Stage 2 turbos only

[Ducati1098]

Don't get me wrong, I think that it's far better to do it the right way. The right way optimizes the entire system, right down to cam lift, duration, and overlap. Anyone planning to change cams?

Can't say that I've ever looked into cams.
I'd honestly be surprised if anyone even made an aftermarket set. I think I'm pretty much done now that I have the bigger turbos. If anything happens at this point, I'd likely try and do a 3.0 built bottom end but find a way to keep the dual fuel capability of the 2.7

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[RIDE]

That’s not how it works. A bigger turbo isn't going to increase heat. A bigger turbo is typically less restrictive on the exhaust side and typically has a larger compressor.

The larger compressor will flow more air at a given pressure ratio, thus at the same boost level will put less heat into the air flowing through the intercooler.

A larger turbine will flow more exhaust gas requiring less psi of boost to achieve the same airflow. Because there is less resistance to airflow in the system overall.

Intercooler restrictions are measured by the pressure drop across the intercooler at a given CFM. Anything more than a 1.5psi pressure drop usually is a sign of the intercooler being inadequately sized for the application. Of course, you want to maximize the temperature difference between the inlet and the outlet of a given sized unit to reflect the efficiency of the intercooler (and this is where many aftermarket intercoolers shine).

Once again, just a few things I learned when I owned a dyno and drinking margaritas with my friend Corky Bell.

I mean, I get your methodology. But when I think of greater volume being forced through the same diameter discharge, isn’t that textbook for pressure increase? That’s where I believe the heat threat originates since it wouldn’t be able to shed exhaust from the system fast enough. To me, this would then start the chain of EGT rise=>increased induction temps=>higher EGT’s and so on. And if the pressure builds high enough with high enough temps, bad things would most definitely happen, I’d think. Am I seeing that right?

EDIT: Not necessarily EGT rise per se, but exhaust system temp rise in general

 

[MWILD]

They move more air, but they don’t keep the charge air temperatures down. The more air you compress, the hotter it gets. The factory intercooler is hardly adequate at stock boost levels, anything over that and it’ll just have extreme heat soak making little difference how much more air a bigger turbo is moving.

Either way, you could be right. It’s hard to say without seeing how each one would be affected by just replacing the turbos alone since nobody has done that on this platform.

I don’t have any before/after of my own exhaust, but dyno data I’ve seen on another Bronco running higher than stock boost levels shows adding downpipes didn’t really make much of a difference at all. Which makes me think the exhaust isn’t really that restrictive to begin with, or at least not before the muffler.
Both the stage 2 and 3 use stock turbine wheels, just a larger compressor wheel.

This.

That other Bronco Ducati is talking about is mine. I went back to the Dyno after installing my DPs and CPs and had the tune adjusted for both. Even with these two modifications I picked up zero max gains. I'm still waiting for the dyno files so I can see if there were gains anywhere else then i'll update my thread accordingly. It's also worth mentioning that I logged both old and new dyno runs and the newest run's IAT2 temps were double that of the older (60's vs. 120's) Comparing peak to peak, (EDIT) I can see the higher IAT2 temps are pulling boost. About 1 PSI of boost.

I have an aftermarket CVF FMIC, but I'm noticing in this summer weather it struggles to keep the IAT2 temps below 120. In the colder months it's fine, but I do wish we had an option for an even bigger FMIC like the F150 has. That said, I'm throwing on a Snow performance WMI kit to see if I can get the IAT2 temps down in these hot months and keep the HP I have.

 

[mpeugeot]

I mean, I get your methodology. But when I think of greater volume being forced through the same diameter discharge, isn’t that textbook for pressure increase? That’s where I believe the heat threat originates since it wouldn’t be able to shed exhaust from the system fast enough. To me, this would then start the chain of EGT rise=>increased induction temps=>higher EGT’s and so on. And if the pressure builds high enough with high enough temps, bad things would most definitely happen, I’d think. Am I seeing that right?

Yes and no.

So the piping diameter usually has enough flow capacity not to be the significant cause of the pressure increase, the majority of the increase in pressure happens within the compressor itself (granted the intake tract post compressor provides the resistance, but where the work is occurring is where the heat comes from in the first place). Once pressurized, the temperature doesn't increase further in the tubes as far as I know, but I am not an engineer - just a lay person. I am sure that someone who is well versed in thermodynamics might have a more accurate explanation of the situation.

