ADM is alive and well

[OuterJersey]

My Bronco was the worse financial purchase I ever made and I paid sticker minus price protection. I usually buy vehicles 2 years old off lease after the first sucker took the bath.
Automobiles are depreciating assets. Period.
if you want to be financially brilliant automobiles are the wrong market..buy stocks.
I know someone that bought $310 worth of stock in the 1979 and the company went private and just sent them a check for 986k dollars. A few, but not many automobiles can do that.
Buy vehicles for transportation and personal pleasure..anything else it’s a losing proposition.

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[RHeinz]

You've clearly done very well financially and that's great but you're still an idiot for paying ADM. You want what you want, and you're willing to pay a premium to get it when you want it (now).

Except for the IDIOT part, this is pretty much the definition of open markets and supply and demand.

Clearly, Ford could have raised the MSRP of the 21 MY and 22 MY (and perhaps 23?) Broncos by as much as $5K, and eased their manufacturing and constraint issues and at the same time would not have had to raise prices in 22 and 23. Clearly, Ford Corporate mis-judged the demand and left money on the table which some dealers picked up. But, what if it had flopped?????

 

[MadMan4BamaNATL]

I'm a bit torn on your reply here @MadMan4BamaNATL . I greatly appreciate the sentiment to not burn bridges, but also strongly disagree with much you've posted. I've read it many times and don't think I've misunderstand the words nor the connotations.



Its not really about inflation. We live in a massively stratified and wealth inequal country (and world). Nice things, especially vehicles, which in this case are essentially toys (no one needs a Bronco for work or for life, but they sure want them...) can cost a lot of money. Is it justifiable for those who can't afford one (or is morally unwilling to pay market price (aka ADM) to be angry at those who can/will? I say firmly, not. Save more, get a raise, move, get more education and a higher paying job, relax your morals, give yourself a one-time "hall pass", whatever. I can't afford a private jet but I'm not mad at those who can. I don't blame fellow mountain bikers for $90 bike tires. I despise the $15 burritos everywhere around me, but realize fellow burrito connoisseurs didn't make this price happen. When I don't want to spring for such a burrito I get a much less expensive Subway. It's just inflation and yes it sucks for just about all of us. Group X did not "do this" to group Y.



You can't be serious. People who use their recreationally focused vehicles in a certain way should be entitled to cut in line somehow and get said vehicles before others?

I can't even begin to list all of the ways this is wrong and unnecessary. What qualifies as a "wheeler" - how difficult of a trail you can complete, how many times a week or month you off-road, how much you post your adventures on social media, who gets to decide who is and who is not a "wheeler". Do you really think it is better for FMC or Dealers to have this kind of ambiguously preferential (and completely non-open market) treatment?

This is downright un-American and even borderline dystopian.



If only the world were so simple, "wealthy consumers" stand on this side and "poor wheelers" over on the other side. Do you really see such narrow and boolean slots for people? I certainly know and observe, that like the rest of society, there is no singular wealth level for wheelers.

It just keeps getting better, in this neat little boolean world you have "observed", wheelers don't pay ADMs and those darn "line jumpin' " consumers do? Such nonsense. I am a wheeler and I paid ADM (well I actually have not purchased yet, but do have a firm contract and build date). Why did I pay - crap in large part to have more fun sooner. More wheeling, more sooner, for all! I also have observed a lot of wheelers who also paid ADMs.

We should definitely apply much of this to the world of sports cars too right? Non professional track day enthusiasts should get their Ferrari's at less than market price and should jump ahead in line ahead of wealthy people who do not do track days (or heck at least an autocross per year). Goodbye sports car market...

The more I hear here, the more I hear child like whining because the Richie Rich's "took away" some folks ability to afford a toy (literally) and damnit - because I/we enjoy some activities one can do in such toys, I/we should be able to jump the line and should get discounts below market pricing.

Rich, here, literally.

A lot of the stances on this ADM issue are dug in since the clock can’t be wound back between who paid ADM or jumped the line and those of us that did neither, but will clarify some quick statements.

I’ve been on this forum since 2020 and stated many of these things several times and will again. When I and others say “Wheeler”, we mean those who actually do things outdoors.

Bronco isn’t a road trip car, or necessarily comfortable for a family who need creature comforts, it’s an off-road focused vehicle, period. There is a lot of tech for upper trims, there are nice features such as removable roof which does sound different and cool to the average consumer, but overall, it’s Spartan, harsh, loud, and thus perfect for those of us who spend time off pavement.

So yeah, the Bronco was built for wheelers dude, not consumers. The Explorer is for consumers.

Also, you keep referencing rich, your wealth, etc in somewhat subtle tones, but not enough to hide how you feel. I’m not about to get into what my accounts look like, but I have a pretty loaded Bronco and another SUV that’s about the same, so guess I’m in the haves camp, but I also don’t care, because my posts aren’t about me personally.

