2021+ Ford Bronco 2.3L Catch Can Kit

[Funkdoobiest]

How does it mount? Existing hardware? Any drilling involved?

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[Mishimoto]

Thanks this looks great, loving how compact it is! A couple of initial questions:

- How much of the total 3 fl oz capacity do you recommend consuming before emptying? Based on your prototype testing where you collected 15 ml over 1000 miles, seems like this would need emptying roughly every 5000 miles (depending on use/environment/etc)?

- Difficult to see exactly where it's mounted in the photos, assuming it's bolted to existing fastener locations along the firewall? Any photos pre-install showing the fasteners used?

Great questions!

- So this really depends on how much blow-by your vehicle produces. Obviously you'll want to make sure to empty your can before it rises above the 3 oz mark since it can pull the collected contents back through the system. We recommend running a 1000 mile test on your vehicle after installation to properly gauge your personal service interval. We also have taller bottoms available (7.5 oz.) for extended service intervals.

- I'll see about digging up some photos of what exactly we're mounting to there, but there are two threaded studs on the firewall that we're utilizing. One is a support mount for the ECU, and the other is mount for the wiring loom that runs along the firewall. We made sure to include some new hardware for a secure mount, along with ensuring that we're not interfering with the OEM setup.

Just need to know if the 2.7 version will be out soon?

2.7L kit is also in the works! We'll have both a PCV-side only along with a dual can setup!

As I understand it the 2.7L has both port, and direct injection. So, there's no need for a catch can as the port injection will keep everything nice a clean. I guess that would also be contingent on the use of top tier fuel with cleaning additives. IMHO

While it does take a little longer to develop, vehicle's using port-injection (like the dual injected setup on the 2.7L) carbon build-up can still be a factor. Yes, the additional port-injection does mitigate the issue, but the blow-by can still cause issues down the line

do these have issues freezing up in sub zero Canadian climate?

Condensation can freeze in there if the temps drop low enough, but it also melts quick too. Just make sure to let everything warm up properly and you shouldn't encounter any issues.

For those of us who will be using a ford dealership for general maintenance would this catch can change how they need to perform oil changes or is the catch can totally passive and just needs to be emptied by me every 5k miles?

Correct, there wouldn't be any alterations to other maintenance items, IE oil changes, etc. After installation, the only service required would be to empty the can at its determined service interval.

It is not totally passive, the catch can itself has to be emptied.

Some additional gotchas:

• Most catch cans are illegal in the state of California due to CARB regulations.
• It is not clear whether a catch can will impact your Ford factory warranty. My gut says that if you ever have an issue with your PCV system, any warranty claims related to that will definitely be denied. For other issues that likely don't have a direct relationship... you can probably get away with it.

Great items to point out! Definitely double-check with your local regulations before installing. Also, it's recommended that you also contact your dealership before installing any aftermarket components since it's at the dealership level where warranty claims are honored. From our experience, some dealers are much more open and accepting to modifications than others, so it's always a good move to get in contact with them as well regarding aftermarket upgrades.


-Nick

 

[Zeebo390]

Catch cans stop a bunch of oil mist from going back to the intake system, where it gunks up intake valves in GDI engines since they doesn’t get washed with fuel. Each of the 30 or so GDI engines I’ve looked in had bad intake valve deposits, even in as little as 30,000 miles. This is mainly a concern for the 2.3, since the 2.7 has port and direct injection.

But you still have to be careful with catch cans for 2 reasons, especially if you’re going to hook them back up to the PCV system instead of (illegally) road drafting.

1. Flow restriction: I don’t know about this one, but many cheap cans I’ve seen have sintered metal filters which can restrict the blow-by gas, especially when they inevitably plug up with gunk. That can pressure up the crankcase, leading to oil leaks (valve cover, front cover) and increased oil dilution (since less fuel evaporates out of the oil at high crankcase pressure). Ideally I’d want a catch can supplier to install a pressure recorder on the oil cap and record a few hot laps with/without the can installed to make sure the crankcase doesn’t pressure up compared to the factory PCV. But on a baffle-only design that shouldn’t be as big of an issue.

