SiriusXM's capabilities to download live traffic and weather data and integrate that info with the onboard maps.



Yes, it can be, but it doesn't have to be.
you are correct on GPS. I was mistake .
new phone use towers just for general location.
then satellites for within 6’ location.

however i Fully believe it’s going to to be a all in 1 subscription for navigation and LTE. especially if the navigation has to be connected to the “ford off road app”
 

FirstOnRaceDay

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That is insanely disappointing. WTF is wireless AA and CP linked to a subscription? These kinds of stupid things are why I said my Flex would be my last Ford. The more info comes out, less I want to spend. Ford is doing a good job of pushing me from a higher model into a base.

You can get a $400 headunit that has wireless AA and CP.
WIRELESS ACP and AA uses the HotSpot LTE.
You can not mirror your smart phone to any other devise with out wifi or LTE.
all other systems use a WIRED acp aa. System via USB.
You can still BLUE tooth Your smartphone.
 

TwoTone

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WIRELESS ACP and AA uses the HotSpot LTE.
You can not mirror your smart phone to any other devise with out wifi or LTE.
all other systems use a WIRED acp aa. System via USB.
You can still BLUE tooth Your smartphone.
I had a Kenwood wireless AA unit in my old Legacy, so I know it can be done without any subscription if Ford wanted to.
 

Laminar

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WIRELESS ACP and AA uses the HotSpot LTE.
You can not mirror your smart phone to any other devise with out wifi or LTE.
all other systems use a WIRED acp aa. System via USB.
You can still BLUE tooth Your smartphone.
I feel like I need to keep clarifying here for fear of people repeating bad info.

Wireless AA/CP requires a wifi network. SYNC has been able to create its own wifi network since SYNC 2, and it has been able to accomplish this without any LTE connection or modem. You could connect a device to your car's wifi network, or you could connect your car to your home wifi network.

LTE lets your car talk to cell towers. In newer (2016-up) installations, you can use it like a wifi hotspot so that your wifi-only devices can get cellular data by connecting to the network created by your car.

Android Auto and Carplay do not require an LTE connection to work wirelessly.

What is likely is that now Ford is bundling the capability to create a wifi network with the LTE modem. At home I have a cable modem that connects me to the internet, and then I have a wifi router that I connect all of my devices to. The router is connected to the modem. You can also buy cable modems with built-in wifi routers. I'd bet that where before Ford had separate wifi "routers" and LTE "modems," now it's just a single device.

So if you want to be able to connect your phone to your car's wifi, you need the LTE modem as that's how it will be accomplished going forward.

The lingering question out there is whether or not Ford will require an active LTE subscription to enable wireless CP/AA functionality. In reality, no LTE connection between the vehicle and cell towers is needed. Everything happens on the local wifi network between the device and the vehicle. The question is whether or not Ford will block CP/AA function based on subscription status.
 

FirstOnRaceDay

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I feel like I need to keep clarifying here for fear of people repeating bad info.

Wireless AA/CP requires a wifi network. SYNC has been able to create its own wifi network since SYNC 2, and it has been able to accomplish this without any LTE connection or modem. You could connect a device to your car's wifi network, or you could connect your car to your home wifi network.

LTE lets your car talk to cell towers. In newer (2016-up) installations, you can use it like a wifi hotspot so that your wifi-only devices can get cellular data by connecting to the network created by your car.

Android Auto and Carplay do not require an LTE connection to work wirelessly.

What is likely is that now Ford is bundling the capability to create a wifi network with the LTE modem. At home I have a cable modem that connects me to the internet, and then I have a wifi router that I connect all of my devices to. The router is connected to the modem. You can also buy cable modems with built-in wifi routers. I'd bet that where before Ford had separate wifi "routers" and LTE "modems," now it's just a single device.

So if you want to be able to connect your phone to your car's wifi, you need the LTE modem as that's how it will be accomplished going forward.

The lingering question out there is whether or not Ford will require an active LTE subscription to enable wireless CP/AA functionality. In reality, no LTE connection between the vehicle and cell towers is needed. Everything happens on the local wifi network between the device and the vehicle. The question is whether or not Ford will block CP/AA function based on subscription status.
according to the spec sheets of the new f150 and bronco. they both Say wireless optional.
meaning subscription based is the way I read it.
 

aplm7

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The navigation itself will for sure use GPS. My 2015 explorer does. Anything less, such as LTE would be a big downgrade. That thing is incredibly useful and has saved me a few times when I had no cell service, it got me out. Sure maybe there is a 4G LTE hotspot as well that comes with the subscription so you can connect laptops to it, but the NAV will be GPS 100%...
 

Corsair

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smartphones don’t use GPS they use LTE and it’s accurate within 6feet. however you are correct they could use the XM radio satellite system for gps.

and the navigation in the bronco is 2 way feed. Because you can share map data with other people.
I regularly use satellite gps for my cellphone when out of cell range, that’s the whole point of downloading maps.
 

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