I take up for the normal people who seem to no longer have a voice these days; you even referenced them. It doesn’t matter what I have, I want everyone to be as happy as possible and what I know is this, for the people I tend to love the most; those who live and are from more rural areas, they tend to not be wealthy as city folk, but what’s wrong with that? Rural areas used to be affordable and areas of more free expression.

When we are in a world of $75K pickups and Broncos that are about the same, a person earning less than $15hr literally can no longer live and enjoy things. They used to be able to own a truck or Bronco and now that’s very hard and it’s not fair, so yes, I post in defense of the normal guy. Hell, this is a Ford for god’s sake and ironically, rich guys are buying normal guy cars and trucks to look like the very people they want to be like, but somehow seem to hurt and hate when too close to them. It pains me to no end to watch these effects.

So, inflation and ADM have hurt the normal guy much more than you or I and that can, and always has led to very big problems throughout history. And guys who sound like you should always remember, you can’t hurt those who are already down very much, but you, you have a lot to lose my friend, so be careful of condescending to normal folks, they’ve got you far outnumbered.

I want to see Broncos in the hands of those who deserve them and will use them proper. I meant every word I’ve written.

 

[baozebub]

I didn't read all the replies. I wonder, has anybody thought about the dealer storage costs?

When I ordered my Bronco, I came in to do the paperwork the day it arrived, and asked them to hold it a couple of days before I could get my brother to drive me back to pick it up. Not only did they not incur storage costs, but they didn't have to deal with the costs of holding a car until someone paid them for it. These are real costs.

I think a dealer that has a Bronco on the lot is totally within reason to charge a DM, especially if it's an in demand configuration.

 

[jrm5723]

It's all about what the market will bear. Some of these ADM fees are ridicules, but if someone wants a vehicle bad enough, they'll pay it...

 

[Brettlil17]

My dealer told me the beatings will continue until consumer morale improves.

 

[swamp2]

I want to see Broncos in the hands of those who deserve them and will use them proper. I meant every word I’ve written.

Thank you for maintaining and supporting a better tone here. Its clear we share a passion not only for wheeling but for this forum too. Cheers.

There is no such thing as "jumping in line". FMC screwed up and misled people about how allocations work. We all (almost all) now know dealership size is critical (just as it's always been) to getting a supply constrained vehicle. Also ADMs just aren't cutting in line. The only line is at each dealer and they manage that how they see fit.

Yes, surely, people who maybe aspire to wheel but don't buy Broncos. I don't care about this, but obviously you do. Not sure how many times I need to remind, this is not a necessary commodity or even necessary vehicle. It's a toy for wheelers and a nice daily for others. I slso disagree with the belief that a Bronco is too utilitarian to be a daily driver for a non wheeler. Front and rear cameras, adaptive cruise, Copilot 360, large central display, heated seats and steering wheel, etc. No not standard for all builds. If certainly makes a just fine road trip vehicle. In short I still don't understand the point here. People can and do buy vehicles for a lot of reasons. No one has the right to special treatment due to a nebulous membership in a recreational group. Furthermore no one or no group can justifiably blame another nebulous group for them being unable to buy a vehicle (toy). Class warfare, when it's non even a class!

I didn't mention anything about my wealth, except in a prior response to being personally attacked for making stupid and ridiculous financial decisions. My defense raised a completely fair question.

Although not entirely relevant, but I'm not your "bad guy". None of my extended family are wealthy. My politics (whoops going to get banned for that word...) and voting are driven by the desire to help those most in need. I volunteer. The big companies and fat cats get way more than their "share" and don't need help. I'm pro Union. IMO, those priveledged enough to be shopping for a new $40-$50k TOY don't need my advocacy nor support.

Surely inflation hurts our most vulnerable. But again please reread the immediately prior sentence.

I've currently got a single, temporarily homeless mom and son living in my living room for a month or so or maybe whatever it takes. I get it. I'm human and again not your, nor your "average wheeler"s enemy nor agent of harm.

 

[FloridaBurgBronco]

Option A, if you don't care about color, trim or options then maybe you can find one at MSRP.

Option B, if you have the money, it's your money.

Option C, Order the Bronco you want. Have the color removed as is no longer available, remove options to get it built. Wait 2 or 3 three years and hopefully get price protection and special offers.

Option D. Order what you want, wait for a couple of years to have Ford cancel cancel your order. Lose price protection. Start back at Option A. Pay more than ADM was when you first ordered.