2. Plumbing: turbos can have 2 PCV paths. Why? Normally PCV gets sucked out by intake manifold vacuum. But blow-by is the highest when turbos are on boost, and crankcase gas can’t get into a boosted manifold. So a Kia Stinger V6, for example, has one PCV line to the manifold and another that goes in after the MAF sensor but ahead of the turbos. If you only hook up to the manifold PCV line, you’re only getting a portion of the blowby. I’ve seen pics where guys splice all the hoses onto a single catch can but not sure how well it works. If you are working a system that goes back in ahead of the turbo you MUST keep it regularly drained - you don’t want to destroy the compressor by puking slugs of oil over when you drop the hammer.

In other words make sure you know what you’re installing, where it’s supposed to go, and keep it drained. Otherwise I can see where Ford could argue about voiding the warranty with a bad installation.

 

[Rick Astley]

Hey @Mishimoto , just got an email that my order was cancelled because you're out of stock on a product you haven't made yet.

Not sure if all the 2.3 Bronco pre-orders are having this same issue. Just letting you know here but I went through formal channels outlined in your email for resolution of the order.

 

[Mishimoto]

How does it mount? Existing hardware? Any drilling involved?

Here's what we're looking at for the mounting points NOTE: This is from our 2.7L since that's currently in the process of having the PCV catch can installed. The only real difference between the two is the ECU, which the left side stud is a little shorter on the 2.3L, which we accounted for:

-Nick

 

[Mishimoto]

Hey @Mishimoto , just got an email that my order was cancelled because you're out of stock on a product you haven't made yet.

Not sure if all the 2.3 Bronco pre-orders are having this same issue. Just letting you know here but I went through formal channels outlined in your email for resolution of the order.

That's odd! I'll shoot you a PM to grab your order info just to make sure everything is still good to go!

-Nick

 

[BDSteelies]

It is not totally passive, the catch can itself has to be emptied.

Some additional gotchas:

• Most catch cans are illegal in the state of California due to CARB regulations..

Do you have proof/documentation stating that catch cans are illegal in CA? From what I've researched they are specifically excluded on the list below of aftermarket add-ons that are checked for CARB compliance by inspectors.

They may verify that the crankcase gases are routed back to the intake, and not venting to atmosphere, but otherwise shouldn't be an issue.

source: https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/2017_Smog_Check_Manual.pdf

• It is not clear whether a catch can will impact your Ford factory warranty. My gut says that if you ever have an issue with your PCV system, any warranty claims related to that will definitely be denied. For other issues that likely don't have a direct relationship... you can probably get away with it.

Agreed this is kind of a gray area, although I did get confirmation from mountune USA that catch cans do not void the factory warranty. They do aftermarket mods almost exclusively on Ford vehicles. Some of their mods are actually warrantied by Ford directly, which may be why they're able to claim this for the catch cans and may not be the case for all vendors.

 

[wrbix]

Your website is not playing nice.
Cannot search via Ford Bronco and really do not want to scroll thru all the catch can pages to find it (on iPad if that matters)

 

[Blksn955.o]

Ordereded

 

[RagnarKon]

Do you have proof/documentation stating that catch cans are illegal in CA? From what I've researched they are specifically excluded on the list below of aftermarket add-ons that are checked for CARB compliance by inspectors.

They may verify that the crankcase gases are routed back to the intake, and not venting to atmosphere, but otherwise shouldn't be an issue.

source: https://www.bar.ca.gov/pdf/2017_Smog_Check_Manual.pdf

Oh, my bad. I was not very specific at all, and I should have been.

Catch cans are legal in California if the have passed CARB's testing standards and have been assigned a CARB EO. If they do not have a CARB EO, they are not legal, as they are considered an aftermarket modification to the factory PCV system that is not specifically exempted. Here is an example of an air/oil separator that has received a CARB EO.

