2.7 not as responsive as a 2.3

[not on the rug]

I think you may have missed my point.. Not worth my time... because it isn't, I'm not looking for a sports car with 35's. I'm looking for something that'll tow a trailer, and go when I hit the gas. That's why I could care less about getting a tune.

I don't think you understand what's actually happening. The sport mode will change the throttle response and give you what you're looking for. The issue is not the turbos. It's the way ford programs it to operate in "normal" mode.

A tune would increase hp and tq and you can also tune the transmission shifting points. The ford ProCal tune (safe and warrantied) would improve all of those things for you and be noticeable.

Sport mode and/or the ProCal tune doesn't make it a sports car in any way.

Sounds like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can literally solve your problem with the twist of your wrist and/or a few hundred bucks on a ProCal.

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[KillerPenz]

I don't think you understand what's actually happening. The sport mode will change the throttle response and give you what you're looking for. The issue is not the turbos. It's the way ford programs it to operate in "normal" mode.

A tune would increase hp and tq and you can also tune the transmission shifting points. The ford ProCal tune (safe and warrantied) would improve all of those things for you and be noticeable.

Sport mode and/or the ProCal tune doesn't make it a sports car in any way.

Sounds like you're cutting off your nose to spite your face. You can literally solve your problem with the twist of your wrist and/or a few hundred bucks on a ProCal.

No point missed...
1. Sport mode considerably sucks down more gas.
2. Tried Sport mode in the past, stomped pedal... truck accelerated (or lack there of), about the same as Normal mode, just slightly more responsive.
3. Installed pedal commander... still turbo lag.
4. The 2.7l is a little bitch of a motor. The 3.7l I had in my Mustang V6 at least moved when I stomped the pedal.

In the end, these motors should've been put in a Bronco Sport, or an Escape.

No one will ever convince me that a stock turbo engine (4 or 6 cyl.) is something good to drive. We didn't buy Bronco's that drive like a VW or Honda. Some buy for hitting trails, others bought for the utility of it. If I had an extra $60k burning a hole in my pocket, 1st thing I'd do is a V8 conversion.

 

[not on the rug]

No point missed...
1. Sport mode considerably sucks down more gas.
2. Tried Sport mode in the past, stomped pedal... truck accelerated (or lack there of), about the same as Normal mode, just slightly more responsive.
3. Installed pedal commander... still turbo lag.
4. The 2.7l is a little bitch of a motor. The 3.7l I had in my Mustang V6 at least moved when I stomped the pedal.

In the end, these motors should've been put in a Bronco Sport, or an Escape.

No one will ever convince me that a stock turbo engine (4 or 6 cyl.) is something good to drive. We didn't buy Bronco's that drive like a VW or Honda. Some buy for hitting trails, others bought for the utility of it. If I had an extra $60k burning a hole in my pocket, 1st thing I'd do is a V8 conversion.

It sounds like the Bronco isn't the vehicle for you.

 

[KillerPenz]

It sounds like the Bronco isn't the vehicle for you.

This is my 4th. I love the Bronco. Hate the engine. No need to worry about whether or not a vehicle I purchased is for me or not, I'm old enough to make my own decisions. But thanks for your concern.

 

[not on the rug]

This is my 4th. I love the Bronco. Hate the engine. No need to worry about whether or not a vehicle I purchased is for me or not, I'm old enough to make my own decisions. But thanks for your concern.

You're also old enough to know that you could easily solve all of this complaining with a flick of your wrist or a simple procal tune but you'd ragher complain about it incessantly and get fussy about it when people try to help you. Going to add you to my ignore list now and move on with my life.

 

[Snacktime]

I would say no... in theory yes, but in reality no.

I have a 2.7l BaseSquatch (4.70 gears), my kid has a 2.3l Big Bend (3.73 gears). Both of us are running 35's. I swear his is alot quicker off the line, and I blame it on the turbo lag of the 2.7l.

I know I'm just a broken record over here, but fuck the turbos, fuck getting a tune, just give us a V8 and call it a day. We're not out racing anyone, just want power (torque) when we need it.

The 3.73 gears make more boost in the first 2 gears and it stays in boost longer. In town driving pulling away from a light it's extremely noticeable compared to SAS vehicles.

 

[KillerPenz]

You're also old enough to know that you could easily solve all of this complaining with a flick of your wrist or a simple procal tune but you'd ragher complain about it incessantly and get fussy about it when people try to help you. Going to add you to my ignore list now and move on with my life.

Aww shucks, a fellow (albeit ignorant) Jerseyan put me on ignore, after starting with me... How will I ever go on with life? Should've known based on your list of vehicles.

