Something's wrong with the suspension

[Burronco]

[EDIT - for new details & context see latest posts/replies]

Hey all,

Long story short (and lessons yet to be learned) - Upgraded my Base 2dr suspension with Eibach 2.0 and 35 Methods+Mickey Thompsons, and now my *Upper control arm bushings are toast after about 3000 hwy miles.*

What is wrong to my (mis)understanding:
- Upper Control arm bolts on both sides have about 1/4 gap between bolt/nut and rubber bushing. This allows the arms to play back and forth causing shift in a dramatic, loud, and very disturbing the frame manner. Doing a right turn at a traffic light hints to pedestrians about the quality of your vehicle, while getting in and out of a parking spot wakes up the dead and makes you want to join them.
- Although Eibach 2.0 coilovers are (according to their crafty manufacturer) supposed to work with the stock suspension and upper control arms, I am starting to doubt that somewhat.

I did 2 things wrong:
- Coilvers changed the geometry of the suspension. 10 bonus points and a Rice Krispy.
- Rims with 0 offset and a much wider tire also changes the geometry especially when maneeueueuvering (bonus points for spelling) lock to lock at low speeds. You can see the upper control arm bending in pain, forcing itself out of alignment while the wheels are being turned lock to lock. 20 bonus points and a pint of beer

The Solutions (kinda)

- Tighten the upper control arm bolts back to spec. Yeah, well.. they aint moving. These puppers are stuck stuck. I should be tightening them while vehicle is on the ground resting on the wheel and tire, right? I will try to tighten them with the load of the vehicle off - wrong but it might work.

- Buy new upper control arms, and/or get poly bushings. Most likely what I'll do, but my fear is that I am opening a itty bitty pandora's box. The wrong geometry forces will remain, so if I stiffen the upper control arm, where would the magical twisty energy go? Sway bar links?!

I need your help, Bronco fam. Let me know if any of you have experienced this or simiar issue. Tell me what I did wrong, and how I can correct it.

Here is a video (REUPLOAD) Its muted due to youtube copyrights

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[Tricky Dick]

Well that's strange. From here it sure does look like it's not tight enough.

 

[BOLD Renegade93]

I don’t know much about your problem but if I agree with everything you said can I still get the 20 points and a pint?

 

[Bmadda]

Not sure what you mean by "wrong geometry" coilovers didn't change the geometry at all, just the ride hieght. Video doesn't really show anything abnormal...those bushings need to flex. I think you are missing the real problem entirely. If you had a bad control arm bushing you would hear/feel a thump when you tap the brake at low speed. If the noise is that apparent when turning, have somebody nibble the wheel back and forth while you crawl under there and find whats loose. Bronco stock UCA is better than every aftermarket one out there. Guys are running 40s w/stock UCA.

 

[flip]

I'd have to look under under one again but if you're hearing a popping noise when at full lock it might be coming from the end stops. The two things in the pic below will rub on each other and make hella bad noise. Look for rubbing and apply a big glob of chassis grease to the "V" area on the spindle.

If you still have noise, see if it happens when jouncing. Could still be a bushing, ball joint or tie rod end. Process of elimination from that point.

 

[bellboyfab]

Dumb question but gotta ask it. Did you remove the crash bars and if you did are the tires rubbing on the stubs from the crash bars

 

[Tricky Dick]

Video doesn't really show anything abnormal

I'm I going crazy? I see the UCA sliding back and forth on the bushings, changing castor as the suspension cycles.

Bronco stock UCA is better than every aftermarket one out there. Guys are running 40s w/stock UCA.

*cough* Icon *cough*

Only UCA with a joint with greater range of motion than OEM I think, unless something else has come out recently.

 

[Bmadda]

I'm I going crazy? I see the UCA sliding back and forth on the bushings, changing castor as the suspension cycles.

*cough* Icon *cough*

Only UCA with a joint with greater range of motion than OEM I think, unless something else has come out recently.

Both yours and mine do the same if dry steered like that...they all do to some degree

 

[Tricky Dick]

Both yours and mine do the same if dry steered like that...they all do to some degree

I'll have to trust you since I've never looked at it in action.

 

[BlueBronco]

While it certainly is possible, UCA's typically don't just fail. And that bit of sliding back and forth wouldn't account for the noise you mentioned (although I can't exactly hear any binding noises over that goofy music in your video). You sure your tires aren't just rubbing somewhere on full lock, crash bars, wheel liners, something?

 

[Burronco]

I don’t know much about your problem but if I agree with everything you said can I still get the 20 points and a pint?

Not sure what you mean by "wrong geometry" coilovers didn't change the geometry at all, just the ride hieght. Video doesn't really show anything abnormal...those bushings need to flex. I think you are missing the real problem entirely. If you had a bad control arm bushing you would hear/feel a thump when you tap the brake at low speed. If the noise is that apparent when turning, have somebody nibble the wheel back and forth while you crawl under there and find whats loose. Bronco stock UCA is better than every aftermarket one out there. Guys are running 40s w/stock UCA.

I do have a very loud metal-to-metal thump, and a pretty violent shift in the driver side UCA. The video and its copyrighted blah music do not do justice. I'm looking for a GoPro today and will try to make a proper video.

And I do agree on the stock UCAs being a solid part. It may not even be the UCAs at all, but whatever is wrong, is causing them to take the damage and blame.

As far as geometry - I barely passed 4th grade, so anything that moves at a relative angle to something else is complex geometry to me

 

[Burronco]

To all that mentioned tire rubbing, It's not tire rubbing. The noise I have is a very loud metal-to-metal clang and happens before full lock, even when the vehicle is not moving. Visually the UCA shifts rapidly, and quite violently along the axis of bushings. I understand there should be a bit of room for the UCA to move, but pretty confident it shouldn't rapidly jump 1/4 of an inch with a metal clang that wakes up the neighborhood.

I'm trying to find a GoPro or a good phone mount today, so I can make a proper video of the noise and UCA shift (without the stupid copyrighted music).

 

[flip]

Is the vehicle under warranty? If so, why not let the dealer sort it out?

 

[Burronco]

Dumb question but gotta ask it. Did you remove the crash bars and if you did are the tires rubbing on the stubs from the crash bars

No question is dumb. Tires rubbing was my very first thought. I do have the crash bars removed (because if I crash I want to suffer maximum damage, cry, and complain about it later). The noise I have is a very loud metal-to-metal clang that doesn't always happen at full lock. It is when I go from lock to lock. During the rotation process?!.. not sure how to call it.

Will try to make a better video without copyrighted music in it. Who knew people still cared for the copyright of "Barbie Girl" by Aqua?

 

[Grumpy]

Take a frontal pic of the whole front suspension so we can see your LCA angles and everything else. I would like to see your upper and lower ball joint angles while at rest with wheels straight. Then if you have a buddy around, take new vid of both left and right UCA & LCA while dry steer full lock to lock. And we can do without the music this time, just the suspension sound.

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