Many vendors (like UPR) won't even ship you a catch can you live in California. And some will only ship you the catch can if you sign a waiver that says you will only use it on a closed track. I do not know if @Mishimoto has submitted their catch can for CARB testing or not, I assume not... because if it is usually the it'll say "California compliant" and list the EO numbers right on the website. But maybe that is something Nick can clear up for us.

---

NOW... on a practical level, it depends on what shop you go to and if the inspector has a brain. The purpose of the PCV visual inspection is to check to ensure that crankcase vapors do not get ejected into the atmosphere. Obviously most catch cans will not do that, and thus in many cases they will pass visual inspection.

I've also seen situations where catch cans will fail, but an oil separator on a similar car mysteriously will not fail. I assume the difference is that most oil separators bolt directly to the engine and any junk collected by the oil separator drains back into the crankcase and thus it is considered part of the engine? Maybe? With a catch can, that junk is collected externally to the engine rather than within the engine. That may be enough to trigger some inspectors. It's hard to know honestly... depends which inspector you get.

 

[Rick Astley]

That's odd! I'll shoot you a PM to grab your order info just to make sure everything is still good to go!

-Nick

@Mishimoto customer service sorted it out and i'm in line for a 2nd round batch. Won't have a Bronco for who knows how long, so it's not a problem.

Thanks for helping me out!

 

[BDSteelies]

Oh, my bad. I was not very specific at all, and I should have been.

Catch cans are legal in California if the have passed CARB's testing standards and have been assigned a CARB EO. If they do not have a CARB EO, they are not legal, as they are considered an aftermarket modification to the factory PCV system that is not specifically exempted. Here is an example of an air/oil separator that has received a CARB EO.

Many vendors (like UPR) won't even ship you a catch can you live in California. And some will only ship you the catch can if you sign a waiver that says you will only use it on a closed track. I do not know if @Mishimoto has submitted their catch can for CARB testing or not, I assume not... because if it is usually the it'll say "California compliant" and list the EO numbers right on the website. But maybe that is something Nick can clear up for us.

---

NOW... on a practical level, it depends on what shop you go to and if the inspector has a brain. The purpose of the PCV visual inspection is to check to ensure that crankcase vapors do not get ejected into the atmosphere. Obviously most catch cans will not do that, and thus in many cases they will pass visual inspection.

I've also seen situations where catch cans will fail, but an oil separator on a similar car mysteriously will not fail. I assume the difference is that most oil separators bolt directly to the engine and any junk collected by the oil separator drains back into the crankcase and thus it is considered part of the engine? Maybe? With a catch can, that junk is collected externally to the engine rather than within the engine. That may be enough to trigger some inspectors. It's hard to know honestly... depends which inspector you get.

Thanks that’s good info! I was interpreting that table I posted as meaning that catch cans do not require an EO to be compliant, and inspectors would only fail for the items marked as “EO required”. Maybe that’s only the case for pcv oil separators? Didn’t realize there was a difference to be honest… Maybe getting a bit off on a tangent for this thread though haha

@Mishimoto can you confirm if your kit is CARB compliant and able to be sold in CA?

 

[Tonka Bronka]

Why Otiker clamps mis matched with worm drives? Nothing says add on like an over sized wormy. I will do some research on this as I’m all about miles per dollar. Thanks.

 

[redone17]

It’s worth mentioning that the oil separator hose that needs to be removed to install the fittings on your hoses is a big ol’ pain in the d!ck to access.

You need to remove the driver wheel and it helps to remove some of the pins in the wheel guard. Still it’s not at all visible and not easily accessible. You have to remove the fittings by feel and they have a very specific locking mechanism. I tried for a solid hour and gave up (it was also 20°F). But, just learned how those locking fittings work. So, I’ll give it another attempt soon.

 

[BattleBornBronco]

All I can say is thanks for getting this out quick. I already have 8k on my build and am already worried about long term build up. Tango Yankee @Mishimoto

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