Waiting sounds like a great idea but you really don't know how much time you have to wait. Your friends will say, "He never got that Bronco he was always talking about. "

Jerry, yes you understand those are the choices I had, A wasn't going to work since I didn't want to pay a crap load of money and get a sub-standard Bronco, lots did at MSRP and now have a Bronco they don't truly desire. I considered C, which maybe I would have gotten this year and maybe I could have found a dealer doing price protection, but the MSRP's went up a little, as well as the interest rates. D is sort of like C, I mean I saw plenty of people wait and still have to switch orders and settle for something less than they want. Seems like a crappy way to dump $51,000. Which by the way, none of the people suggesting I'm stupid have found a Badlands under $51000 as of yet, so there's that.

 

[FloridaBurgBronco]

This is ADM we're talking about right? So this isn't a great Ford idea where they saw it thru to production or even selling your house for market value. ADM is the dealer inflating the price so this would be like you listing your house for $300k and the realtor tacking on a $100k market fee that they pocket when your house sells.

Your anology doesn't really work man, I gotta tell you. As a realtor myself, we don't own the product, we are brokers. We work for the people that hire us the owners. Now if you'd like to use realtors that work for a builder, your anology holds up a little better, but still not good. Appraisals are like MSRP's, they are simply an "opinion of value" just like an MSRP. Please read with me, Manufactured SUGGESTED Retail Price. Please note the word Suggested. Same thing with a List price on a house, it isn't the price, it's the suggested price. Very few houses sell for exactly the list price, they sell either higher or lower all the time. Same exact thing with MSRP's. Very rarely do people pay the MSRP, they get them for lower (lower demand vehicle) or pay higher (higher demand vehicle). I have never paid MSRP, most vehicles I have paid less for, doesn't mean I got a deal, simply means the vehicle was in lower demand. Same thing with house. People will pay over the appraised value on occasion for a house that is unique or difficult to find or duplicate. We also often have houses that a recent appraisal was done and it's listed under that value. It's because in a market, price is always fluid.

Let me take your anology further, if Ford slapped an additional $15000 on the MSRP, I can almost guarantee nobody would be paying MSRP, everyone would pay less, because their increase in MSRP would outpace the market price. Again, same thing with real estate, a neighborhood can be trending up at 5% increase, but if a seller slaps a 7%, they may get some activity, but if they slap a 15% over market on their house, no one will come see it other than to try to figure out why it has a crazy price. In addition, if no one paid the MSRP after a $15K increase, every one person on this thread would be saying they got a good deal because the Manufacturer said they did

 

[JerryC]

Jerry, yes you understand those are the choices I had, A wasn't going to work since I didn't want to pay a crap load of money and get a sub-standard Bronco, lots did at MSRP and now have a Bronco they don't truly desire. I considered C, which maybe I would have gotten this year and maybe I could have found a dealer doing price protection, but the MSRP's went up a little, as well as the interest rates. D is sort of like C, I mean I saw plenty of people wait and still have to switch orders and settle for something less than they want. Seems like a crappy way to dump $51,000. Which by the way, none of the people suggesting I'm stupid have found a Badlands under $51000 as of yet, so there's that.

You bring up a point that I forgot. For option D, higher interest rates.

I've said this on the board before, I paid ADM almost a year ago. In my case I wanted Cyber Orange, which was my original order and CO was removed for 23, and after searching for months for CO Loaded 2dr Badlands none were to be had for anything close to MSRP. My search area was the entire lower 48. So I wrangled a little off the ADM , got some extra stuff thrown into the deal and got what I wanted. Since then the interest rate has gone up 4% and MSRP has had a couple of price increases.

My original order from 11/21 is still in limbo and it's not the color I wanted, but I expect it will be cancelled regardless as Ford decides it can't be built this model year.

Could I have waited and got a Bronco eventually, yes. Would it have been what I wanted, no. Would it in the end cost less, no or not by enough to matter.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the auto worker strike. If they stay out any length of time I think ADM will be back with a vengeance.

 

[Lowcountry Bronco]

Your anology doesn't really work man, I gotta tell you. As a realtor myself, we don't own the product, we are brokers. We work for the people that hire us the owners. Now if you'd like to use realtors that work for a builder, your anology holds up a little better, but still not good. Appraisals are like MSRP's, they are simply an "opinion of value" just like an MSRP. Please read with me, Manufactured SUGGESTED Retail Price. Please note the word Suggested. Same thing with a List price on a house, it isn't the price, it's the suggested price. Very few houses sell for exactly the list price, they sell either higher or lower all the time. Same exact thing with MSRP's. Very rarely do people pay the MSRP, they get them for lower (lower demand vehicle) or pay higher (higher demand vehicle). I have never paid MSRP, most vehicles I have paid less for, doesn't mean I got a deal, simply means the vehicle was in lower demand. Same thing with house. People will pay over the appraised value on occasion for a house that is unique or difficult to find or duplicate. We also often have houses that a recent appraisal was done and it's listed under that value. It's because in a market, price is always fluid.

