The right suspension kit?

[Big Lig]

Total newb POV here. I don't know the differences between the shocks, lifts, etc, sort of.

I know the basics, lift vs level, etc. But.... it seems to me most lifts and discussion focuses on rock crawling, and articulation. Most kits focus on that, it seems. What about that go fast baja style enthusiasts? What would the King of the Hammers happy medium folks need?

Is anyone making a medium arm travel kit? In my limited understanding, to build a KotH go fast and climb effectively type of rig, this would be ideal right? It's like what Healy said, 2" of lift and 2" wider stance..... but none of the kits I have found have this type of design.

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[Dlerojo]

Get coilovers and rear shocks with external resevoirs, new control arms, and wheels with a lower offset. Lifted and a wider stance, badaboom

 

[Big Lig]

Get coilovers and rear shocks with external resevoirs, new control arms, and wheels with a lower offset. Lifted and a wider stance, badaboom

Is it that simple? Is the SAS the best way to start, or non-SAS BL?

 

[dweskamp]

Fun Haver will have the most off road worthy, FWP has spacer, arms and coil overs, Maxlider will have a spacer and upper arm for the Sasquatch keeping the bilstiens. I'm doing badsquatch, 35s are good on and plenty off road. But they will be Nitto Recons

 

[Dlerojo]

Is it that simple? Is the SAS the best way to start, or non-SAS BL?

non sasquatch. If you do that you’re replacing all the Sasquatch parts anyway.

 

[dweskamp]

non sasquatch. If you do that you’re replacing all the Sasquatch parts anyway.

Sasquatch gives you the gearing, heavy axles and lockers. Lifts on Lessor trims will be for looks not 4 or 5 rated trails

 

[Big Lig]

Sasquatch gives you the gearing, heavy axles and lockers. Lifts on Lessor trims will be for looks not 4 or 5 rated trails

That's what I was thinking... that the SAS would then need to change the shocks (to coil overs) and control arms...but what else still remains to be determined right?

 

[BAUS67]

Total newb POV here. I don't know the differences between the shocks, lifts, etc, sort of.

I know the basics, lift vs level, etc. But.... it seems to me most lifts and discussion focuses on rock crawling, and articulation. Most kits focus on that, it seems. What about that go fast baja style enthusiasts? What would the King of the Hammers happy medium folks need?

Is anyone making a medium arm travel kit? In my limited understanding, to build a KotH go fast and climb effectively type of rig, this would be ideal right? It's like what Healy said, 2" of lift and 2" wider stance..... but none of the kits I have found have this type of design.

I have seen these guys post on their IG about a mid travel or mid arm kit.

Camburg Engineering | Suspension Systems - Coilovers - Upper Arms- Fabrication Parts - Race Rear Ends - Billet Tube Clamps - Accessories - Billet Race Hubs - Long Travel Kits - Leaf Springs


You would want Squatch, BL, WT, or FE to start ....... That cast iron diff with locker would be essential for "hammers" type build. IMO

 

[dweskamp]

That's what I was thinking... that the SAS would then need to change the shocks (to coil overs) and control arms...but what else still remains to be determined right?

No it's ready to go, later if you want 37s go get the phase one Fun haver or one of the long travel set ups. You can always sell your bilstiens coils to a Lessor builds

 

[dweskamp]

That's what I was thinking... that the SAS would then need to change the shocks (to coil overs) and control arms...but what else still remains to be determined right?

No it's ready to go, later if you want 37s go get the phase one Fun haver or one of the long travel set ups. You can always sell your bilstiens coils to a Lessor builds

No it's ready to go, later if you want 37s go get the phase one Fun haver or one of the long travel set ups. You can always sell your bilstiens coils to a Lessor builds

He knows his stuff

 

[goatman]

Total newb POV here. I don't know the differences between the shocks, lifts, etc, sort of.

I know the basics, lift vs level, etc. But.... it seems to me most lifts and discussion focuses on rock crawling, and articulation. Most kits focus on that, it seems. What about that go fast baja style enthusiasts? What would the King of the Hammers happy medium folks need?

Is anyone making a medium arm travel kit? In my limited understanding, to build a KotH go fast and climb effectively type of rig, this would be ideal right? It's like what Healy said, 2" of lift and 2" wider stance..... but none of the kits I have found have this type of design.