And yes, flick of the wrist to a useless Sport Mode is always the right choice I assume?

The 3.73 gears make more boost in the first 2 gears and it stays in boost longer. In town driving pulling away from a light it's extremely noticeable compared to SAS vehicles.

Thank you @Snacktime, that response makes more sense. So, turbo lag it is.

 

[Brian_B]

Thank you @Snacktime, that response makes more sense. So, turbo lag it is.

Think he's implying it's the gearing, not the turbo.

3.73 will accelerate faster than 4.70 - notably faster, as long as you aren't too heavy or have too large of wheels on the vehicle for the engine to turn and push. The tradeoff is less torque at the wheel, and you can get in the situation where your acceleration is limited by the amount of engine torque you can get through the gears to accelerate the mass of the vehicle and turn the diameter of the tires.

4.70 will have more torque at the wheel, but the engine will have to shift a lot more often as it tries to accelerate. You just run out of RPM room / hit the redline/shift points as you try to accelerate up.

 

[KillerPenz]

Think he's implying it's the gearing, not the turbo.

3.73 will accelerate faster than 4.70 - notably faster, as long as you aren't too heavy or have too large of wheels on the vehicle for the engine to turn and push. The tradeoff is less torque at the wheel, and you can get in the situation where your acceleration is limited by the amount of engine torque you can get through the gears to accelerate the mass of the vehicle and turn the diameter of the tires.

4.70 will have more torque at the wheel, but the engine will have to shift a lot more often as it tries to accelerate. You just run out of RPM room / hit the redline/shift points as you try to accelerate up.

When he said the 3.73 gears make more boost, I took that as the turbo spooling, creating more boost.

I don't believe it's a shifting thing either. If I were to simplify just for myself, Go with 3.73 gears if you want less acceleration, better gas mileage, go with 4.70 gears if you want better acceleration, and less gas mileage. As I stated earlier, the 3.73 gears & 2.3l accelerate much better than the 4.70 gears & 2.7l.

Which brings me back to turbo lag. In the end, it is what it is and I'll deal with it. Feel bad for hijacking the thread.

 

[Brian_B]

When he said the 3.73 gears make more boost, I took that as the turbo spooling, creating more boost.

I don't believe it's a shifting thing either. If I were to simplify just for myself, Go with 3.73 gears if you want less acceleration, better gas mileage, go with 4.70 gears if you want better acceleration, and less gas mileage. As I stated earlier, the 3.73 gears & 2.3l accelerate much better than the 4.70 gears & 2.7l.

Which brings me back to turbo lag. In the end, it is what it is and I'll deal with it. Feel bad for hijacking the thread.

Well, just in theory let's say we have the same engine here, and two different gear trains. Just to simplify things. The engine is the same - same turbos, same tuning, same fuel, same everything. Just for this theoretical example here.

With the higher gearing (lower gear ratio number) - the engine has to work harder to spin the tires. There is less torque multiplication being done by the gears, so the engine has to provide more net torque to spin the tires and push the vehicle.

More torque and power required - the engine will develop more boost in order to do that - so long as it isn't lagged so hard it can't get the RPM up in the first place.

Get a low enough gearing (higher gear ratio) and the engine won't even have to get into boost at all because it has enough low end torque without it, by virtue of gear multiplication. But you wind out the engine very fast and have to shift more often.

Go even lower in gearing, and you are just rowing through gears (like a heavy duty truck built to carry big loads). The engine could provide more torque to the road, but you just hit the red line before the engine can really get to putting any power to the tires.

There's always a sweet spot, based on engine torque/power, vehicle mass, and tire sizing - where you get just enough torque multiplication from the gears that the engine is riding it's power curve for maximum acceleration without churning through gear shifts or getting over-burdened and lugging out/unable to build boost.

 

[Snacktime]

Its kind of both? The 3.73 gears allow the turbo to spool longer, as you hit 2nd gear there is less boost drop. The other advantage is Turbo work off load, more load they better they build pressure. The 3.73 give more load in lower gears allowing it to work better. Turbo lag is the gap between low boost and high boost, which by definition fits.

The whole mathematics of racing is enigne, transmission and rear end. Most 1/8 mile racers set it up your in top gear at the 1/8th mile mark. 1/4 mile racers are set up for top gear at the 1/4 mile. Goal is max power, least amount of shifts and picking the right rear end ratio to make it all work so you pass the finish line at redline.

3.73 gears vs 4.71 have trade offs, power bands and ratios.