Increased induction temperatures CAN result in increased EGT's, but they aren't linearly related to the EGT's. EGT's are influenced by ignition timing (and other factors - such as fuel and A/F ratios) far more than intake temperatures. Now intake temperatures can most certainly influence the ability to advance ignition timing and reduce detonation resistance significantly, which will certainly lead to EGT's rising if not otherwise mitigated by evaporative cooling by the fuel or detonation resistance related to the fuel octane.

High EGT's can result in significant damage to the engine unless using exotic materials (and then it's just a matter of higher EGT's damaging the engine). So typical engines on the dyno could be in trouble at EGT's greater than 1650f, but some of the exotic race engines I tuned for endurance racing (with inconel everywhere) would tolerate EGT's of 1750f for hours (which was absolutely sick).

So generally you are seeing it correctly. High EGT's are bad, excessively low EGT's aren't good either, and increased boost aan subsequently intake temperatures can contribute to increased EGT's.

 

[RIDE]

Can't say that I've ever looked into cams.
I'd honestly be surprised if anyone even made an aftermarket set. I think I'm pretty much done now that I have the bigger turbos. If anything happens at this point, I'd likely try and do a 3.0 built bottom end but find a way to keep the dual fuel capability of the 2.7

It’s funny you guys bring up cams. Man,
I remember back when cams were one of the first best options to add power in normal aspirated V8 engines. They were fast and easy to swap, easy to access, all you needed was the cam, tools and a valve cover gasket. Popping my hood, I can’t even imagine the shop hours it’d take to even access the cam on my 3.0. NGL, would be intimidated to even try knowing how much other stuff I might mess up in the process.

 

[mpeugeot]

This.

That other Bronco Ducati is talking about is mine. I went back to the Dyno after installing my DPs and CPs and had the tune adjusted for both. Even with these two modifications I picked up zero max gains. I'm still waiting for the dyno files so I can see if there were gains anywhere else then i'll update my thread accordingly. It's also worth mentioning that I logged both old and new dyno runs and the newest run's IAT2 temps were double that of the older (60's vs. 120's) Comparing peak to peak, I can see the higher IAT2 temps are pulling timing and boost. About 1 PSI of boost and 1.5 degrees of timing.

I have an aftermarket CVF FMIC, but I'm noticing in this summer weather it struggles to keep the IAT2 temps below 120. In the colder months it's fine, but I do wish we had an option for an even bigger FMIC like the F150 had. That said, I'm throwing on a Snow performance WMI kit to see if I can get the IAT2 temps down in these hot months and keep the HP I have.

Water Methanol injection is like magic, the evaporative cooling and detonation resistance benefits cannot be overstated. You will certainly pick up power over your winter performance in the summer. I think that you will be shocked.

 

[Ducati1098]

It’s funny you guys bring up cams. Man,
I remember back when cams were one of the first best options to add power in normal aspirated V8 engines. They were fast and easy to swap, easy to access, all you needed was the cam, tools and a valve cover gasket. Popping my hood, I can’t even imagine the shop hours it’d take to even access the cam on my 3.0. NGL, would be intimidated to even try knowing how much other stuff I might mess up in the process.

Yeah it's quite a process on any newer ford V style engine.
Certainly much more involved than any old school V8 like you mentioned lol

 

[1st 75th ranger]

Can't say that I've ever looked into cams.
I'd honestly be surprised if anyone even made an aftermarket set. I think I'm pretty much done now that I have the bigger turbos. If anything happens at this point, I'd likely try and do a 3.0 built bottom end but find a way to keep the dual fuel capability of the 2.7

anyone try the CR performance bigger turbos yet ..sounds good

 

[Ducati1098]

anyone try the CR performance bigger turbos yet ..sounds good

I've been running the CR performance stage 3 turbos for a while now. Still trying to work though some tuning issues, but it makes a lot of power and is a whole lot of fun!

 

[1st 75th ranger]

I've been running the CR performance stage 3 turbos for a while now. Still trying to work though some tuning issues, but it makes a lot of power and is a whole lot of fun!

thank you for the response
i want to add bigger turbos but i cannot get info on peripheral parts needed
what issues have you run into ?

 

[Ducati1098]

thank you for the response
i want to add bigger turbos but i cannot get info on peripheral parts needed
what issues have you run into ?

Depends on what your goals are, but you'll need some typical bolt ons, a full custom tune and probably upgraded port injectors.
I would start by contacting @ZFGracing

 

[1st 75th ranger]

again thank you and safe wheeling

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