When you say go fast what do you mean? A lift kit is to allow bigger tires, which can help in more extreme terrain like really big mud or much bigger rocks. Go fast Baja style really doesn't require bigger tires, and so really doesn't require a bigger lift. BTW, I'm a KOH racer, and I own a shop, so I have a bit of experience with your question. I have raced both 4400 Unlimited and 4600 Stock class (and have a series championship).

Also, what is your goal for your Bronco and what is your budget? The Bronco as it comes, if you get SAS or if you get Badlands, already comes with internal position sensitive shocks, which are going to work very well in the go fast stuff. You'll see desert and KOH cars with bypass shocks, and that is essentially what the Bronco comes with in the SAS pkg and Badlands. It is possible to go down in shock capability by switching to a lift kit with different shocks. BTW, the Bronco comes with coilovers, which means a coil mounted over the shock, the coil is not mounted to the frame anywhere. So, just going to coilovers doesn't mean anything, it already has coilovers, and very well tuned ones at that. As an example, I won't get a Bronco without getting the position sensitive shocks, so either Badlands or SAS. I will go fast in that thing, and I don't plan to modify it at all, no need to. I will not do big rocks with it, since I already have a rock buggy to scratch that itch. So, I don't need bigger tires, and so don't need a taller lift.

Also, more lift raises the center of gravity, making the car not handle so well in the go fast stuff and less stable on the rougher trail stuff. Just enough lift to get the job done makes a better performing car. Same with tires, bigger tires raise the center of gravity so no point in getting them unless you want them to go over bigger and more extreme terrain. And bigger tires decrease braking force if you want to go fast, so again you need a good reason to go to bigger tires, it is not automatically a benefit. Well, unless you're a mall crawler, then bigger lift and bigger tires are always cool!

Back to budget. And back to how fast you want to go, and for how long do you want to do it. Stock with the good shocks is going to be very capable to go fast. Now, how much faster do you want to go, and how much money are you willing to spend to do it. What to do, and what will be best to do, depends on your answer to those two questions.

 

[Big Lig]

When you say go fast what do you mean? A lift kit is to allow bigger tires, which can help in more extreme terrain like really big mud or much bigger rocks. Go fast Baja style really doesn't require bigger tires, and so really doesn't require a bigger lift. BTW, I'm a KOH racer, and I own a shop, so I have a bit of experience with your question. I have raced both 4400 Unlimited and 4600 Stock class (and have a series championship).

Also, what is your goal for your Bronco and what is your budget? The Bronco as it comes, if you get SAS or if you get Badlands, already comes with internal position sensitive shocks, which are going to work very well in the go fast stuff. You'll see desert and KOH cars with bypass shocks, and that is essentially what the Bronco comes with in the SAS pkg and Badlands. It is possible to go down in shock capability by switching to a lift kit with different shocks. BTW, the Bronco comes with coilovers, which means a coil mounted over the shock, the coil is not mounted to the frame anywhere. So, just going to coilovers doesn't mean anything, it already has coilovers, and very well tuned ones at that. As an example, I won't get a Bronco without getting the position sensitive shocks, so either Badlands or SAS. I will go fast in that thing, and I don't plan to modify it at all, no need to. I will not do big rocks with it, since I already have a rock buggy to scratch that itch. So, I don't need bigger tires, and so don't need a taller lift.

Also, more lift raises the center of gravity, making the car not handle so well in the go fast stuff and less stable on the rougher trail stuff. Just enough lift to get the job done makes a better performing car. Same with tires, bigger tires raise the center of gravity so no point in getting them unless you want them to go over bigger and more extreme terrain. And bigger tires decrease braking force if you want to go fast, so again you need a good reason to go to bigger tires, it is not automatically a benefit. Well, unless you're a mall crawler, then bigger lift and bigger tires are always cool!

Back to budget. And back to how fast you want to go, and for how long do you want to do it. Stock with the good shocks is going to be very capable to go fast. Now, how much faster do you want to go, and how much money are you willing to spend to do it. What to do, and what will be best to do, depends on your answer to those two questions.

That was the answer that was worth the question! Thank you! Really, I want to enjoy my ride in the environment I will be in. Growing up I went to Pismo and watched folks run up the hill.... I really enjoy the Baja 1000 and KOH races. Do I want to be a driver in those events? No, but I do want to go to some places and experience a measure of that type of driving.