Well, just in theory let's say we have the same engine here, and two different gear trains. Just to simplify things. The engine is the same - same turbos, same tuning, same fuel, same everything. Just for this theoretical example here.

With the higher gearing (lower gear ratio number) - the engine has to work harder to spin the tires. There is less torque multiplication being done by the gears, so the engine has to provide more net torque to spin the tires and push the vehicle.

More torque and power required - the engine will develop more boost in order to do that - so long as it isn't lagged so hard it can't get the RPM up in the first place.

Get a low enough gearing (higher gear ratio) and the engine won't even have to get into boost at all because it has enough low end torque without it, by virtue of gear multiplication. But you wind out the engine very fast and have to shift more often.

ahhh he beat me to it....

 

[Boostedblues]

I would say no... in theory yes, but in reality no.

I have a 2.7l BaseSquatch (4.70 gears), my kid has a 2.3l Big Bend (3.73 gears). Both of us are running 35's. I swear his is alot quicker off the line, and I blame it on the turbo lag of the 2.7l.

I know I'm just a broken record over here, but fuck the turbos, fuck getting a tune, just give us a V8 and call it a day. We're not out racing anyone, just want power (torque) when we need it.

Oh.. I am actually out here racing my stuff. My 2.7 in my Bronco and my 2.3 in my RS are great. Night night coyote

 

[Ukko Wildtrak]

It's not worth my time to put it in Sport mode, which mind you I have in the past..... and it was only slightly quicker. Still would lose to the 2.3l.

And it's not like I'm driving in a Mustang, I don't need to do 0-60 in 3.4 seconds. But if you mash the pedal, it doesn't move. If you're slowing down to turn and then go to hit the pedal, it does nothing.

All I'm saying is, the 2.7l is a little bitch engine. Give me a simple V8 with 320+ hp and over 400 lb/ft of torque, perfect for what i want. Get rid of the useless 10 speed transmission, drop down to a 7 speed, or even the good old E4OD. Something that if I stomp on the gas pedal, it goes. My older Broncos ('84, '93, '94), two of them had 351's. what did they have, 210hp or some shit? Those would move when you hit the gas at least.

I do agree with you on one point and that's the number of gears! 10 speeds is crazy in this application, esp condensed to a 0-100 mph range, haha.
On the other points, I think you just have a case of spring nostalgia. The 2.7 gives ~250 lb-ft torque at 2500rpm and 300 at 2750! If you want that 90's Bronco experience from your new one, you would have to run 87 octane, put the new Bronco in Eco Mode, and take off in 2nd gear every time. I had a '90 302 Bronco and it was a pig compared to this. One piece of experience that I can share is that: it is very easy to trigger traction control on the new bronco and it aggressively pulls power...not always like a hard fuel cut, but certainly a smooth reduction of power that just feels laggy. Also, I forgot to ask if you were on 93 fuel or not. That also makes a difference.

 

[IntlPhotoPilot]

It's interesting that others feel the 2.3l being quicker. I have a 2.7l in my HE, but was recently in a 2.3l BB rental for work.

Driving up in the hills, i felt the 2.3l was a little laggy in comparison to my 2.7l. I felt like the 2.3l in normal reminded me of the 2.7l in eco mode, and the 2.3l in sport felt like the 2.7l in normal mode.

I'm wondering if there was something else at play.

 

[KillerPenz]

I do agree with you on one point and that's the number of gears! 10 speeds is crazy in this application, esp condensed to a 0-100 mph range, haha.
On the other points, I think you just have a case of spring nostalgia. The 2.7 gives ~250 lb-ft torque at 2500rpm and 300 at 2750! If you want that 90's Bronco experience from your new one, you would have to run 87 octane, put the new Bronco in Eco Mode, and take off in 2nd gear every time. I had a '90 302 Bronco and it was a pig compared to this. One piece of experience that I can share is that: it is very easy to trigger traction control on the new bronco and it aggressively pulls power...not always like a hard fuel cut, but certainly a smooth reduction of power that just feels laggy. Also, I forgot to ask if you were on 93 fuel or not. That also makes a difference.

With these gas prices? And with this being a truck and not required, I don't bother with 93 octane. I've run a few tanks on it, never saw a great improvement and figured it was a waste of money.

As for you 90's with the 302, that engine had nothing on the 351. No the 351 wasn't a rocket, but man it blew away the 302's they used back then in the Bronco. My '93 had a 302, and yes, that engine was a dog for sure. I believe my '84 with a carbureted 351 would've smoked my 302 any day of the work... and that had the added sound of the secondaries opening up! Sometimes it's the simple things in life that make the world of difference.

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