Let me take your anology further, if Ford slapped an additional $15000 on the MSRP, I can almost guarantee nobody would be paying MSRP, everyone would pay less, because their increase in MSRP would outpace the market price. Again, same thing with real estate, a neighborhood can be trending up at 5% increase, but if a seller slaps a 7%, they may get some activity, but if they slap a 15% over market on their house, no one will come see it other than to try to figure out why it has a crazy price. In addition, if no one paid the MSRP after a $15K increase, every one person on this thread would be saying they got a good deal because the Manufacturer said they did

Not to be a dick but honestly over hearing people give me their explanation. I didn't pay ADM and waited 3 years, my loss or gain however you want to look at it. Those that did can justify to themselves or the crowd, don't care but it won't be me.

 

[FloridaBurgBronco]

You bring up a point that I forgot. For option D, higher interest rates.

I've said this on the board before, I paid ADM almost a year ago. In my case I wanted Cyber Orange, which was my original order and CO was removed for 23, and after searching for months for CO Loaded 2dr Badlands none were to be had for anything close to MSRP. My search area was the entire lower 48. So I wrangled a little off the ADM , got some extra stuff thrown into the deal and got what I wanted. Since then the interest rate has gone up 4% and MSRP has had a couple of price increases.

My original order from 11/21 is still in limbo and it's not the color I wanted, but I expect it will be cancelled regardless as Ford decides it can't be built this model year.

Could I have waited and got a Bronco eventually, yes. Would it have been what I wanted, no. Would it in the end cost less, no or not by enough to matter.

It will be interesting to see what happens with the auto worker strike. If they stay out any length of time I think ADM will be back with a vengeance.

Yes, agreed, it's not like I stumbled into my Bronco without thinking and figuring through all the options and I certainly didn't want to get stuck with a Big Bend, which I could have had for MSRP, but open axles, street tires, no skids, etc, etc, if I wanted a mall crawler, plenty were out there. I started late in the game, wanting one back in May/June last year and one came up that was perfect in August, over MSRP, but still under all that I saw for the trim I wanted. I wanted a 2 door, manual and a Badlands, they weren't easy to find. And yes the interest rate was another issue, as they seem to be climbing, plus again, if I waited, the MSRP's rise every year anyway, so I'd still have to pay higer amounts. It's not like there was one sitting on the lot at MSRP and one at $5K over and I choose the $5K over one, I most certainly would have chosen the cheaper one. But again, a BB or OBX was not my thing.

 

[2fast4u]

My Bronco was the worse financial purchase I ever made and I paid sticker minus price protection. I usually buy vehicles 2 years old off lease after the first sucker took the bath.
Automobiles are depreciating assets. Period.
if you want to be financially brilliant automobiles are the wrong market..buy stocks.
I know someone that bought $310 worth of stock in the 1979 and the company went private and just sent them a check for 986k dollars. A few, but not many automobiles can do that.
Buy vehicles for transportation and personal pleasure..anything else it’s a losing proposition.

For sure. You take a big hit on Cars even at MSRP. Like you I got my 2023 Wildtrak about 7k under Sticker with X-plan pricing and price protection. even then I see it as taking a loss for sure but a fun one Be smart with your money and you will be happy in the long run. Some people call it being cheap I never finance or keep a balance on credit cards if I can help it. I don't like paying interest. but I love being paid interest in the bank

 

[2fast4u]

Jerry, yes you understand those are the choices I had, A wasn't going to work since I didn't want to pay a crap load of money and get a sub-standard Bronco, lots did at MSRP and now have a Bronco they don't truly desire. I considered C, which maybe I would have gotten this year and maybe I could have found a dealer doing price protection, but the MSRP's went up a little, as well as the interest rates. D is sort of like C, I mean I saw plenty of people wait and still have to switch orders and settle for something less than they want. Seems like a crappy way to dump $51,000. Which by the way, none of the people suggesting I'm stupid have found a Badlands under $51000 as of yet, so there's that.

Yep hard Choices. I waited for my wildtrak as I was picking everything and was going to be more happy that way. My son on the other hand walked on the lot here in Southern California and bought a 2 Door/hard top/Badlands Area 51 at window stick of 43k about 7 mths ago. He is Very happy going that route.

 

[OuterJersey]

For sure. You take a big hit on Cars even at MSRP. Like you I got my 2023 Wildtrak about 7k under Sticker with X-plan pricing and price protection. even then I see it as taking a loss for sure but a fun one Be smart with your money and you will be happy in the long run. Some people call it being cheap I never finance or keep a balance on credit cards if I can help it. I don't like paying interest. but I love being paid interest in the bank

Well you did better than me! I thought they were not honoring X-plan. I paid 2021 price for a 2023 vehicle and then -2300 I think for price protection. I like being cheap..it pays in the long run for sure.

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