Currently I live in NC, stationed in VA. I am from AZ and will be relocating to TX come time to retire....so that is the environments I will be driving in most....desert and that transitional area of central to east Texas.

 

[dweskamp]

Thank you for your service, I did 33 years and retired to play in a Ranger bass boat. I'll be doing mostly trails so my build is a badlands with sasquatch, but it's capable to do both your goals and mine. I'm in SW Missouri with many trails in the Mark Twain National Forrest but have family in Colorado with hundreds of scenic trails. Only thing I recommend is different tires at some point. Every picture I see of the wrangler are loaded with rocks in every crease and crevis. I love my trail grapplers on my gmc 2500, but the new Recon grapplers are coming this fall in 17s for the Bronco and 18s for my truck. They are a hybrid like the very popular ridge grapplers. You see many rigs running trail grapplers on the desert racing.

 

[Big Lig]

Thank you for your service, I did 33 years and retired to play in a Ranger bass boat. I'll be doing mostly trails so my build is a badlands with sasquatch, but it's capable to do both your goals and mine. I'm in SW Missouri with many trails in the Mark Twain National Forrest but have family in Colorado with hundreds of scenic trails. Only thing I recommend is different tires at some point. Every picture I see of the wrangler are loaded with rocks in every crease and crevis. I love my trail grapplers on my gmc 2500, but the new Recon grapplers are coming this fall in 17s for the Bronco and 18s for my truck. They are a hybrid like the very popular ridge grapplers. You see many rigs running trail grapplers on the desert racing.

Thank you too!

I have trail grapplers on my 2018 JLU and Toyo Open Country R/Ts on my F150. Looking at the Recons.... I am loving the looks/tread on those.

As far as what I am thinking for my build (when I finally get a Bronco)...
So the inspiration is the 4600 Stock Series Bronco and the SEMA Built Bronco.... I may not be able to afford to go full 4600 Stock build, but maybe get the overall look/feel of something in between that and the SEMA build.... that's a rig I'd love to own and drive!

 

[goatman]

Thank you too!

I have trail grapplers on my 2018 JLU and Toyo Open Country R/Ts on my F150. Looking at the Recons.... I am loving the looks/tread on those.

As far as what I am thinking for my build (when I finally get a Bronco)...
So the inspiration is the 4600 Stock Series Bronco and the SEMA Built Bronco.... I may not be able to afford to go full 4600 Stock build, but maybe get the overall look/feel of something in between that and the SEMA build.... that's a rig I'd love to own and drive!

I think a Bronco with a nice aftermarket front bumper and winch, and a good aftermarket rear bumper, on 35's or 37's would be very cool looking. As far as capability, I would easily run the Rubicon trail in a Badlands non-SAS on 33" tires. My Cherokee now has 33's and lockers F&R and will easily tackle the 'Con. It also has Deaver Jeepspeed springs and good shocks tuned for the car and trussed axles F&R and does very well in the desert or rough roads. Very fun to drive. On 33's.

Now, would I like to have a Bronco with a Stage 2 suspension and longer travel? Hell yes! But, it needs a good bit more travel than stock to justify the price and inconvenience of it being a daily driver. The thing about go fast Baja style builds is the ability to go faster over bigger whoops and irregularities. Doesn't make it faster on normal stuff, it makes it faster over much rougher roads and bigger whoops. But, to make use of longer travel the shocks need to be custom tuned for the car. On our race cars we spend $600 a day for custom shock tuning, and racing without doing that is pointless. I assume a future Stage 2 suspension will come with shocks already tuned, but short of buying a package like that most 2-3" lift kits will likely have shocks that aren't tuned as well as the stock factory Bilsteins. The stock Bronco has a bout 8.5" of travel. To get a noticeable increase you'd want to go over 10" and the shocks would need custom tuning. It's possible that a stock Badlands non-SAS Bronco could be faster than a 2" lift kit Bronco from an average vendor. The shocks will make the difference.

Our 4600 car had 11" travel in the front and 12.5" travel in the back, and two full days of shock tuning, and I would never drive the Bronco close to as fast as I drove that car. It will be my daily driver and I don't want to barrel roll it. We rolled the 4600 car a number of times, if you're going to go really fast it is just a risk. I also don't want to daily drive a lifted car, and my wife needs to get into it. So, like I said, lots of things are possible, but what do you want and how much are you willing to spend.

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